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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex Lookup Requests => Sussex => England => Sussex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: katyduddridge on Thursday 02 June 11 16:02 BST (UK)
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Hi I wonder if anyone is able to check the 1891 census for Hastings for a family for me?
They are living at 82 Stonefield Road, St Mary in the Castle in February 1890 but I can't find them on ancestry in the 1891 census.
(I have tried to see if there is anyway to search myself online but can't) but have found the relevant references for that street:
RG 12/761 55-59, 72-80
RG 12/762 127-131
if that's any help?
The family is:
John William Cove GIBBINS b. approx 1860
Margaret Hannah (nee Mewburn) b. unknown
Victor Arthur b.1890
They may have moved out of Sussex as he was an 'actor' (which I take to mean could be a fairly moveable kind of career?) but John was living in Hastings in 1881 so I'm hopeful.
Thanks, Katy
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do you have them in a later census so that PoBs etc can be tried in 1891?
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No they disappear :(
It's been a brick wall until yesterday when I looked up Victor in the 1911 census.
As I've been looking for a Victor GibbOns with a father called Ernest (from his marr cert) I was stuck as he doesn't exist!
In 1911 he calls himself GibbOns but born in Hastings which led me to Victor GibbIns & I already had his birth cert (some over-enthusiastic ordering years ago when I was just guessing who he could be!) which gives his parents. On Victor's marriage cert he gives his father as Ernest GIBBONS (deceased) Actor.
His birth cert gives John William Cove GibbIns also an actor. (and I have found someone - waiting for reply - whose grandmother's birth cert gave this man's name and yet she also believed her father was called Ernest. So John or Ernest could have been his stage name?).
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Oh but I did forget that I found John in 1881 when he gives his birthplace as Leicester (though it's transcribed as Lancaster) and he's 20 hence approx DoB of 1860/1.
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They are living at 82 Stonefield Road, St Mary in the Castle in February 1890 but I can't find them on ancestry in the 1891 census.
Checked this address on 1891 census 82, Stonefield Road, Hastings
RG12 Piece:762 Folio:130 Page:52
Sorry no GIBBONS, only Parsons & Tichband family
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ah, the Ernest etc may help - I also thought it was Lancaster PoB in the 1881 census ....
Suspect that Margaret Hannah Mewburn may be seen in 1871 as Mewbourn c1863, Stockton - altho she also disappers by 1881 ::)
Comparing the Census with FreeBMD's list of Victors born and died between 1889 and 1891, doesnt throw up any anomalies - apart from a Victor Watson* missing from the BMD Index, your man is the only one missing from the 1891 census ... suggesting he's totally missing, or not called Victor :P The list of Arthurs is a bit longer ....
*Shown as a Grandson of the Standen family in Guestling - cant see his BMD entry anywhere in Sussex....
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Ladyhawk - thank you. I had to look them up myself just to see the address (!) but no you are right, they must have moved on, boo.
Mort29 - do you think it's Lancaster then? Not that it massively affects anything really as it's not like i have 2 choices of John's I'm fighting between!
Thanks so much for your efforts, that Margaret Hannah does look likely, esp as she's listed as MEWBURN in bmd born in Stockton.
(off to look at a map now as I have no real idea where these places are!)
kt:)
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The only 'strange' Arthur is this chap shown as GILLIM, a visitor to the Stevens Household in Hastings, St Mary in the Castle .... he's 10 months old ...
RG12/Piece: 762 Folio 12 Page 17
Who may be this lad >:(
Births Jun 1890
Gillham Arthur George Hastings 2b 22
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Wow...could that be him? It could be Gibbins.....
The story goes that the parents were killed by the lions (not so great at their lion-taming job then?!) and orphan Victor signed up to the army as a young boy.
Hmm...dinner is calling but I'll be back to think some more :)
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No, I dont think it is - see previous update.
and the Eleanor Clemetson (widow) was in Kent in 1881, married to a James .... cant see any real link :(
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Oh boo was getting all excited there for a minute!
How likely do you think it is that people could actually be missed out? If they were camping in a field with the circus & no-one knew they were there?
Have found Mary Mewburn (Margaret's mother) in 1881, husband absent & no sign of Margaret.
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A lot are missing on the census :(
frequently they are just mistranscribed, sometimes switch forenames around, +/-5 years age differences, PoB stated as early domicile, under step-parents name - but often just missed ....
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Well, grr, didn't those census takers back then realise how much we'd rely on them?!
So, after thinking yesterday I was finally going to make a breakthrough with this line, I appear to be stuck again.
Hopefully the person I'm waiting to reply to my email will get back to me with further info.
If I find anything else out, I'll try and remember to pop back :)
(Think I'm meant to move this to 'completed' now but not sure how to do that?) - figured it out :)
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Hi Katy
Just replied to your e-mail
Victor's sister Edith Lisbourne Gibbons was my grandma
But I am as stuck as you over the JWC Gibbons
HOWEVER I think that the middle name of Lisbourne may be a clue to further family
Ian
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Just remembered something
An Aunt - daughter of Edith told me that Ernest had appeared at their house (probably about 1915) asking for money as he was pennyless and they told him to go away. If this is true it spoils the story of being killed by lions. Anyway, if they were in a circus I doubt that they would live at addresses in towns, more likely in a caravan.
I was also told that he took his stage name (John William Cove) from a famous American actor.
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did you find Edith L in any census?
was she the oldest child?
Does she marry Caddow or Hudson in 1908?
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Katy - did you see this Ernest & Carmen (stage name?) in the 1901?
RG13/Piece: 3558 Folio: 109 Page: 13 - Wigan @ 19, Darlington Street.
Visitors in the Addis Household ... both Music Hall Artistes?? / Vocalists.
Ernest Gibbins Married 36 born Leicester
Carman Gibbins Married 32 London St Lukes
PS. Looking back at that 1881, his PoB IS Leicester (when you look closely) - and he can be found in 1871 (Parents William & Sarah, née Davenport, from Ratby), as can his Birth Index entry in Leic District in 1863...
In the 1891 census of Leicester, St Mary, William & Sarah, have a Grandson William c1886, born Stockton on Tees with them .... RG12/Piece: 2536 Folio 105 Page 10 - I note that Edith L was born up in Darlington District ...
No luck with more grandchildren in 1901 - Widow Sarah J Gibbins is with her married dau Florence ....
RG13/Piece: 3007 Folio: 68 Page: 3 - Leicester St Mary
So where did one leave one's troublesome kids when on the road? :P
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Wow!
I've spent years stuck on Victor and got further in the last few days than in all those years.
I will get looking at all those bits of info now (if all the kids stay asleep for me, I could do with farming them out when I want to concentrate on family tree!!) kt :)
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The Ernest & Carmen in 1901 certainly look likely.
So do you think Ernest or John William is the stage name? JWC surely? Though he seems happy to chop & change as and when it suits him!
Can I ask Mort - what sources are you using? On Ancestry/Free BMD I can't find the same things as you ???
Firefighter - thank you so much for your email!! My mother-in-law (ie your 2nd cousin) is very excited!, will email you back with more info about her/husband's family.
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yes, Ancestry & FreeBMD - use the RG census references if it helps, cant remember if there were any mistrans ...
The 1871 is RG10; Piece: 3282; Folio: 35; Page: 12
The BMD Birth Index entry:-
Births Dec 1862
GIBBINS John William Leicester 7a 170
Your new friend says that JWC Gibbins was the Stage name ...
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Hi Mort
Edith Lisbourne Gibbons was brought up by her adopted family as Daisy Scaife and is on both 1891 and 1901 census as that
She married Hudson
ian