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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Georgia Mitch on Friday 03 June 11 09:34 BST (UK)
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I'm trying to find my Poppa's (My Grandfather) mum's grandparents, so GG-Grands for me.
His father was Laurence Leonard Wine B 26 June 1910 in either Matamata or Tirau, NZ
His mother was Alma Dorothy Graham, B 29 June 1913 in Waitara and died about 1999.
I was just told that Alma Dorothy's father was named Harold, or Harry, Graham but have no other information on him and no information whatsoever on Alma's mother.
If it helps, my Poppa has 6 siblings, one of whom, Ngareen, died at age 13 from leukaemia. (B 1936, D 1949) All other siblings are still alive, I don't have conact with any of them though.
Any info will be greatly appreciated! Alma's parents are the last two of my great-great grandparents I have yet to find things out about.
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Hi Geah,
Here is Alma's death
1999/23112 Wine Alma Dorothy born 29 June 1913
Cheers Janette
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Alma is buried in Manukau Gardens
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bm5/
Cheers
KHP
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Thank you for the responses.
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L L Wine's parents marriage
1886/1085 Cathrine Barry Alfred James Wine
Here are L L Wine's siblings
1887/18944 Wine Alfred James Catherine Alfred James
1888/7181 Wine Rosa Jane Catherine Alfred James
1890/1263 Wine George Richard Catherine Alfred James
1892/960 Wine Flora Alice Catherine Alfred James
1893/15736 Wine Elsie May Catherine Alfred James
1895/8665 Wine Myra Viola Catherine Alfred James
1897/12734 Wine Howard Garrett Catherine Alfred James
1904/6042 Wine Victor Frederick Catherine Alfred James
1905/1933 Wine Olga Zilla Catherine Alfred James
1908/4704 Wine Daisy Vera Catherine Catherine Alfred James
1909/23592 Wine Laurence Leonard Catherine Alfred James
1972/154928 Wine Lela Mabel Winifred Catherine Alfred James
Cheers Janette
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The divorce record of Alma and Laurence is held at Auckland Archives.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cfc/
Unfortunately this has been restricted for 60 years.
Cheers
KHP
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Thanks Janette & KHP
I did know that Laurence re-married but didn't know where they were living at the time of divorce so didn't know where to look.
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Hello....
Do you know if Alma had any older siblings born pre-June 1911. If so you could trace her parents via them and the BDM Historical website, which would then lead to her grandparents.
If not, I'm happy to be proven wrong :-) but unless there is a mention of Alma Dorothy GRAHAM on the NZSG CD (anyone got access to it) I can only think of three ways of finding Alma's parents and grandparents.
i) Go to any medium sized library here in NZ and look through the 1913 NZ Births fiche for Alma Dorothy GRAHAM registerd in Waitara (or whatever the local registration district was called at the time). You could then order her birth certificate which would list her parents. Then their marriage could be traced via the BDM NZ Historical website. Then purchase their marriage certificate which would list Alma's four grandparents. Total cost 2 x $20 certificates (or printouts) plus a library visit.
ii) Wait another 24 months until 30 June 2013 at which time the 100-year restriction on viewing her birth details online will be lifted. The names of Alma's parents will be visible on the BDM NZ Historical website. Then just find their marriage on the same website and purchase their marriage certificate. This will list Alma's four grandparents. Total cost 1 x $20 certificate (or printout) plus 24 months of thumb twiddling.
iii) Purchase Alma's marriage certificate (or printout). The folio reference is listed on the NZ Marriages CD. This will list her parents. Then find their marriage via the BDM NZ Historical website and purchase their marriage certificate. This will list Alma's four grandparents. Total cost 2 x $20 and a CD lookup request.
Like I said, happy to be proven wrong :-)
Regards
Beg
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If not, I'm happy to be proven wrong :-) but unless there is a mention of Alma Dorothy GRAHAM on the NZSG CD (anyone got access to it) I can only think of three ways of finding Alma's parents and grandparents.
Alma is on the CD in the South taranaki index
parents J H & A Graham
Place Opunake (date given in 1913)
further info for this database is from Hawera branch of NZSG
Bye
althea
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Checking other names in the index, there are others and one is online in BMD that looks match
1909/11665 Graham Thomas Neil Alma John Henry
so parents possibly Alma and John Henry Graham for alma
Bye
althea
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Looks a likely match Althea
marriage
1906/715 Alma Larsen to John Henry Graham
they had 4 children pre 1911
1907/6997 Graham John Henry to Alma and John Henry
1908/12754 Graham Janet Sophia to Alma and John Henry
1909/11665 Graham Thomas Neil to Alma and John Henry
1910/21653 Graham Mornington to Alma and John Henry
Hi Geah,
The BDM records have to be 100yrs for births, if this is her parents there may well be more children born after the 100yrs
Cheers Janette
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Possible death of Alma's mother on 23/08/1943
1943/31638 Graham Alma 57Y
She is buried at Otorohanga, unfortunately not online.
and possible birth on 17/04/1886
1886/6677 Larsen Alma Heinke Sofie Frederike Niels
John B
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A possible marriage
1884/440 Heinke Sofie Friederike Hannibal to Niels Michael Larsen
Cheers Janette
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and two siblings
1885/3113 Larsen William Peter Heinka Sofie Frederika Niels Mickail
1887/3536 Larsen Niels Heinke Sofie Frederike Niels
John B
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NZSG Pedigree Collection has reference to a birth in Germany 1852
HANNIBAL Heinke Sofie F
John B
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Wow, thank you all so much for your time and effort! :D
@Johnbarr: I was always told that there was a German link on this side of the family, so i'd believe that about Heinke.
apparently other children were Hector b 1911 D 1989
Donald Douglas B 1916 D 1994
and Douglas Edward B 1922 D 1996.
also four children still living.
This is just what i'm seeing on Ancestry.
Fortunately Otorohanga is only a little over an hours drive away for me, if I needed to I could easily get down there for the day.
Again, thanks so much everyone. :D
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Hi,
Douglas Edward Graham buried at Hamilton Park Cemetery
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0dkr/
Cheers
KHP
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I'm happy to be proven wrong :-)
Alma is on the CD in the South taranaki index
parents J H & A Graham
I'll consider myself proven wrong.....yet again :-)
Regards
Beg
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Hi Beg
You were right ;D not wrong
the info on the CD was invaluable 8)
Bye
althea
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Hi Beg,
I agree with Althea -
but unless there is a mention of Alma Dorothy GRAHAM on the NZSG CD
you were proven right, yet again, ;D
we couldn't have done it without the reference from the CD ;D
John B
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Hi Geah, Janette, JohnB etc, I have just registered so i can reply to you all. I am Douglas Edward Graham (Ned) daughter so I'm 1st cousin to your poppa Geah. Alma Dorothy was known as Dolly and she was one of 12 children (6 of each) with Alma Grace nee Larsen born 1886 in Picton? Parents Neils b 1856 Denmark and Heinke b 1852 Hamburg. They married in 1884. Alma & John Henry Graham lived in Waitara and moved to a drystock farm in Honikiwi, Otorohanga in 1928. The farm is still in the Graham family, my brother is on it.
Dolly often visited the farm, I caught up with some of her children at my mothers funeral last yr.
I found this trail as I was googling any info about Neils & Heinke as I'm going to Denmark on the 1st August and would love to find out any info on them but not sure how to find this.
John Henry died in 1972, his eldest son John Henry died abt 10yrs later and his son (*)lives in Ngaurawahia.
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To add, all 12 children from Alma & John Henry Graham have died, the last one died in 2009 in Otorohanga Maisey Roberts.
Do you know how many brothers & sisters Alma Grace Larsen had and where they were born?
John Henry b 1882 in Wellington I think only had a bother and a sister. His parents have Irish heritage. Mother Janet Rooney b 1858 Liverpool Irish parents, father John Graham is a little unclear as far as i am aware but poss Irish also.
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It appears there were only 3 children as JB mentioned in #13
1885/3113 Larsen William Peter Heinka Sofie Frederika Niels Mickail
1886/6677 Larsen Alma Heinke Sofie Frederike Niels
1887/3536 Larsen Niels Heinke Sofie Frederike Niels
Cheers Janette
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L L Wine's parents marriage
1886/1085 Cathrine Barry Alfred James Wine
Just recieved this marriage certificate in the post literally 5 minutes ago.
Catherine & Alfred were married on 5th June 1886 at the dwelling of Rev Thomas Adams on Great North Road in Auckland.
Alfred was 23, born in Sydney
Catherine was 16 and born in Auckland.
Alfred's father was william L(?) Wine
Mother was Jane - I can't make out the maiden name just yet
Catherine's father was Garrett Barry
and her mother was Catherine Boswell
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Hello,
You can buy Alfred James Wine's birth cert here
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/searchHistoricalRecords.htm
It appears William and Jane has 2 other sons
Richard born 1865
William T born 1861
Cheers Janette
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This looks like William and Jane's marriage
284/1868 WINE WILLIAM to MUNCKTON JANE in SYDNEY
Cheers Janette
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Thanks for that, Janette :)
Georgia
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Hi Geah
Just to mention ... if you're contemplating purchasing NSW, BMD records, then using an accredited transcription agent, is by far the easiest and cheapest method. ;)
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent
[I've used the services of the "last-listed" person on there, many times, and generally results have been e-mailed within a week. It sure beats paying $ AUS 30 - odd. ;)]
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Garrett and Catherine married in 1868 in NZ.
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Thank you, Lucy. :) I will most certainly keep that in mind next time I'm looking for BDM records from NSW.
Cheers for that, Zephyr!
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Well this is a bit of a bummer - the marriage certificate for William Wine & Jane Munckton was on my desk when I got home earlier, but birthplace, age, parents names & father's occupation columns are all blank.
Only possible 'bright side' is that William was a widower, so perhaps a chance of finding his first marriage (wherever that may have been) and seeing if there were his birth place and parents names on there.
Georgia
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Hi Georgia
This may be his first marriage but I don't see a death for Susannah
V18559 82/1855 WINE WILLIAM to DORY SUSANNAH QC
Cheers Janette
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the birthplace, age, parents names & father's occupation columns are all blank.
Hello Georgia...
So what information is actually on the marriage certificate.
Is the date and place/church of marriage there. Religion? Residence?
Do the suburbs of Redfern or Liverpool get a mention as they get mentioned a bit on FamilySearch.
Regards
Beg
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Hi Janette and Beg,
Date & Place of Marriage: 9th March 1868, Sydney
Name & Surname of parites: William Wine / Jane Munckton
Conjugal status: Widower / Spinster
Religion is Presbytarian.
Ocuupation is Milk man i think for William
Can't read all of it, and I'm not familiar with Sydney at all so i'll upload here for you to see. It doesn't look like there's Redfern or Liverpool anywhere though.
Georgia
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Hi again...
Bourke Street (Surrey Hills) is mentioned in the 1866 funeral notice for Richard Henry WINE.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13132564
The funeral takes place two years before the marriage so either the child was born before the marriage or the name of William's first wife was also Jane
NSW BDM 3381/1865: WINE, Richard - father:WILLIAM - mother:JANE - district:REDFERN
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Palma Street for the location? It's in Darlinghurst and gets mentioned a few times in Trove. Nowadays Palmer Street. Runs parallel to Bourke Street (Darlinghurst) which a mile or so later becomes Bourke Street (Surry Hills)
Here's a snippet about the officiating minister, John McGibbon from http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/mcgibbon-john-4092
<i>
A successful minister, he was liked by his congregation who by 1860 built and largely paid off a substantial stone church and manse in Palmer Street (Darlingurst).
</i>
....nowadays most likely the C3 Church. I wonder if there is a church record for the marriage. Sort of like the Presbyterian church records in NZ. Maybe http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/7388650
Regards
Beg
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I wonder if there is a church record for the marriage. Sort of like the Presbyterian church records in NZ.
Hi again...
Debra on the Australian board has come up with the following.
She found a microfilm of the "Marriage Registers for the Palmer Street Presbyterian Church" covering the periods from 11 Mar 1856 - 13 Jan 1862 and from 6 Mar 1862 - 8 Mar 1882 (The Uniting Church is the post-1977 name for the Presbyterian Church in Australia)
Society of Australian Genealogists (SAG) 0167
http://catalogue.sag.org.au/fullRecord.jsp?recnoListAttr=recnoList&recno=42957
The microfilm is stored at the National Library of Australia in Canberra
http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/272187?lookfor=presbyterian%200167&offset=1&max=1
and maybe (or maybe not) the NSW State Library
No guarantee that it will list the parents (or even the marriage itself) but you might try asking on the Australian board for a look-up if you run out of ideas.
Regards
Beg
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Regarding Janet Barbara Rooney Graham,her father was born in Liverpool of Irish parents and her mother Scottish.
Annejay
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Hi Alma Dorothy (Graham) Wine is on my husband's line (his aunty), her parents are John Henry Graham and Alma Larsen, she was born on the 29th June 1913 in Te Kiri, New Zealand, she married Lawrence Wine on the 21 May 1934, and died on 17th Oct 1999.
Alma is the 6th of 11 children as follows:
John Henry Graham
Janet Sophia Graham
Thomas Neil Graham (my husband's father)
Mornington Graham
Hector Graham
Alma Dorothy Graham
Donald Douglas Graham
Jean Edith Graham
Maisie Constance Graham
Douglas Edward Graham
Crystal Joan Graham
If you go to https://familysearch.org/tree/#view=ancestor§ion=details&person=KZ1Q-KPR
you will be able to find all the information that we have added so far for this family. Happy researching
Robin and Janine Graham