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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: chrisgrant on Tuesday 07 June 11 08:22 BST (UK)

Title: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: chrisgrant on Tuesday 07 June 11 08:22 BST (UK): I am trying to establish what happened to Edgar Gosling, born Oct/Dec 1900 in Cardiff to parents James Gosling & Jane Taylor.

On 1/3/1913 he arrived St.Johns, New Brunswick with his sister Louisa, born 1899, on the Empress of India [I have the ship's record]. He was being met by his father, James Gosling, who had earlier emigrated as a settler in August 1912. The last I can trace of him is this arrival in 1913 in Canada at 157 Metcalfe St, St Johns, New Brunswick.

His sister Louisa Gosling married Frank Hopkins in 1916 and they settled later in Dolbeau, Quebec in 1928 . She told her grandchildren that Edgar had joined the Canadian Merchant Navy and had been drowned at sea.

I have checked as well as I can Canadian wartime records and he does not appear to have been killed in a World War.

Please can anyone help with whatever happened to Edgar Gosling.
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: valeriec on Tuesday 07 June 11 13:31 BST (UK): Just to clarify for when you are looking for information
Saint John, New Brunswick
St. John's Newfoundland

You could check the Maritime History Research collection at Memorial Univeristy in St. John's NFLD as they may have records of crew members lost at sea. Do you have a time frame for his death as that could narrow the search.
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: chrisgrant on Tuesday 07 June 11 15:22 BST (UK): Valeriec

Thanks. I mean St. John's New Brunswick.

Are you saying that the Memorial University Newfoundland may have maritime records for all Canada?, and, if so,might they look them up for me?

I cannot be certain, but he probably died 1919-1930. He likely joined around 1914. aged 14?

Cheers, Chris
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: valeriec on Tuesday 07 June 11 16:37 BST (UK): Memorial University in St. John's NFLD would be a starting point to see what they might have. The other site would be Collections Canada. The problem with the crew lists is that you need to know what ship he was on and that can be tricky to find.

Where did his father James Gosling live in new Brunswick. They may have a local genealogy association that may have old papers, write ups books, etc. pertaining to families living in the area.

If he lived in Saint John, New Brunswick, I would try the Saint John Public Library to see if they have any old newspapers or articles pertaining to this person. I don't want to sound like a broken record but St John's, New Brunswick doesn't exist and will make internet searching harder for you if that is what you enter. The next census of Canada is 1921 and won't be available for a few years.
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: valeriec on Tuesday 07 June 11 16:41 BST (UK): Library and Archives Canada

www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/index-e.html

under search all enter different topics such as merchant navy/merchant marine/crew lists/ and see what comes up.
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: chrisgrant on Tuesday 07 June 11 17:16 BST (UK): Valeriec

Thanks. A detailed site - new to me.

So far, I have discovered that there are no employment Files . Probably the only way to find details of an individual crew member is to know what vessel he was on. But will continue searching.

Another possibility is that, were he drowned before before 1928 whilst his family was still in St. Johns New Brunswick, it might have been reported in a local paper.

Am I right in assuming that no Register of Deaths post 1911 is consultable in Canada?. He had the unique name Edgar Taylor Gosling.
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: valeriec on Tuesday 07 June 11 17:16 BST (UK): I am going to give this link to sites for research in New Brunswick. I did find the marriage for Louisa and a birth that may be related to the Gosling family. I wasn't able to find a death for either James or Edgar though.
I will provide the info just in case you aren't able to access it. I always find that the more info I have, the easier it is to get to the info that I really need or want.
http://www.genealogysearch.org/canada/newbrunswick.html

scroll down to Vital Statistics Search Engine of the Provincial Archives of New Brunswick

You can actually view the original marriage and birth documents. You enter only the last name under the search option and then you will see a number next to birth/marriage/death and click on that to bring up the details.

will continue on new page as I am starting to bounce.
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: valeriec on Tuesday 07 June 11 17:29 BST (UK): There isn't a central registry for BMD's in Canada, they are by province. If the family stayed in NB or if the ship was out of Saint John, there could be something in a newspaper. Do you know when the father James died and where? There could be an obituary that would list members of the family still living to help narrow your search.

This is the info that I found from Vital Statistics

marriage (as written on the document)
April 4, 1916
Frank Ernest Hopkins 21
Residence - St. John, NB
Birth - Middlesex, Eng
bachelor, loaborer, Church of England
Parents - William @ Belinda Hopkins

Louisa Bennetta Gosling, 18 yrs
Residence - St. John, NB
Birth - Cardiff, South Wales, Eng
spinster, Church of England
parents - James & jane Gosling
witnesses - Murray Dunham ? (hard to read), St. John, NB
Mrs. F. Braid, St. John, NB
married by J. B. Champion
licence # 7633
transcribed Sousa Bennetta Gosling

birth 1912/02/21
Harry William Angel
Saint John, NB
Parents - Albert Henry Angel
Edith Jane Gosling
address - 151 Metcalfe Street, St. John, NB
Physician - Doctor Pratt
Mrs. Harry Green
The address 151 Metcalfe St and the middle name Jane was the factor that this could be another sibling of Edgar.
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: valeriec on Tuesday 07 June 11 17:31 BST (UK): www.canada 411.ca
this is an online telephone directory and there is a B Angel listed for new Brunswick. This could be a descendant of the Angels listed above and may be able to provide some info.
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: valeriec on Tuesday 07 June 11 17:44 BST (UK): I found the Attestation Papers for
A H Angel (Albert Henry)
Regimental Number 709543
wife - E J Angel
176 ? Metcalfe St. St. John, NB
enlisted Sept. 18th, 1915 in Sussex, NB

Another link to Metcalfe Street
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: valeriec on Tuesday 07 June 11 17:49 BST (UK): http://saintjohnlibrary.com/main.html

Saint John Free Public Library

Hope some of these sites get you closer to the info that you are searching for.
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: chrisgrant on Tuesday 07 June 11 18:15 BST (UK): I am just overwhelmed. Whilst you were posting your last 4 posts I had just discovered, through your New Brunswick site, the 18/10/1915 death of Edith Jane Angel/Gosling - just a month after her husband had enlisted . I had known that she had died by his return on a troop ship in 1919. The Angel hunt was going to be next week's post! I had not known of the 1912 birth: they are in the 1910 census with 4 children.

www.goslingfamily.co.uk is what I have discovered on James' 12. out of 16, surviving children ,born 1873-1900. The Angels had come out in 1908 and obviously persuaded the widowed father, James Gosling, to try a new life in 1912. He incidentally returned in 1919 and died in Cardiff in 1922.

Will probably need the rest of the evening to digest - and record - all you have provided me with. Have already asked Louisa's Canadian grandson to apply for Edith's d.c.

Will get back to you tomorrow. Thanks a million.
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: chrisgrant on Monday 13 June 11 11:13 BST (UK): I have examined all the leads you have given me, but unable to find any records for the merchant marine.

I have got Gosling relations in Canada working on it, and now feel that Edgar Taylor Gosling probably died before 1925. The last of Louisa's children, 1920, was named Edgar Taylor Hopkins, but seemingly never knew he was named after his uncle.

Will repost if I get any more clues. Thanks again
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: jorose on Tuesday 14 June 11 16:06 BST (UK): Note that on archives.gnb.ca/ there are also some Saint John funeral home records. There is one for Albert Henry Angel that gives the married name of one of his daughters.
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: chrisgrant on Tuesday 14 June 11 20:57 BST (UK): Jorose

Thanks for that pointer. Not only did I find Albert Henry Angel's 1953 death, but also the marriage of his daughter, Gladys Angel to Frank Jeffrey in 1929. And they were still living in the same house 19 Hammond Street St. John in 1953!

So, although I have yet to find out how and when Edgar Taylor Gosling met his death, I have got much further with the lives & descendants of both Edith Jane Gosling/Angel and Louisa Gosling/Hopkins.

The latter only stayed in Saint John until 1927. But she had 3 sons there, Ernest Hopkins 1917, Robert/Robbie Hopkins 1918 & Edgar Taylor Hopkins Oct 1920. The lastborn lost 2 of his fingers aged 2, chopped off accidentally by his 4 year old brother who was in the basement chopping the family wood - unbelievable to us today!! Edgar Taylor Hopkins was at sometime, aged 3??, shipped to an aunt in Cardiff, returning from there to Quebec in August 1929 - have found that shipping record. I just wondered what newspapers survive from that era? - if either of these facts might have been recorded?. His father, Frank Hopkins, worked for the Atlantic Sugar Refinery in St. John.

Chris
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: jorose on Wednesday 15 June 11 09:30 BST (UK): http://archives.gnb.ca/APPS/NewspaperDirectory/?culture=en-CA
- plenty of surviving newspapers, just most of them aren't online or indexed but microfilmed and held in various places.
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: corisande on Thursday 16 June 11 16:14 BST (UK): Jorose
Thanks for that. As you say, lots of newspapers to search were I in Saint John.
Have a dead computer at present - so replying on my husband's.
Should be back in business next week!
A living Gosling born 1923 remembers that Aunt Annie had a small Canadian boy -Edgar Hopkins seen below - living with her in Cardiff!!, but does not think she ever met him.
(http://www.goslingfamily.co.uk/louisa-1899/EdgarTaylorHopkins-age-6-19.jpg)
I do not yet for certain whether this photo was taken in St. John or in Cardiff.

Chris
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: chrisgrant on Friday 24 June 11 08:52 BST (UK): Still working on the small boy Edgar Taylor Hopkins, born 1920 Saint John. Lost his 2 fingers in 1922/3 and was sent to the UK sometime between 1924 & 1929, "a very unhappy time for Edgar", most likely aboard a ship out of Saint John.

I cannot find him on board a ship in this period. Are there any other searches that can be done other than the records on Ancestry? Family myth has a 4 year stay in the UK.

I have failed to prove whether the '1927' photo of him above was taken in Cardiff, with this cruel aunt, Annie Gerrard, nee Gosling, or whilst he was still in Saint John.

His parents, Frank & Louisa Hopkins , probably left the Atlantic Sugar Refinery, Saint John, in 1927 and went to the International Paper Company of Newfoundland Limited, Corner Brook, Newfoundland and shortly afterwards to the newly opened paper mill in Dolbeau, Quebec. Vast distances to travel!

http://www.goslingfamily.co.uk/louisa-1899/louisa-1899.html

gives any additional information anyone kind enough to help me might require .

Many thanks
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: valeriec on Friday 24 June 11 11:32 BST (UK): I found him on a passenger list into Canada in 1929
Edger Hopkins, age 8
1929/08/22
Quebec
Montclare
page 647, microfilm reel T14757
www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/microform-digitization/006003-119.01-e.php?

go to Browse by title
Passenger Lists Quebec City 1925-1935 and click
1-30 of 80 next and click
T14757 and click
type in page 647 of 656, click Go and the page should come up.
I have saved the image in case you have trouble accessing it.
Title: Re: Edgar Gosling- New Brunswick-died at sea
Post by: chrisgrant on Friday 24 June 11 21:27 BST (UK): Thanks.

I did indeed have him coming back in 1929, - sorry, thought I had made that clear earlier on - but cannot find him leaving Canada, which is why I was anxious to find out whether the 1927 photo was Canada or Cardiff, since the 'story' goes that he was away for 4 years. And why would anyone send a small child away for such a long time, especially as aunt Annie seemed to have a reputation for being cruel??

Sorry if I misled you with which records I have.

Chris

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