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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: BucksExile on Wednesday 25 May 11 13:50 BST (UK)
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Hi all. I'm a new member to rootschat.
In a census record I came across a house called Cleveland in Crumpsall, M/cr. It seems to be an institution of some type. Does anyone know exactly what this building was, where it was & any history of the place?
A relative was described as a pauper, so was it a poorhouse?
Any info is welcome.
Many thanks
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Hi BucksExile.
There was a union Poor House in Crumpsall which later became a hospital . Can see no mention of it being called Cleveland though ,. If I try googling Cleveland Crumpsall all I'm getting is a hotel and local housing associations.
These links may be helpful.
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~peter/workhouse/index.html
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Crumpsall_Hospital_and_Institution
Jane
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Hello & welcome, can you tell us what year census you found this on?
Also what is the full address or houses/streets either side of this house?
I am from Crumpsall but ashamed i don't know this institution, i can only think of the workhouse that has now become North Manchester general hospital. The Cleverland pub on Crumpsall lane is a very large pub and maybe your house was just a small institution between the pub and the hospital/workhouse?
http://www.manchester-family-history-research.co.uk/new_page_5.htm
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/uksearch2003/crump.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterarchiveplus/5248819637/
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Hello. Ta for the welcome.
I found this record on the 1891 census. At the top it does say Institution, but the address says Cleveland, Crumpsall. I don't have a record for neighbouring streets, or an address. The record states 25 people there, some classed as Imbeciles. Could it have been a dosshouse?
I have a National Archive reference, but not sure how to use it. I'm a newbie to this.
Sorry I've no more info.
Thanks
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Easy way would be to post one of the names of the people at the institution and DOB doesn't have to be the person your researching ( that way we not been nosy ) and what year census you have them on at this Cleverland house ? Fingers crossed some one will turn something up for you?
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Hi willie bat.
I'll post the name of the person I'm researching. It will be easier, as there are no DOB's on the census. Where it says age last birthday, they've all been crossed out & are illegible.
Thomas Aldred, born 1828, Pendleton.
The census is from 1891.
Cleveland, Crumpsall was the address it gave.
There are numerous Imbeciles and 1 Idiot, which makes me think it may have something to do with Prestwich Asylum, but it's only a hunch.
Many Regards
Bucks
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Hi,
The enumeration book states:
Description: Preswich Union Workhouse.
Where situated: Cleveland Crumpsall
Mo
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Hi Mo.
Thanks for that. I never expected anything like that. 10 years earlier he's at home with wife & kids. Where'd it go wrong?
Many Thanks
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look in square 1c 1930 map http://www.artus-familyhistory.com/Manchester%201930/Main%20Map.html
it could have been just age?
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Unfortunately the records of inmates of the Prestwich Union Workhouse appear not to have survived.
For more information see: http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/448/archives_and_local_studies/3812/poor_law_and_workhouse_records/5
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Thanks one and all.
I think this answers my question. I'd heard of Prestwich asylum, but didn't know where it was. So 2 answers in one. It wasn't what I expected to find.
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Hi, Prestwich asylum and Crumpsall workhouse are not the same place they are about 7 miles apart.
The asylum was for mental patients and the workhouse was for the poor. Sometimes people were taken in to Crumpsall when ill and could not afford medical bills.
Will send you a PM with more info.
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Hi. I meant Prestwich Union Workhouse. I believe it was near Crumpsall workhouse now NMGH. A sad state of affairs to end up in a place like that.
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Still does not answer the question
But this link to Manchester Archives seems to indicate Cleveland was an area within Crumpsall
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0df7/
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Cleveland rd still exist and is 2 streets over from the Hospital. Looking at an old directory the Dover st mentioned on Mancsman's link ran Parallel to Clevaland road and is now renamed Parkhill Ave.
So from this i believe it's definitely the work house.
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So, Cleveland was an estate within Crumpsall.
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Like Goldy says Cleveland road plus Cleveland pub still exist.
What I cannot get my head round is having lived in this area for 50+ years I have never heard the now "hospital" etc called Cleveland
The 1891 census which is referred to only states 25 people, surely that cannot refer to either the Prestwich or Crumpsall workhouse both had capacity for hundreds at that time.
I would be thinking a small Georgian/Victorian property to house 25 people, on what is now Cleveland road, long lost in the winds of time - who is going to remember or be bothered about such a small unit.
Totally fascinated by this posting ;D
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On the 1891 census referred to it mentions 25 people there, but at the top right of the page it says page 5. So if there's 25 to a page, there's a 125.
It could still be Prestwich workhouse.
I'm thinking maybe the institution could have been divided into sections or areas with different names? Maybe Cleveland was one of these?
I'm intigued myself Mancsman.
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I want to say a big thanks to Williebat for helping me regarding some info. Done off his own bat too. Nice One!
This will encourage me to post more & share info. Surely the spirit of Roots.
Ta mate.
Bucks
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www.workhouses.org.uk has a lot of information on both the Prestwich Workhouse (Prestwich union) and the Crumpsall workouse (Manchester union). Tjhrere is a map showing they were next door to each other.
Gibel
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That sounds right now ;D - large building in the parish of Prestwich - it's got to be the Prestwich Union
Extract from http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=41414
Among the more recent landowners and residents of Crumpsall the Delaunays may be mentioned. Angel Delaunay, from Rouen, in 1788 introduced Turkey red dyeing into Crumpsall and Blackley, and built up a great business. His sons acquired part of William Marsden's estate in 1819, later known as the Cleveland estate. They built a bridge over the Irk for their coach road from Blackley to Cheetham Hill.
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Bet these files would make a good read
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0dgo/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0dgp/
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I found this.
Prestwich is just north of Manchester. Prestwich Asylum - see above
"The land chosen for the Hospital is in an area first known as Prestwich Wood in 1652. The land was owned by Thomas Compton until his death in 1776, when Nathaniel Milne bought the land, which then came into the possession of his son, Oswald in 1847. The Hospital was opened in 1851 to accomodate 500 patients, and originally built to face West with the main entrance on Clifton Road".
It had 500 patients in 1856.
1856 Report: " Each year the difficulties of receiving patients have increased, and numerous applications for admission have consequently been refused." Out of 58 deaths, 31 were general paralytics. [See Rainhill]
It had 510 patients in 1858.
"In 1863 it was extended to accommodate afurther 560 patients"
1881 Census: Medical officers were Herbert Rd Octavius Sankey, Henry George Murray and Benjamin Russell Baker (all surgeons)
1884 "the Annex was built. The Annex was built to house 1,100 patients and was served by bus due to it's distance from the main Hospital Site."
1889 Henry Rooke Ley, Prestwich, Superintendent of the County Lunatic Asylum at Prestwich.
"By 1903 the site could handle 3,135 patients from Salford,Manchester and South Lancashire, of which 50 per cent recovered and 6.57 per cent died."
1917-1919 Montagu Lomax assistant medical officer. Published The experiences of an asylum doctor in 1921. "He stated that the patients were poorly fed and poorly clad; that they were closely confined...that the nurses were mostly unqualified, unsuited to the nature of their work". He instanced specific cases of open cruelty to patients. (Jones, K. 1960 p.100)
by 1929 Lancashire County Mental Hopital
1949 Prestwich Hospital
early 1975 Manchester Mental Patients Union and Prestwich Hospital
20.11.1977 Minutes record aproach from Manchester Mental Patients Union about access.
6.12.1977 Manchester Mental Patients Union show film
5.4.1978 minutes record some continuing concern about Mental Patients Union access.
Since 1994: It is now the Mental Health Services of Salford, Bury New Road, Prestwich, M25 7BL. (map)
Prestwich Asylum link (archive)
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My mother was born in the crumpsall workhouse in 1917 on her birth cert the address is given as 123 crescent road crumpsall it became euphemism for the workhouse.The address would even appear on death cert to avoid disgrace.
I hope this of interest
tsb
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Hi TSB ( like the bank?), all info is gratefully received. I think this happened before 1904ish. It was a good idea.
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Hi TSB
Was your mother May Crompton?
James Crompton was my Great Great Grandfather.
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Paul
May Crompton was my mother and James Cromptonwas my granfather.Is there a reason for asking
tsb