RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Paul76 on Saturday 11 June 11 11:25 BST (UK)

Title: Birth place info on 1830s forms etc
Post by: Paul76 on Saturday 11 June 11 11:25 BST (UK)
My 3x great grandfather William McKenzie moved to Wigan from Scotland in (I think) the mid-1830s.
Frustratingly he only gives his place of birth as "Scotland", never anything more precise. But another Roots Chatter has found records of a William born north of the border who could be my William.
Now I have to try to establish a connection.
Does anyone know if any documents of the time would have demanded a more exact place of birth than the census did?
He ran the Red Lion pub on The Weind in Wigan town centre and was a stone mason employing seven men at the time of the 1851 census, so surely he must have left a paper trail of some kind... mustn't he?
My other thought is that as he was living somewhere in Upholland at the time of his marriage in 1836 would house deeds be available to view?
Thanks for reading, all information gratefully received.
Paul
Title: Re: Birth place info on 1830s forms etc
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 11 June 11 12:22 BST (UK)
I don't know about records that would show where he was born,but do you have his marriage cert to Anne?

It should show his father's name and maybe a clue as to where he was from.
I'm guessing his dad maybe called John as his oldest son in 1851 is John.

Carol
Title: Re: Birth place info on 1830s forms etc
Post by: Paul76 on Saturday 11 June 11 12:48 BST (UK)
Hi, thanks.
William married pre-certificates, I'm afraid, so no clue there.
I've seen the record of his marriage, he and his wife both live in Upholland but they don't give a precise address.
The potential father in Scotland is called John but I don't want to get carried away until I can find something linking the William in Upholland/Wigan with that family in Scotland.
Title: Re: Birth place info on 1830s forms etc
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 11 June 11 12:53 BST (UK)
That's a shame. I just realised that must be the case when I found the family in 1841 as McKensie in Wigan...........John is 4 and Ann just a babe.

If they survived to later censuses sometimes you get more info,but I'm presuming not?

Carol
Title: Re: Birth place info on 1830s forms etc
Post by: Huckleberry on Saturday 11 June 11 12:54 BST (UK)
More info for followers of the thread

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

Marriage: 20 Jun 1836 St Thomas the Martyr, Upholland, Lancashire, England
William McKinzee - Bachelor of This Parish
Anne Cowley - (X), Spinster of This Parish
    Witness: Frederick Walker; Jas Lindsay
    Married by Banns by: Rev. W. Bird Curate
    Register: Marriages 1813 - 1837, Page 131, Entry 393
    Source: LDS Film 1657546

Their daughter Ann (as per 1841 census detail):

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi
MAKENZIE  Ann
 Mums maiden name COWLEY, 1841. Wigan & Leigh
Title: Re: Birth place info on 1830s forms etc
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 11 June 11 13:01 BST (UK)
What a shame that he didn't get one of his brothers to come down and be a witness  ;)

Carol
Title: Re: Birth place info on 1830s forms etc
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 11 June 11 13:30 BST (UK)
I see that, according to the 1851 census, William was a Victualler.

Maybe there are court records (licence applications?)


1851 census: Reference HO107, Piece 2199, Folio 885, Page 6
Wiend Red Lion, Wigan

McKenzie, William  Head  M  37  Victualler  b Scotland
McKenzie, Anna, Wife  F  32  b Wigan
McKenzie, John  Son  M  13  b Wigan
McKenzie, Anne  Daughter  F  10  b Wigan
McKenzie, Elizabeth  Daughter  F  7  b Wigan
McKenzie, Janet  Daughter  F  5  b Wigan
McKenzie, William  Son  M  2  b Wigan



John is married in 1861, in Wigan, and it looks like his brother William is with him.
Janet is a boarder in St Helens.
Elizabeth is a servant in Wigan.

Possibly father William dies in 1858?
March qtr 1858
Wigan district    vol 8c, page 14
McKenzie, William
Title: Re: Birth place info on 1830s forms etc
Post by: Paul76 on Saturday 11 June 11 13:59 BST (UK)
Yes, he died in January 1858 and is buried in an unmarked grave in Lower Ince cemetery.
Who would have the record of his license and does anyone know what information that would hold?
Title: Re: Birth place info on 1830s forms etc
Post by: mmm67 on Saturday 28 January 12 19:32 GMT (UK)
paul 76 ............. william mckenzie is my 4x grandad how can i get intouch with you?  :)
Title: Re: Birth place info on 1830s forms etc
Post by: carol8353 on Saturday 28 January 12 23:24 GMT (UK)
Paul hasn't been online since last June,but hopefully he will get notified of your message and will reply online.

Welcome to Rootschat by the way.

Once you have made 3 postings you will be able to send him a PM (Personal message)

Regards

Carol
Title: Re: Birth place info on 1830s forms etc
Post by: Paul76 on Monday 07 October 13 09:34 BST (UK)
paul 76 ............. william mckenzie is my 4x grandad how can i get intouch with you?  :)


mmm67 - I'm back on the site now and would be happy to get in touch and compare notes. Hope to hear from you. Paul