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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: seek on Tuesday 07 June 11 02:10 BST (UK)
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Looking for information on Donald Fraser McDonald. Born 26 October 1903 in Patick.Lanark.Scotland. Died 1973 Glasgow.
His parents are Donald Fraser McDonald(Shiiping Clerk) & Elizabeth Morrison (Dressmaker)
It states on his birth certifcate that he was an illigetment child.
I would appreciated anyones help.
Thankyou
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On Sp i only found two marriages for couples with these names between 1855 & 1950.
1874 13 Dec Marriage 098/000121 In Inverness Elizabeth Jane Morrison & Donald McDonald
1931 Marriage 644/200053 In Plantation,Glasgow Elizabeth Alexa Morrison & Donald Fraser McDonald
Would like to know if the 2nd entry are Donald Fraser McDonald born 1903 parents.
If not how do i find information on him
I would appreciated any advice.
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Hi Seek
It may be that Donald's parents, Donald and Elizabeth, never married following his birth in 1903. Have you managed to find your Donald on the 1911 census (although looking for a Donald McDonald on any census is hard!)?
Monica :)
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Just as a possibility for Donald Snr., there is this birth showing on IGI:
Donald FRASER MCDONALD b. 14 OCT 1874 in Dyke, Moray
Parents: Donald MCDONALD and Elizabeth FRASER
Thought this might connect with this 1901 census entry...and by pure chance, I think Elizabeth Morrison might also be included in this entry (which would be lucky!):
Isabella Mcgeoch 62 b. Ayrshire, Neilston
Eliabeth Morrison 25, boarder, dressmaker, b. Glasgow
Donald Mcdonald 27, boarder, Shipping Clerk b. Morayshire, Dyke
Wm R Reathie 24, boarder
David Mcquarrie 24, boarder
Address: Lennox Place, Renfrew
Monica
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The 1901 cenus i think is correct. On Donalds birth 1903 certificate it states Elizabeth Morrison Dressmaker & Donald McDonald Shipping Clerk.
Thankyou so much for finding this, now that i have the parents birth dates i may be able to go forward.
Maybe they never did marry.
Maybe the 1911 cenus will show more, i hope.
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Not sure if you have your Donald's marriage cert. Sometimes later certs can show more information about parents.
Monica
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If we do have the right entry for Donald Snr., you might want to do some general searches on Scotlands People to see if anything shows for him in later years. Using the middle name of Fraser in the searches brings up a couple of possibilities for marriages and a death.
For example, there is a death showing for a Donald Fraser McDonald b. 1874 in 1933. You have potentially his parents names from that 1874 IGI birth entry to be able to compare and consider...
Monica
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On 1903 Donalds marriage certificate 644/102337 in Blythwood, 1921, to Elizabeth Scade his parents Donald Fraser McDonald was a Cargo measures & Eliabeth McDonald MS: Morrison
This assume they were married. Somewhere between 1903 & 1921 but nothing has come up on SP.
Thankyou for your help
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i can honestly say i have learnt not to assume the whole truth is written on certificates.
Donald McDonald Born 14 Oct 1874. Died 3 Dec 1933 & married 24 Feb 1931.
Just to find out sublings?
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Was the 1931 marriage that you have found for Donald and Elizabeth?
From censuses for Donald, I thought this might be him with family in 1881:
Donald McDonald 39, station master b. Alvie Inv.
Elizabeth McDonald 40 b. Inverness, Inv.
Alexander McDonald 12 b. Kingussie, Invernessshire
Isabella McDonald 10 b. Inverallan, Invernessshire
Ewen McDonald 8 b. Aberfeldy, Perthshire
Donald McDonald 6 b. Aberfeldy, Perthshire
Mary McDonald 2 b. Dyke Morayshire
Address: Brodie Station, Dyke Morayshire
Monica
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Yes the 1931 marriage was to Elizabeth Alexander Morrison 644/200053. They married late in life.
They had a son Donald Fraser McDonald born 1903 Died 1973
Other siblings (only on hear say) Betty,Alex,Robert,Arthur, Stanley.
The cenus 1881 may be for Donald McDonald born 1842 & wife Elizabeth Fraser born 1836 married 1868 .Parents to Donald Fraser McDonald 1874.
This is why it is so confusing everyone using the same names.
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I down loaded the Marriage for Donald McDonald 1842 parents.
Ewen McDonald & Isabella McIntosh 2/12/1842 Laggan.
SP number: 104/00 00200069
On this marriage it doesnt say anything regarding their parents or how old they were when they married.
Can anyone give me advice on how to go back further.
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Pre 1855 entries for BMDs will be from the old parish registers as it is before the start of official registration in Scotland from 1855. OPR entries, as you have seen, are in the main very scant on info. There are also many missing entries or people not being registered which can lead to gaps in the info. The OPRs were for the established Church of Scotland (ie. presbyterian). Some guidance notes here from SP www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&613
You have four children showing for Ewen and wife Isabella following their 1842 marriage, all births in Laggan:
1. Donald MC DONALD b. 25 JAN 1842
2. Annie MC DONALD b. 12 JAN 1844
3. Isabella MC DONALD b. 3 SEP 1846
4. Duncan MC DONALD b. 24 JUN 1848
From these dates, either gaps in the registers or an early death for one of the parents?
Would help to find them in the 1851/61 censuses. On Donald 1842's marriage, were either of his parents showing as deceased?
Monica
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This looks like the family in 1851 in Kingussie and Insh, next door to Laggan (everyone showing as born in Laggan except young Donald):
Ewan McDonald 32, widowed, gamekeeper
Donald McDonald 9 b. Alvie
Ann McDonald 7
Bell McDonald 5
Duncan McDonald 2
Christian McDonald 27, sister
Address: Dalwhinnie Beg
See http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl for indexed entry.
Monica
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Regarding establishing parents for Ewen and wife Isabella, Isabella's will be harder to confirm given her death before the start of official registration. You are likely to have to make some educated guesses on that!
Ewen McDonald, you would need to follow through with him to hopefully past the start of official registration where his death cert will include his parents's names.
Making a guess from what we have so far for him ::) there is this on IGI:
Ewen MACDONALD chr. 20 AUG 1818 in Laggan, Inverness
Parents Donald MACDONALD and Ann MACPHERSON
Monica
Added: The family in 1861, still at the same place:
Ewen McDonald 41, gamekeeper
Donald McDonald 19, school master
Ann McDonald 17
Isabella McDonald 15
Duncan McDonald 13
Address: Dalwhinniebeg
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Thankyou i shall follow through with this info. Regarding Isabella the wife to Ewen she was deceased at their son Donald(1842) Marriage in 1868.
With the marriage of Donald & Isabella it is only a two line entry on page 220 with no information regarding either side of parents.
Hopefully this birth date for Ewen will give more details.
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Don't be hopeful on Ewen christening/birth entry on the OPRs, likely it will be a one liner also. His death cert is really the only to look for in respect of confirming his parents details' and more info.
The link from above www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Content/Help/index.aspx?r=554&613 gives you an idea of how little information can be included on the OPRs normally. Formal reporting on BMDs only started from 1855 with the start of official registration.
Monica
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Found Ewen death 8 March 1904 in Kingussie & Insh. Inverness which shows his parents are Donald McDonald & Ann MacPherson
Isabella death is 1850 (shows a correct match on SP)
Found a marriage to Donald McDonald & Ann Mcapherson on IGI 1814 in Laggan, not sure if correct.
Now know two children Ewen 1818 & Christian 1822
Is there a way on IGI to show up all children to a couple?
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Could someone be able to help me with children to Donald Fraser McDonald 1874 & Elizabeth Alexander Morrison 1871.They married late in life in 1931.Plantation
Donald Born 1903. Patrick. Lanark
Betty
Alex
Robert
Arthur
Stanley
Have looked several 1911 cenus only to open up the wrong ones. Would like to know the year the children were in born in.
Thankyou
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Is there a way on IGI to show up all children to a couple?
The best source to check for entries on the OPRs is Scotlands People. As great as IGI is, there are gaps and missing data on it which you often go on to find on the actual index for the OPRs on SP. Worth double checking on there.
A couple of possible other siblings for Ewen that I am seeing from general googles:
- a sister Elizabeth b. July 19, 1825 in Catlodge, Laggan to Donald and Ann. Elizabeth married a John McPherson (this is from an online tree on Anc/y). Father Donald is showing as having died on September 19, 1870 in Laggan and mother Ann on August 9, 1872. This is all information that you can hopefully verify on SP. This family looked to have headed off to Australia.
- There is also a possible brother Donald (see http://sherber1.tripod.com/index-10next.html) who shows as having married a Ruth Harkness. I can see an IGI OPR entry for a marriage in Glasgow for a couple with these names. Again, hopefully something you can expand on. Lots of children show for them on IGI in Lanarkshire.
If you look on the early censuses, there is a possible MacDonald family, headed up by a Donald and Ann, in Catlodge, Laggan who might be Ewen's parents. Hard to be more certain at this stage, likely Ewen already working away from home by 1841.
Monica
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Regarding the 1911 census entry for the family, the best thing I can suggest is to search for Donald and use the second name box on the search screen, trying the less common names of Arthur and Stanley.
For example, there is only one entry showing in 1911 for a Donald M*Donald aged 7-8, with an Arthur or Stanley in the household. This entry shows in Renfrewshire (which is where parents showed in 1901).
Monica
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Opened up the Cenus 1911 & did what you suggested & shows Donald & Elizabeth with 4 children.
Donald Age 7, Stanley age 5, Alexander age 3, Arthur age 1. The missing dates for Betty could be 1910 as only one match on SP . Robert has too many matches.
Will check on SP
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If you have those ages/birth years for the four children in 1911, I would guess Elizabeth and Robert may have been born after the 1911 census?
Monica
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With OPR for Donald 1792 & Ann Macpherson found their children. 1818 Ewen, 1820 Donald, 1822 Christian, 1825 Elspilt/Elizabeth,1830 Alexander,1834 William, 1836 James, 1839 Ranald.
Donald bith 13/5/1792 Died 19 Dec 1870 ( got his death cert)
Shows his parents Donald McDonald & Janet Clark
Their children 1782 Angus, 1785 William, 1789 William, 1792 Donald, 1798 Ranald.
Cant find their marriage date, not on IGI
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You are entering a period now where records can become thinner on the ground unfortunately (lucky so far though with the entries that have been found ;)).
Monica
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Yes i thought it would be alot harder now.
I am greatful for the information i have recieved & a big thankyou for your time & help to guide me through the steps.
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I'm trying to find death date to Donald McDonald 25/1/1842 Laggan. Married Elizabeth Fraser in 1868 Aberfeldy. Parents are Ewen McDonald & Isabella McIntosh.
Opened up on SP couples of entries 1904 Laggan 104/000010 & 1918 Kingussie 102/000012 neither of them his.
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It does get tricky now, with possible wrong viewings :-\ The issue will be the commoness of the surname of M(a)cDonald. MacDonald is one of my main lines, in similar area, so I know how very hard it can be to identify people on the indexes.
What can help sometimes is to narrow down events to give you a time window for possible deaths. Sometimes looking for wife's death first can help as you can look for wife's death using both maiden name and married surname which can make it easier to find often. The wife's DC will show whether husband is still alive or already deceased.
The other way is to look at children's marriage certs as again this will show whether either parent was alive or deceased. In your case with Donald b. 1874 v. late marriage in 1931, that won't help! Looking for possible siblings marriages to help with this might also be tricky due to the common surname.
This was the family that we had from earlier in 1881:
Donald McDonald 39, station master b. Alvie Inv.
Elizabeth McDonald 40 b. Inverness, Inv.
Alexander McDonald 12 b. Kingussie, Invernessshire
Isabella McDonald 10 b. Inverallan, Invernessshire
Ewen McDonald 8 b. Aberfeldy, Perthshire
Donald McDonald 6 b. Aberfeldy, Perthshire
Mary McDonald 2 b. Dyke Morayshire
Address: Brodie Station, Dyke Morayshire
Monica
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I wonder if mother Elizabeth Fraser had died by 1891? This is the closest I can see on the transcript for 1891, which implies a possible second marriage for father Donald:
D Macdonald 49 Retired Station Master b. Alvie
Maudline Macdonald 36, wife b. Rafford, Morayshire
Erven (?Ewen) Macdonald 18, clerk b. Dall (?spl)
Mary Macdonald 12 b. Dyke, Morayshire
Mary Macdonald 4 b. Dyke, Morayshire
Address: Railway Ter No 2, Nairn, Nairnshire
Monica
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Struggling on possible census entries for 1901 for Donald Snr. but thought this might be son Ewen by now married (would let you confirm whether Donald Snr still alive through this marriage cert...if the right Ewen!):
Ewen Macdonald 28, clerk b. Aberfeldy, Perthshire
Jane Macdonald 27 b. Moffat, Dumfriesshire
Ewen F Macdonald 5 Months b. Partick, Lanarkshire
Address: 3 Alexandra St, Partick, Govan
Monica
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Not having much luck with this.
Typed in death for Elizabeth Fraser McDonald between 1881 & 1891, two possibilties 1886 in Kinloss & 1888 in Moray.Havent opened any as yet.
Typed in marriage for Ewen(1873) wife Jane between 1890 & 1901 no matches
Typed in marriage for Donald(1842) 2nd marriage wife maudeline between 1891 & 1901 no matches.
Going by previous information they could of said on cenus they were married but in actual fact they werent.
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Possibilites for Donalds death date. Typed in cenus dates 1881 & 1901 could be of 7 entries:
1894 North Vist Inverness, 1894 St Rollox Glasgow, 1892 Knockbain Ross & Cromarty, 1892 Nth Knapdale Argyll, 1892 Hutchesontown Glasgow, 1897 Dennistoun Glasgow, 1897 St.Rollox Glasgow.
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Doing the same searches as you have done :)
Mother Elizabeth Fraser, could be either death can't it! Right sort of age and location for both entries (based on where the family were in 1881) and of course, you won't know until you look at entries which way round the surnames are (maiden name v. married name).
Ewen's marriage. Try J*n* for bride (I think the first name is showing as Jeanie - can be a number of variants to Jane/Jean/Janet etc). There are two entries showing though, one in Glasgow and the other elsewhere.
Regarding a possible remarriage for Donald, there is one entry showing in 1890 where the bride's name shows as Magdalene searching as M*d*l*n* (likely the Maudline we saw on the transcript?).
I have searched MacDonald as M*Donald in all cases.
As you can see from all my '*' wildcards on searches, if you don't find what you are looking for or even before you start your searches, I always assume possible different spellings. Sometimes less is more specially with SP where spelling/searches are so rigid. For example, I always search for Mac/Mc names as M*c because there is no right or wrong for this one and it will come up as either. You get 25 results per page on SP for 1 unit. I use that as my marker so if I get too many results that might go over two pages (very seldom does this happen), I can always add more letters. If not, I have up to 25 entries with hopefully all sorts of spelling variations to chose from!
Monica
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Opened the two entries for mother Elizabeth Fraser death 1886 Kinloss, this says married to a Samuel McDonald & 1888 Moray says married to a Alexander McDonald. Her parents are William Fraser & Mary McBean.
Found sons marriage to Jeannie Dunn in 1897. His marriage says both Donald & Elizabeth deceased.
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So we are still not sure about Elizabeth mother's death from what you have found (or not found in this case :-\).
Good news on Ewan's marriage cert though :)
If we do have the right entry for Donald Snr in 1891, then death year range for him would be 1891-97 by the look of it. Eight possibilities showing on SP though for a Donald M*cdonald born c. 1842 (he seemed quite consistent on his census entries). Pure guess, if you feel like a gamble here... There is one death showing for a Donald McDonald b. 1842 in Nairn, Nairnshire in 1891. Just thinking of that possible census entry we found for Donald with a second wife maybe in Nairn in 1891.
Monica
Added: Maybe next stage, when you are ready, is to try and check on the possible remarriage for Donald to a Magdalene we had in 1890.
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...Maybe next stage, when you are ready, is to try and check on the possible remarriage for Donald to a Magdalene we had in 1890.
Or maybe not :-\ Just double checked and that marriage I had found for a Donald and a Magdalene looks to have been in Edinburgh in 1890 (the only one I could easily see on SP before 1901).
However, there is a likely couple showing in Edinburgh on the 1891 census, which given their ages and lack of children, likely to have been the bride and groom from that 1890 marriage in Edinburgh. So I would now say....can't see a marriage entry that would help with Donald Snr and that possible 1891 census entry.
Monica
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What I have found though is another possible death entry for mother Elizabeth. There is a death showing in Dyke, Morayshire (where we had the family in 1881) for an Elizabeth Fraser/McDonald who shows as having died in 1884, aged 44, so born c. 1840.
Monica
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Opened the entry for Elizabeth Fraser died 1884 in Dyke 19 July. Donald was still alive then. IGI showed her birth as 1936. Dont know why this entry didnt show when i typed in her death between the dates 1881 to 1891,very strange.
Any idea on how to find Donald death?
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Very strange indeed on Elizabeth's 1884 death. Like you I did the same searches you had for Elizabeth's death the other day and could only see the two you found. Tried again yesterday and up came the other 1884 entry!
In any event, you have found her death entry :)
Regarding Donald 1842's death. As you have seen, you have to keep on referring to and finding possible events to try and narrow down years when things could have happened.
We know Donald Snr had passed away by the time son Ewen married in 1897. I am pretty convinced that the 1891 census entry with 'wife' Magdalene is him stilll alive:
D Macdonald 49 Retired Station Master b. Alvie
Maudline Macdonald 36, wife b. Rafford, Morayshire
Erven (?Ewen) Macdonald 18, clerk b. Dall (?spl)
Mary Macdonald 12 b. Dyke, Morayshire
Mary Macdonald 4 b. Dyke, Morayshire
Address: Railway Ter No 2, Nairn, Nairnshire
So we have a six/seven years likely range for his death. The search I did yesterday was for a death between 1891-7, for a Donald b. 1842 +/-1yr (I have only used 1 year variance as he was pretty consistent with his age) which showed 9 deaths. If I had to close my eyes and chose just one to look at ::), with the info we have as a guide, I would consider looking at the one I mentioned yesterday that seems to have taken place in Nairn the same year of the census, 1891. If it is not that death, then you are left with 8 more as possibles...
Monica
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On my previous searches i searched in between 1892-1900 out by one year which was the entry we were looking for. Yes this is him with his new wife madeline, he died in Nairn in 1891 1 Nov
Thankyou for your help, this couple certainly did make some challengers along the way.
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:D Phew - you're there!
I have to ask, did Donald show as married to Magdelene on his death cert? What was her maiden name if so?
Monica
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On his death certificate it showed Madeline Cameron & their address 3 Railway Terrace in Nairn. Cant read the district name Diel---? It also showed he was a station master in Brodic which marrys up with the cenus.
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Looking for birth & death date for a Donald Fraser MacDonald
Parents Elizabeth Hall Scade Born 1902 Died 1967
Donald Fraser MacDonald Born 1903 Died 1973
Married 1921 Blythswood.
Siblings 1) Norman Thomas Born 1925 Govan Died 1994 Glasgow
2) Donald Fraser Born 1923 Blythswood ??
Married to Bridey Cochrane 1952. Blythswood
Died:???Thinking 1977??
(SP has confirmed marriage is correct, but the date of 1922 for birth & 1987 death what i had orginally was incorrect)
3) Annie MacDonald Born 1926 Govan Died 2007 Australia
4) (*) MacDonald Born 1937 Govan. Still alive
5) Margaret MacDonald Born 1942 Died 1987 Livingston
Also Could someone give me advice on how to check if there were infant deaths between Annie & (*) as 11 year gap & 5 year gap between (*) & Margaret.
SP said that the Family History Centre in Edinburgh or the Registration Offices can help but i dont live in Scotland
Any help is appreciated.
I am wanting to purchase the deaths certificates of all siblings, but need to be sure of correct numbers as it could turn out to be an expensive mistake.
Thankyou
Added: (*) Details of living people removed to protect their privacy as part of RootsChat's policy.
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Monical could you please delete my last post please. Foumd some information i needed thankyou.
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Hi Seek
Really pleased you have found information that helps and hope you research is progressing well.
We do not delete posts here on RootsChat after information has been found or requests have been completed. A number of reasons for this:
Searches and information found here may well be of use to other researchers now and in the future. Your thread has been running now for over a year and the info here may help other people too related to these lines :)
Not so relevant here, but where you have multiple contributions by a number of members, taking posts out can make the general flow of information hard to follow.
Monica :)