RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Emsworthy on Sunday 05 June 11 21:42 BST (UK)
-
Hi all,
I am looking for any information regarding the Ingarfill family below.
James Ingarfill
Eliza Elson (I think) b. 1847 Hoxton
I know about the following children:
Florence 1874
James 1876
Mabel 1878
Frank c1880
Helena 1883
Henrietta 1884
Alice 1887
Living for that period in the Minories/Spitalfields/Whitechapel area.
I can't find them anywhere on any census records. Any information on this, both before and after marriage, and any marriage records would be gratefully received!
Many thanks,
Emma ;)
-
marriage of Mabel
St Matthews Bethnal Green
24 oct 1897
Joseph Charles arnold 23 bach upholsterer Meadows Bridge Charles Arnold French polisher
Mabel Jane Ingarfill 19 spi " James Ingarfill carpenter
witnesses James george Ingarfill and Edith Ingarfill
-
Great! Thank you very much. I think this one is going to be a challenge! ::)
Regards, Emma ;)
-
26 May 1901 St philip Stepney
Frank Ingarfill 21 bac carman? sidney st James Ingarfill carpenter
Daisy hermans19 sp " Alick Hermans cigar maker
There is some WW1 records too
children of Frank
Daisy Florence 9 Oct 1901
George William 30 oct 1904
Elizabeth Eliza 25 jan 1907
james 19 Jan 1909
-
CWGC website
Frank Ingarfill, East Surrey Reg died 26 sept 1915 buried at Loos
-
8 Jul 1908 St Bartholomew Bethnal Green
Henry David Wilson Shuter 22 Bac Bootmaker Fellbrigge st David Wilson Shuter Bootmaker
Henrietta Maud Ingarfill 21 spi confectioner Fellbrigge st James Ingafill carpenter
-
There is a marriage of a James Ingarfill to a Leona Ingarfill in 1878, only marr I can find for a James between 1861 and 1891. Where did you get Eliza Elson from?
-
Helena Maud Ingarfill born 1883 died July 1883 Whitechapel
Jennifer
-
She is on another tree done by someone else - no reference to marriage date though.
Thanks for all the info so far! :)
-
1901 census 33 Finnis Street Bethnal Green
Joseph Arnold 27 Upholsterer city
Mabel 22 Minories
Mabel 3 B/Green
William 5 months B/Green
Jennifer
-
Thanks Jennifer. All this info is great! :)
-
Free BMD
deaths
Alice Louisa mar 1888 Whitechapel aged 0
Florence dec 1885 " aged 9
-
possible death of James Ingarfill jun q 1903 Bromley 2a 267 aged 68
This seems to be the James married to Leona, but in all census they show no children with them, he is also a carpenter!!! ???
-
Leona Ingarfill will - died 22/12/1919 Glenfarg St.John's Hill Sevenoaks Kent £175.9.10d to Agnes Turner Spinster
1901 census 65 Graham Street Islington James Ingarfill 21 Barman born Aldgate
Jennifer
-
The James that Jennifer has found in 1901 could well be son who married Gertrude Bavin, was he also James George who emigrated to New south Wales?
-
Bethnal Green St John
27 August 1900
John James Moy 67 Widower Stoker 125 Quinns Buildings s Joseph deceased horsekeeper
Eliza Ingarfill 52 Widow of same address d George Thomas Elson deceased plasterer
Eliza was illiterate
-
Whitechapel St Marks (but indexed under Islington Goodman's Field St Marks on ancestry)
6 March 1878
Mabel Jane Ingarfill (born 4 Feb 1878) and Florence Ingarfill (born 27 Dec 1874) baptised to James and Eliza (indexed as Ingarfield) of 56 Church Street, carpenter
That's the only two I can find so far.
Nicola
-
Hoxton St John
Eliza Elson (born 8 Jan 1847) baptised to George Thomas and Sarah Elson of Ivy Lane, plasterer
Also baptised at the same time
Jane Amelia Elson (born 15 Feb 1845)
Emma Amy Elson (born 7 Jan 1849)
-
Hoxton St John
1 Sept 1845
George Thomas Elson, of full age, single man, plasterer of Hoxton Town, s George Thomas Elson (deceased) plasterer
Sarah Stiles, of full age, single woman, of Hoxton Town, d William Stiles, Ivory Turner
both illiterate
witnesses: William Stiles, Elizabeth George, both illiterate.
-
1891 Census
3 Rupert Street, Goodman's Fields, Whitechapel
Eliza Ingerfill Head Widow 44, charwoman born Hoxton
Emma Ingerfill, dau, 19, waitress, born Whitechapel
George Ingerfill, son, 14, ?layer in Printers?, born Spitalfields
Hetty Ingerfill, dau, 6, born Spitalfields
-
Hi all,
Thanks again for all the info - it certainly is very confusing!
Nicola - all the Elson stuff is great - thank you!
Regards, Emma ;)
-
Not sure if this is relevant:
St Jude Bethnal Green, 25th December 1865
William Lobb, 20, Bachelor, Machine ??ler, Bethnal Green, s John Lobb, ?? Maker
Eliza Elson, 18, Spinster, Bethnal Green, d George Thomas Elson, Plasterer
Eliza was illiterate
Witnesses were William Marshall and Jane Marshall (Illiterate)
-
Interesting, does seem to be the same Eliza Elson and look likely she never married James Ingarfill.
Bethnal Green St James the Great
30 Jan 1870
John Alfred Lobb (born 13 Nov 1869) and William George Lobb (born 23 Jun 1866) baptised to William and Eliza of 107 Gossett Street, Machine Ruler
Shoreditch St James Curtain Road
4 Feb 1873
Emma Amy Lobb (born 30 Oct 1872) baptised to William and Eliza of 8 Craven Street, Machine Ruler
Perhaps that's the Emma Ingerfill with Eliza on the 1891 census, would definately be the correct age. There is a marriage of an Emma Amy Lobb in Kensington Registration District in 1899.
Dalston Holy Trinity
25 Dec 1897
William Lobb 51 Widower Ruler of 4 Woodlands Street, s John (deceased) (profession unreadable)
Julia Saunders 40 Single Woman of same address, d John (deceased) Mill Sawyer
both literate, the W and L in the signature are similar to the earlier marriage of William Lobb and Eliza Elson
Witnesses - James Edward Dean, Annie Dean
-
1881 Census
25 Wick Road, Hackney
William Lobb 36 Stationers Assistant, born Mile End
Julia Lobb 29 born Hackney
William George Lobb 14 Stationers Assistant born Bethnal Green
Louisa Lobb 13 General Servant born Bethnal Green
Lydia J Lobb 4 born Hackney
1891 Census
108 Shackwell Lane, Hackney
William Lobb 44 Account Book Binder born Mile End
Julia Lobb 39 born Hackney
Lydia J J Lobb 14 Milliners Assistant born Hackney
Jessie A Lobb 9 Scholar born Hackney
Florence B Lobb 4 Scholar born Hackney
John W Lobb 10 mths born Hackney
1901 Census
16 Ridley Road, Dalston
Julia Lobb Boarder Married 47 Domestic Cook born Hackney
Jessie Lobb Boarder Single 18 Envelope Folder born Hackney
-
1871 Census
107 Gossett St, Bethnal Green
William Lobb Head 26 Machine Ruler born Bethnal Green
Eliza Lobb Wife 24 born Bethnal Green
William Lobb Son 4 born Bethnal Green
Louisa Lobb Dau 3 born Bethnal Green
John A Lobb Son 1 born Bethnal Green
1861 Census
John Lobb Head 45 Silk Weaver born Hoxton
Louisa Lobb Wife 45 born Limehouse
John Lobb Son 20 Stationer born Mile End New Town
Joseph Lobb Son 17 Stationer born Mile End New Town
William Lobb Son 16 Stationer born Mile End New Town
James Lobb Son 8 Scholar born Bethnal Green
Looks likely that's the correct William Lobb, he and Eliza appear to have gone their separate ways in the early 1870s and he didn't marry Julia until 1897 ....
There's a baptism at Dalston St Mark
13 Jun 1886
Florence Beatrice Lobb (born 31 May 1886) baptised to William and Julia Lobb, machanic?, of 3 Castle Street, Kingsland
-
Emma
There are a couple of trees on ancestry for William and Julia Lobb, but they don't know her maiden name and inaccurately say William was son of a William and Mary born in Shoreditch.
Nicola
-
Thank you so much for all your hard work! It really bugs me when they do this...can't they have just got married the once and stuck with it?!
I'm still at a loss about James Ingarfill though!
Regards, Emma ;)
-
It wouldn't suprise me if he was the 1833/4 James Ingarfill from Knockholt, Kent who married Leonora Ingarfill in 1878. He was a carpenter and that isn't exactly a common surname. They also married in London, so he was up in London at times, had no children which perhaps suggests she couldn't and interestingly one of James and Eliza's children is supposed to be a James George Ingarfill, James' father was James and Leonora's father was George! She probably was a cousin. You may never be able to find anything to prove it but looks likely. ::)
I like a puzzle and then definately is one!
Nicola
-
Hi
Before they married James and Leonora were living at James' father in 1871. She was described as niece so they were cousins!!!
-
Thanks again!
Right then, that seems to have solved that link (assuming that is the right James)...but what about Mabel Jane (1878) and Frank (c1880)...where were they? :-\
-
Haven't been able to find them on any census, nor Eliza on the 1881 or 1901 census ..... in spite of the usual tricks of no surname, etc. ???
-
Neither have I...have been trying most of the day! Maybe they were under initials? Workhouse? It's endless! ::)
-
The address for the family given upon the 1878 baptisms of Mabel & Florence (56 Church St) unfortunately appears to be missing from the 1881 census.
See
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:Whitechapel_Registration_District,_1881_Census_Street_Index_C-F
for confirmation that part of Church St/Minories, Whitechapel is missing.
-
Mabel and Frank were scholars/inmates at the Forest Gate (Industrial) Schools in 1891: RG12/1337/105/21 (census schedule says INGARFIELD - use reference to sidestep any mistranscriptions).
School records apparently survive: http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=12944&inst_id=118&nv1=search&nv2=
-
John James MOY and Eliza, plus visiting stepson Frank "ENGLEFIELD", were at 125 Quinn's Buildings, Bethnal Green in 1901 - same address as their marriage. NB At first blush the number looks like 126 but on closer inspection the last digit is an old-fashioned 5.
Ref: RG13/295/71/51 (again this will sidestep any mistranscriptions). If in doubt search for 20 yr old Frank ENGLEFIELD born Minories, as his entry is clearest.
-
Excellent! Thank you - this is slowly coming together! :)
-
William George Lobb, born 1867 Bethnal Green, Eliza's son with William Lobb, is up in Cudworth, Yorkshire in 1901, a bricklayer, with wife Harriet born Lincolnshire and Lydia Mabel Lobb, 10, born Brisbane, Australia and Joyce Lobb, 5, born Cudworth
Quick look at the online indexes for Queensland:
1891 Lydia Mabel Lobb - William George and Harriett Keal Flint
The marriage is also in Queensland:
1890 William George Lobb and Harriet Keal Flint
-
Emma Amy Lobb appears to have married James Watts in 1899 in Kensington Registration District
1901 Census
308 Ladbrooke Grove, Kensington
James Watts, Head, 40, Driller in Iron Works, born Kensington
Emma Amy Watts, Wife, born Bethnal Green
Henrietta Watts (as listed), sister in law, 30, born Bishopsgate
It's quite possible that sister in law Henrietta is Henrietta Ingarfill as the ages are so far out, if you check the 1911 index you will find it is the correct James and Emma Amy.
Notting Hill Christ Church
12 May 1901
Helena May Watts (born 12 April 1901) baptised to James and Emma Amy, 398 (as written) Ladbrooke Grove, Gas Fitter
23 Nov 1902
Edith Watts (born 29 Oct 1902) baptised to James and Emma Amy, 308 Ladbrooke Grove, Gas Fitter
Ladbrooke Grove St Michael & All Angels
25 Feb 1906
Walter James Watts baptised to James and Emma Amy, 308 Ladbrooke Grove, Gas Fitter
-
Other siblings of Eliza Elson
St Botolph Bishopsgate
27 March 1864
Louisa Alice Elson (born 7 May 1862), George Thomas Elson (born 7 Nov 1850) and Walter James Elson (born 1 Oct 1855) baptised to George Thomas and Sarah Elson of 4 Dunnings? Alley, plasterer
-
Thanks again - this really is great! :)
-
Hello, I have Eliza,married to my gg, grandfather John James Moy,he died in 1908,the witness at his death was his daughter Sara Amelia Hyams,his address was 85 Charles street,mile end old town,I take it Eliza had died before him(due to his daughter being witness).
Hope this helps : )