RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: fifer1947 on Saturday 28 May 11 11:47 BST (UK)
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There is one phrase guaranteed to annoy me when associated with published family trees and genealogy. >:( It has to be the biggest turn off to anyone with a serious interest in their family genealogy and social history.
What is it I hear you ask? When this phrase appears in a family tree my brain shuts down!
"MOST LIKELY"
So come on what's yours? ;D
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Possibly
May be
Could be
Thought to be
Unconfirmed
I've put them together - cos they're all the same ::)
Reminds me of ads that say things like "may remove your wrinkles and give you younger looking skin IN JUST 7 DAYS! Aw Bunkum!!
Yours is more a positive post than mine fifer ;D
Jeanne
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The words that scunnered me were "not known" or"_________" >:(
Having followed several lines back and getting stuck, then when a penny drops and I realised how to move it on only to have a parent or wife/husbands name not known.
These were the most fustrating words i've come across :) :)
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The words...Can you open your Tree to me without even stating a possible connection. ::) they don't even deserve a reply
Possibly,May be,Could be,Thought to be,Unconfirmed
Sometimes I prefer to read these words than be left to assume that they had actually done some re-search and not copied from someone else's Tree what they thought would fit...all confirmed of course!
Ambers
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Of course Amber - very true, and you're right. And it does sometimes give a clue that we pursue further anyway !~ Bit of a sign post perhaps. That's good!! Thank You!
Jeanne :)
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An experience !
1. Are you related to John Smith, his wife was Mary. (I replied, please provide some dates, places, children ... you all know the usual proper questions)
2. My John Smith was born in 1703 and he married Mary in 1707. She was born in 1709. They had 38 children and then Mary died in 1692. (I replied, those dates do not make sense, cannot see any possible connection)
3. Are you sure you are not related to my John Smith. (I tried explaining that a person cannot marry AFTER they have died, and noting the bride and groom were very young)
4. You are wrong, they married young in those days. Lots of people died in 1692. (Silly me, I tried again)
5. You are still wrong. Mary died, then John died, then their kids died. (I tried once more)
6. Certificates are only pieces of paper. You need to have your head read. (I decided to stop trying)
Any wonder I don't have any trees online anymore !
Cheers, JM
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Thanks jaybelnz :)
I didn't mean to appear to put your wording down if it reads like that :-[
I am very guilty of using the term Not Known, but it's because I really don't know without spending a fortune on certificates for someone ten times re-moved or the like.
Ambers
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Hi majm,
That's the best laugh I have had for a long time.
You deserve ten out of ten for patience.
Ambers
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Agh, but I do know who my own John and Mary Smith were, and I do have certificates, and I even have certs that are NOT for them, (my wallpaper certs) and at least I can establish who John's parents and siblings were, but as for Mary .... oh her parentage is still a fairly well constructed brickwall ... she told some fibs ....
Cheers, JM
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"Most likely" is also annoying for me. I want confirmation.
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LMAO @ majm
Ohh so funny ,
Daizi
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"Most likely" is also annoying for me. I want confirmation.
That's what we'd all like, and sometimes we get it in the fullness of time. And sometimes we don't.
In the meantime, "most likely" is a legitimate place-marker. It is what it says on the tin, no more, no less.
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Thanks jaybelnz :)
I didn't mean to appear to put your wording down if it reads like that :-[
I am very guilty of using the term Not Known, but it's because I really don't know without spending a fortune on certificates for someone ten times re-moved or the like.
Ambers
No worries Amber, I certainly didn't see it as a put down!! Not at all!.
Jeanne :)
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I don't see why "Most Likely" or variations are annoying :-/
I'd rather see someone truthfully put Mary UNKNOWN or John's parents were most likely Samuel & Sarah and so on rather than just state it as fact when they don't really know.
After all, we wouldn't just blindly copy what they had written anyway - would we? So, it just forms part of a useful guide in our own research to find that missing link.
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I don't see why "Most Likely" or variations are annoying :-/
I'd rather see someone truthfully put Mary UNKNOWN or John's parents were most likely Samuel & Sarah and so on rather than just state it as fact when they don't really know.
After all, we wouldn't just blindly copy what they had written anyway - would we? So, it just forms part of a useful guide in our own research to find that missing link.
That's why it's so annoying. :-\ I would much rather have a blank or unknown.
"Most Likely" conveys the [wrong] message "almost certain" when we truly don't know without proof.
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A "most likely" can be very helpful though.
Suppose you go with the hypothesis that John Most-Likely is the correct ancestor, trace his parentage and find that his father left a will. You track down the will and it names all his grandchildren, thus confirming that the hypothesis was correct.
Who would complain about the hint that set them on the right path?
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Who would complain about the hint that set them on the right path?
I would imagine those like me who have in the past gone down the wrong path on the strength of a "most likely" and those who have done the extended research which proved the person's error of assumption. Wasting time and resources which could have been better spent.
By all means put in the ancestors notes any proven facts and references which may give clues to other possible research, I do, but I personally avoid giving my hypothesis, though of course I may think it!
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I cannot understand why phrases such as “Most Likely”, or the words “Possibly, May be, Could be, Thought to be, or Unconfirmed should be annoying to the serious family historian.
After all we all understand that records seldom confirm anything but simply lead to the most likely conclusion based on the balance of probabilities the above words reflect that.
Only the naive imagine anything in family history may be proven, it cannot.
We have to rely on memory, integrity and honesty in primary records (and there are precious few of those around) and the same plus excellent transcription skills in secondary, etc. records.
If one treats every database, pedigree and transcript as a pointer to the truth and use them to access the primary records then the chance of an accurate pedigree is increased.
But if one simply copies other’s work then there is little chance of ever coming to the correct conclusion.
Cheers
Guy
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See, I can cope with 'most likely', 'possible' or 'maybe'.
My most hated phrase (most often heard being said by my MIL) is "oh yes, I knew that, I could have told you that".
I hasten to add that MIL is not deliberately being difficult, but she knows a lot more than she realises and also thinks that we don't want to know things just in case they bore us!! ::)
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Who would complain about the hint that set them on the right path?
I would imagine those like me who have in the past gone down the wrong path on the strength of a "most likely" and those who have done the extended research which proved the person's error of assumption. Wasting time and resources which could have been better spent.
I didn't say anything about going down a wrong path, though. My example was of a path which turned out to be the right one. ::)
But surely following leads which turn out not to be the right ones is all part and parcel of research, anyway. Elimination is a helpful thing in itself. It certainly doesn't make me as angry as you sound.
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See, I can cope with 'most likely', 'possible' or 'maybe'.
My most hated phrase (most often heard being said by my MIL) is "oh yes, I knew that, I could have told you that".
seconded, thirded, fourthed!!
I don't have my tree on-line, so I can't lead anyone astray.
But, in my write-up I say that Bridget is most likely Patrick's mother (for all sorts of reasons, though the silly man didn't SAY she was his mother when he registered her death!)
And I say that "I think Sarah Jane is likely to be William's mother" (for other less certain reasons) - I don't think this is going to confuse anyone.
eadaoin
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My most hated phrase on any genealogy forum is:
"Looking for any information on John Smith"
That's it - no dates, possible family, place of birth etc. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ;D
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Groom
Your John Smith experience is worse than mine
JM
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How about those people to whom you send information, following a plea from them, only to be dismissed with a 'I can't help you'. I think - hello! I was trying to help you. Here's information to show you've got a wrong person - someone recently listed someone with our family name as marrying aged 28, despite him having died when he was 3. Would not believe she had the wrong person. Finally admitted she thought he was the right one because the 2 people she mixed up had the same first name, irrespective of fact that they had different second initial on the NSW BDM online!
Along lines of JM's John Smith saga, our research officer once received an email "my g-grandparents married in Brisbane in yyyy and they lived in a white house on a hill. Can you please give me the address?'
Anyone who knows Brisbane knows that there are thousands of white houses on hills!
I think my most hated saying would be "I know I'm right" - even when they can't prove it!
Dawn M
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I wonder if I'd be excused for saying - all the history from the family to date on this person has proved to be right so . . . . . ;) ;) ;) ;) sound familiar JM?? ::) ::)
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Oh Yes, Wiggy, definitely sounds familiar.... ;D and not just once or twice or thrice .... but perhaps most of the time.
Dawn M .... I can definitely confirm that my cousins' gt grandparents also lived in a white house on a hill in yyyy at Brisbane ..... BUT their white house and that particular hill was at Brisbane WATERS (Woy Woy, and not yyyy).... which of course is north of Sydney, just like Brisbane is also north of Sydney.
Brisbane Waters is where the Hawkesbury River meets the Tasman Sea, and thus JUST north of Sydney NSW Australia. And to confuse you all even more, the Hawkesbury River and the Nepean River were discovered separately by explorers, and are in fact one and the same river, just that the explorers were confused.
Brisbane is the capital city of Queensland, Australia, and both locations are most likely named after one of the early governors of New South Wales .... And to confuse you all even more, Queensland was once part of New South Wales, until Whitehall and QV approved separating off another colony from NSW (in 1859). Whitehall had allowed for VDL (Tasmania) to go off in 1825, New Zealand in 1841, Victoria in 1851 .... oh deary me ... if only things had been left alone, it would be so much easier to do family history searchings in Australia.
PS But there's around 550 miles between Brisbane and Brisbane Waters.
Cheers, JM
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A couple of years ago I ran across a tree where a fellow's wife's name in the listing had had the words "I dunno" inserted where her maiden surname should have been. Someone else, I discovered, had taken that literally (?) and put her into their own tree as "Lily I. Dunno" ::)
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A couple of years ago I ran across a tree where a fellow's wife's name in the listing had had the words "I dunno" inserted where her maiden surname should have been. Someone else, I discovered, had taken that literally (?) and put her into their own tree as "Lily I. Dunno" ::)
Oh I am having a grand laugh Deb D .... I reckon Lily I Dunno could most likely be related to AKA :) :) :) ... reminds me of the time I read about John Smith Alien .... he was of course NOT found on any Naturalization Certificates in various archives in Australia.
(Well he didn't need to be naturalised, he was already a British Subject, born in England, emigrated to NSW (came free) 1820's .....
I did ask that particular tree owner if the surname was " most likely" SMITH and they assured me it was Alien because that's how it was in those days. They were Aliens in NSW .... They had letters to prove it, he had signed them " I remain your obedient Servant, John Smith Alien in a foreign land"
Cheers, JM
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I have a dislike for RootsChat Topics headings similar to "HELP NEEDED URGENTLY!!!" - Yes, we all need help, but do we need it " URGENTLY!!! ". Your ancestors have been dead for that many years, so what's another couple of days, weeks, etc......... A polite request is all that is required.
Les
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MAJM your tale gave me a good laugh, it shows that it doesn t matter how much you explain, they still dont get it.
My pet heateis like Spidermonkeys. "Oh yes i remember that" well alongthose line anyway and it is always after the fact. I also dont like it when you do research on what little info given and they get back to you...."Oh i knew that, and that" etc....grrrr.
I wish my mother would write down all she remembers, and my dad for that matter, it would be wonderful.
Rotosis
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Well you see I do have a very long list of quirky things as I am a direct descendant of a John and Mary Smith ....
;D ;D ;D
I think my top pick would actually be a transport question "Did they come by horse or did they walk all the way along those roads" I was sharing information with someone who seemed to be quite sensible .....I had written about the (sea) roads. I wrote back "They were under the command of Captain Middleton on the Harmony arriving 27 Sept 1827 from London 4 June"
So if you ever perhaps read about a horse named Harmony who was led by Captain Middleton all the way London to Sydney in 1827, pay NO heed, it would be someone MISUNDERSTANDING...
Cheers, JM
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Think Lily I Dunno and AKA must be related to Ditto, I've seen loads of them around ;D
I have to admit I go along with Guy and don't mind seeing not known/most likely etc., its when a name is put down as copied in stone and is blatently wrong that object to or getting mails from people who INSIST they are right when they have no proof whatsoever.
I try to make sure I double check everything from other sources anyway. On the whole though, I've come across more fellow researchers who don't mind a healthy discussion on a "not known or most likely" than the head in the sand name collectors .
Think my dad must be of the same generation as your MIL spidermonkey! That phrase "of course I knew that, didn't think you wanted that kind of info" is the most frustrating sentence I've heard.
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Well I really wish my gran were still alive - she knew so much family history in her head and I wasn't listening when I was 30 - dammit! She knew who was related to whom and how - oh Gran . . . tell me all again!!! ;) ;D ;D
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I don't mind possibly, unknown, thought to be or could be, I could put up with I Dunno and even AKA........ the thing that gets me is The Blank Space........ you know the one, you see it all the time on certs that one, through the bit where the fathers name should be ::)
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So funny some of these stories ~ my hated phrase comes from members of my own family "..............I NEED a copy of the family tree, my Mum tells me that you have done "some" research and I WANT a copy"
Arrgghhhh - "some" research amounts to over 15 years and lots of hard slog and eye strain reading various mircrofiches etc and travelling many miles to records offices ~ which has led me back to the time of Henry VIII. The one time I replied to a cousin and let her have a copy I found it faithfully reproduced on a website the very next day with her taking plaudits for all her hard work and extensive research ~ never again and never do I publish my family tree online!!!
Also hate the blank space on a birth cert where the father's name should be........ that would solve so many puzzles.
Nothing can replace your own joy and satisfaction at making a small hole in that brick wall off the back of your own research and persistence ...... keep the faith listeners
Margaret
x
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So funny some of these stories ~ my hated phrase comes from members of my own family "..............I NEED a copy of the family tree, my Mum tells me that you have done "some" research and I WANT a copy"
Margaret
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Aren't they the pits?! My favourite aunt turned out to be my cousin - not dad's sister but his sister's out of wedlock child. Two of her children accepted the news with equanimity, but the eldest (girl) said I must be wrong and demanded a copy of all the certificates etc. I asked for a contribution towards photocopying etc. and have not heard from her since though I still send a Christmas card and letter each year, and correspond with her siblings (who also think she's lost the plot) ::) ::) :P
Dawn M
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my hated phrase comes from members of my own family "..............I NEED a copy of the family tree, my Mum tells me that you have done "some" research and I WANT a copy"
:o
I'm delighted when other family members are interested! Much of the pleasure for me comes from sharing, and I've shared gedcoms with all my cousins who take an interest (I only wish they all did). Who else is it for if not for one's own family? I couldn't give a rat's arse if someone puts it online, nor whether people think it's "their" work. I really couldn't care less.
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The one that bugs me is when I am searching Scottish census returns and I come across the where born column and it just says IRELAND,c'mon at least give me a county ???
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My most hated phrase (most often heard being said by my MIL) is "oh yes, I knew that, I could have told you that".
My mother is always doing that to me. But does anyone else have one that says "oh, no, you don't want too put him in the family tree - he wasn't very nice!" (or words to that effect).
Milly ;D
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'..formerly Jones' in the space for the mother's name on a birth certificate :'( She's usually Ann or Mary as well.
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I really appreciate all your input, some are hilarious. ;D (though no doubt infuriating for the poster! :-\).
We are all human and have likes and dislikes, quirks and foibles, which is why I asked the question. It's good to share, off load, have a giggle or moan.
It's your thread to post what annoys YOU and not up for debate by the rest of us.
Please continue to post your "most hated/disliked" I'm loving it, sympathising with some and laughing my socks off at others. :-*
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I hate "please log in to view this page"...and even worse "please purchase credits to view this page" :o
Milly
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I hate "please log in to view this page"...and even worse "please purchase credits to view this page" :o
Milly
LOL me too! :D ;D ;D ;D
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Not on the same theme, but if you are up for a giggle read on.
I made Contact with someone via a site explaining that I had found a possible connection and could they identify with the details I had given them.
The reply
Oh yes, we are connected. He went on to tell me the story of his wife's death and son living with him ect, but no reference to any thing I had enquired about......and then asked. ;D
Can me and my son come around for tea one afternoon, so that we can have a chat. :o
Short reply and a quick escape on my part....I doubt we were even in the same Country.
Ambers
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Most hated phrase for me is when I've paid certain archives to do some research and they reply with something along the lines of " Sorry but no information has been found, how ever we will still charge the full fee" ::)
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Not on the same theme, but if you are up for a giggle read on.
I made Contact with someone via a site explaining that I had found a possible connection and could they identify with the details I had given them.
The reply
Oh yes, we are connected. He went on to tell me the story of his wife's death and son living with him ect, but no reference to any thing I had enquired about......and then asked. ;D
Can me and my son come around for tea one afternoon, so that we can have a chat. :o
Short reply and a quick escape on my part....I doubt we were even in the same Country.
Ambers
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Let me guess, was that a NO then? ;D ;D ;D
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LOL sounds like a resounding NO! to me. :P
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When first starting family research all the books say start with your own family. The whole family plus a few had got together at a funeral and I discussed my idea with a few of the older generation who all seemed in favour.
Very keen I went home and put together a nice little easyish questionnaire (well I thought so) and sent them out.
After a few weeks of not hearing anything I phoned one of them to find out how it was going with the questionnaire.
Her reply " Oh...I didn't bother filling it out, I didn't think you would need that sort of information" ::) ::)
Bless :-X
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Phrases I hate 'It will cost you' or 'Your monthly subscription is' :'(
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"All of the records were destroyed by enemy bombing in WW2" :'(
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...... "It's a long shot but.............."
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Lots
Census says born in Ireland - great but where? A clue would be nice!
No Image available - grrrrrrr why were they so careless with the images?
That'll cost you.... £/$/Euros only to find there's nothing when you decide to pay
Send me your Tree urgently from a total stranger - erm why - maybe explain how you think there's a connection. Given they've kind of been gone a while why is this urgent?
You're wrong! (when you have certs which proves you so aren't and they still won't accept it) - been trying to get an American lady to change something on Ancestry for 6 years now. She's having none of it tho I have the evidence to prove and I can see where she went wrong - I almost did but a rootschatter saved the day! Ah well her loss cos thanks to Lodger I got back another 3 gens!
I want to do my tree for free - sorry but you can't!
Those are my pet hates
Ann :D
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My most hated phrase (most often heard being said by my MIL) is "oh yes, I knew that, I could have told you that".
Similar: "But of course, you knew that"
"I've told you that before"
Erm.... NOOOOOOO!!!! >:( ;D ;D ;D
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Eeeek...................about 3 months ago I thought I would look into my family history - my other half is so pleased I`ve found a nice pleasant pastime..................should I tell him now or later that I will be wound up with frustration for the foreseeable future because of possibly/ could be/solid brick walls etc etc....... and permanantly attached to the laptop............. ???
kwotto
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My most hated phrase.........
Hubby......"what!!! You want another certificate!"
No dear, ::) all the information for all of my relatives comes on one cert ;D
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Bother, the another was meant to be underlined ::) but you get the idea............. ;D
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My most hated phrase.........
Hubby......"what!!! You want another certificate!"
;D ;D
..........Gails, you`ve just reminded to email my other half re: cost of new hobby...........I should have bought a horse - I think it might have been cheaper :o ;D
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My most hated phrase.........
Hubby......"what!!! You want another certificate!"
;D ;D
..........Gails, you`ve just reminded to email my other half re: cost of new hobby...........I should have bought a horse - I think it might have been cheaper :o ;D
Don't bet on it........... I've got two - horses that is!! ;D
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Sorry mlr0663, I've been guilty of a few "its a long shot but..."'s
My hated one is "oh, you're doing your family tree? How far have you got back?" People who aren't really interested only ever ask you about how far you've got back! I make a point of telling them about a relative and their life....they usually don't ask again!
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My most hated phrase.........
Hubby......"what!!! You want another certificate!"
;D ;D
..........Gails, you`ve just reminded me to email my other half re: cost of new hobby...........I should have bought a horse - I think it might have been cheaper :o ;D
Don't bet on it........... I've got two - horses that is!! ;D
;D
I can`t afford to bet on it Tephra!!.................unless your two are race horses and you`ve got any good tips??? ;D
kwotto
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One was......... came in 2nd, then 3rd........... then decided sod this for a lark and ended up 13th!!!
Tips........ yeah, don't gamble and be nice to yer muvver ;D
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Ha Ha!! Like the tips........Am taking mamma to tescos this afternoon.........does that count?? ;D
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It's a start ;)
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Eeeek...................about 3 months ago I thought I would look into my family history - my other half is so pleased I`ve found a nice pleasant pastime..................should I tell him now or later that I will be wound up with frustration for the foreseeable future because of possibly/ could be/solid brick walls etc etc....... and permanantly attached to the laptop............. ???
kwotto
Best to let the realization slowly dawn on him. The gradual process will be far less painful. ;)
As for you - simply enjoy (and welcome to our world). ;D ;D ;D
Mrs. T.
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I like your thinking Mrs.T ;) and thank you for my welcome...............between you and me, I really am enjoying being a detective - brick walls and all!!
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"base born" on a baptism
"widow" on a marriage
"records destroyed" anywhere
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What really fills me with despair is that little word "Submitted"
What they really mean is "this is a cross between guesswork and wishful thinking!"
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Most hated phrase for me is when I've paid certain archives to do some research and they reply with something along the lines of " Sorry but no information has been found, how ever we will still charge the full fee" ::)
I emailed a certain RO to ask if they held copies of a local newspaper for December 1852. They replied
"Unfortunately we do not have copies of the Journal for the month you are interested in. We can research the document you are interested in for 16 pounds per hour".
I didn't respond....
Cati
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My hated one is "oh, you're doing your family tree? How far have you got back?"
Or
"You've been doing your family tree for 25 years? Haven't you finished yet?"
Cati
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In Archives "I'm afraid we can't let you have that document, its covered by the 30 year rule".
Oh no it isn't, there's no such thing as the 30 Year Rule in the sense that they use, and it is not up to archivists to decide access rights covered by the Public Records Act anyway.
Robert
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I hate the same phrase as cati"have you finished your family tree yet." Shows lack of understanding i think. The same person has asked me twice! Oh yes and that other phrase how far have you got back. It don't mean a thing to them.
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I hate the same phrase as cati"have you finished your family tree yet." Shows lack of understanding i think. The same person has asked me twice! Oh yes and that other phrase how far have you got back. It don't mean a thing to them.
Little do they know we are usually sorting out the mess someone else has put up as "genealogy"!! ::)
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Yes i agree with you fifer. In my case name changes and different places of birth.
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Or 'Have you found anyone famous yet?'
I've not yet had the courage to reply 'Yes, great great grandad was well known to the local police'.
Cati
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Yes i agree with you fifer. In my case name changes and different places of birth.
Wrong spouses and wrong parents ........... and that's just today! ::)
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Little do they know we are usually sorting out the mess someone else has put up as "genealogy"!! ::)
Are you? Why? I find my own tree has plenty to keep me busy, I couldn't give a fig what other people choose to do.
To give an example. I've got a chap for whom I haven't yet found a baptism. I've seen him in a number of online trees, and they have all identified him as the only one featured on IGI that roughly ticks the boxes. Except it's definitely not him, because he can be found in the 1841 & 1851 censuses, while our chap didn't live so long. I'm not wasting my time trying to convince these people though, why bother?
I have plenty of internal evidence to identify our chap, though .... One day, I hope, a final, clinching piece of evidence will turn up to link him with what is surely his family, but until then, in your favourite phrase ;) he is
"MOST LIKELY"
8)
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What really fills me with despair is that little word "Submitted"
What they really mean is "this is a cross between guesswork and wishful thinking!"
Unfortunately this post shows the poster does not understand the way the IGI is compiled and would rather insult people than take the time to find out.
Submitted simply means the record has come from an individual rather than a mass extraction.
Some very careful family historians have submitted accurate records to the IGI.
To make such broad sweeping statements throws doubt on her own research methods.
Cheers
Guy
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Are you? Why? I find my own tree has plenty to keep me busy, I couldn't give a fig what other people choose to do.
It amazes me the number of people who get all flustered over someone putting something "wrong" on a public tree. All they are doing is making themselves look silly to any serious researchers. Anyone who will blindly copy from another tree simply can not be serious in their research.
Of course if something is published that includes your living rellies you may wish for it to be removed.
Sure, I'll look at online trees - they can be a great guide, but I'll see what sources they claim and then check those sources for myself, if I can't prove it to myself then either it doesn't go on my tree; or if I'm sure but still can't prove it I'll "pencil" them in with notes and task reminders that I need to find evidence to support my theory.
Unfortunately this post shows the poster does not understand the way the IGI is compiled and would rather insult people than take the time to find out.
Submitted simply means the record has come from an individual rather than a mass extraction.
Some very careful family historians have submitted accurate records to the IGI.
To make such broad sweeping statements throws doubt on her own research methods.
To be fair not all submitted entries are accurate or trustworthy. This isn't so much a case of the the poster insulting people as it is a case of a few questionable entries pouring doubt on the rest. There is no way of knowing whose submitted entries are good and whose are questionable therefore they all have to be treated with the same caution - just in case.
Just yesterday I was looking in the PR for a particular marriage that was a submitted entry on the IGI and it certainly doesn't appear in the parish that was stated.
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Little do they know we are usually sorting out the mess someone else has put up as "genealogy"!! ::)
Are you? Why? I find my own tree has plenty to keep me busy, I couldn't give a fig what other people choose to do.
To give an example. I've got a chap for whom I haven't yet found a baptism. I've seen him in a number of online trees, and they have all identified him as the only one featured on IGI that roughly ticks the boxes. Except it's definitely not him, because he can be found in the 1841 & 1851 censuses, while our chap didn't live so long. I'm not wasting my time trying to convince these people though, why bother?
Quite simply because the information was not on tree/s but is on a public genealogical database and also an error on SP indexing. The information is erroneous and therefore costly if you are pursuing the wrong person from the information given. I downloaded 3 certificates yesterday wrongly assuming the correct parents were given. As said before it's not "most likely", it is in fact wrong!
Obviously because I do care about others following in my footsteps researching this branch of their family, I have advised both websites of this and forwarded the relevant certificates. Not "giving a fig" is about as useful as a chocolate teapot and really not the attitude we are used to seeing on here. I could understand if I was talking about private trees but these incidences were not.
Anyway can I just ask why you asked me why? As you said you have enough to keep you busy on your own tree, why would you even bother commenting on how others deal with errors they find on public databases or trees?
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I could understand if I was talking about private trees but these incidences were not.
Fair enough, but you did not make that clear. Your opening post explicitly referred to "published family trees".
As you said you have enough to keep you busy on your own tree, why would you even bother commenting on how others deal with errors they find on public databases or trees?
Because sometimes I feel like it. 8)
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There is no way of knowing whose submitted entries are good and whose are questionable therefore they all have to be treated with the same caution - just in case.
Just yesterday I was looking in the PR for a particular marriage that was a submitted entry on the IGI and it certainly doesn't appear in the parish that was stated.
It's easy to spot those that are not based on church records etc, but on things such as census data ... but these entries are of course good enough for the purposes of the LDS inasmuch as they represent a person who existed.
As for submitted entries that look feasible but can't be found in the PR. I have on occasion found them in the BTs or as marriage bonds/allegations. Sometimes things just didn't make it into the PR for one reason or another. :-\
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I could understand if I was talking about private trees but these incidences were not.
Fair enough, but you did not make that clear. Your opening post explicitly referred to "published family trees".
As you said you have enough to keep you busy on your own tree, why would you even bother commenting on how others deal with errors they find on public databases or trees?
Because sometimes I feel like it. 8)
Oh dear! Who got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?! ::)
First off I do not have to justify what I posted in reply to weste. However on the post you specifically answered above I made no reference whatsoever to published trees.
What I said in answer to weste was
"Little do they know we are usually sorting out the mess someone else has put up as "genealogy"!"
Where exactly does that mention trees?? ??? Please do not misquote me - thanks! ;)
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Surely if in reference to something "someone else has put up as "genealogy"" then it's more than likely referring to public trees and not to parish register/census transcriptions on pay to view sites.
After all those kind of sites don't put things like "most likely" (to be son/daughter of or whatever), they just transcribe what's in the document.
Isn't it a general risk of pay to view sites (if by credits rather than subscription) that you may waste some by viewing the wrong transcripts/images?
If it's SP and you can show them that something is wrong and that error caused you to waste credits they are good at refunding them.
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The parish clerk in a large parish from my home town who decided to put Samuel Austin and wife. I looked down the list and saw next to each birth entry he had entered the father detail and listed each wife this way. So no idea who any ones mother was and this went on for years.
Regards panda
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Surely if in reference to something "someone else has put up as "genealogy"" then it's more than likely referring to public trees and not to parish register/census transcriptions on pay to view sites.
After all those kind of sites don't put things like "most likely" (to be son/daughter of or whatever), they just transcribe what's in the document.
Isn't it a general risk of pay to view sites (if by credits rather than subscription) that you may waste some by viewing the wrong transcripts/images?
If it's SP and you can show them that something is wrong and that error caused you to waste credits they are good at refunding them.
I was quoting/answering weste's post, not going back to the opening post. ::)
Not that it is any of your business but I did inform SP, had a lovely email back and yes my credits were refunded.
The other database is for a Genealogy Group for a Scottish island BMD/parish records/census data where some assumptions had been made incorrectly. I have had a lovely email back today thanking me for sending the corrected information and looking forward to receiving the family sheet when complete and proven so they can correct and link up the census and family data.
................. and this is "The Lighter Side" board? :P God help us if they ever put up a "Controversial" board. :D
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Hey I didn't say it was any of my business but the fact remains that you posted on a public forum which any one can read and any registered member can post too.
If you do not want to discuss things maybe don't post them? Or if you see it as a personal reply to a certain poster maybe pm them instead - that way you can avoid us busybodies reading and replying with our own thoughts and opinions ;)
I was merely stating my observations not asking you to tell me what you did or did not do or asking for justification.
I'm not quite sure why you seem quite so offended.
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I could understand if I was talking about private trees but these incidences were not.
Fair enough, but you did not make that clear. Your opening post explicitly referred to "published family trees".
As you said you have enough to keep you busy on your own tree, why would you even bother commenting on how others deal with errors they find on public databases or trees?
Because sometimes I feel like it. 8)
Oh dear! Who got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?! ::)
First off I do not have to justify what I posted in reply to weste. However on the post you specifically answered above I made no reference whatsoever to published trees.
What I said in answer to weste was
"Little do they know we are usually sorting out the mess someone else has put up as "genealogy"!"
Where exactly does that mention trees?? ??? Please do not misquote me - thanks! ;)
Whatever (http://bestsmileys.com/bored/2.gif)
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So why pick holes?? ???
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Hello everyone :)
I wouldn't class myself as a genealogist; I just started to research my family tree to answer some of my relatives questions (and got a touch carried away...).
The most frustrating thing someone has said to me is:
'you ONLY have *** people in your tree? I've got ************'! (before going on to suggest they as they have ************* people in their tree, they must be 'right' despite the fact I have found records suggesting otherwise)!
Alice
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I hate the old 'Oh, I could have told you that...'
Or...even more irritating...
After spending about 5 years researching the family in great depth, spending tons on transport and certificates and copies of documents... having someone say 'Oh, so you're not finished then?'
Sadly my whole family seem to be like that.... ;)
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OK, I've got one .... At the archives:
"I'm afraid they're not in any particular order" (http://bestsmileys.com/sad/5.gif)
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Oh yes ::)
- I can identify with that one!!! ;D ;D ;D
Wiggy
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"Records are far from complete". And of course the ones that are there are never the ones I'm interested in. :(
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Yep ... I keep running up against that one too, Roobarb!
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When you show your relatives the family tree and they say " Well THAT can't be right" ::)
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At the archives
sorry but we can't let you have a photo copy you will have so sit and transcripe 40 years of hospital records + post mortum and inquest records
Such a shame as there was hand written letters from relatives to him and I couldn't have a copy
(off to sulk in a corner)
I'll be dead by the time the 100 year rule reaches its deadline knowing my luck ;D ;D ;D
regards panda
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I feel like karma is catching up with me.
I just wrote my first "unknown" into my tree. Up until now, I only put real and confirmed entries in. Today I entered my poor gggrandmother in as unknown because I have a photo of her and wanted that in the data base so that I don't lose it. I managed to track down the date of the photo from the photographer's address - 1865 - he only operated for one year. And the pencil writing on the back just says "Grandma Goldsmith".
No first name, no maiden name. And now karma is making me wish I had her name instead of "unknown".
Sigh.
Nevermind. It isn't published. It's a working file. And i WILL find her name one day ... soon.
Aimeecat
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It's very sad aimeecat but I'm sure you'll find your "unknown" given time. :-*
I don't have a published tree so don't really have to worry about others getting the wrong info. Where I strongly suspect a relationship, all the evidence points to it but I cannot prove it, I now write "unproven" which is far more accurate than "most likely" ;D
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Ooohh I like that one Fifer - can I please use it!!
Unproven - got a few of those!!
Wiggy :)
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Feel free Wiggy ;D
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Yes Fifer
Unproven is good.
My worst nightmare was finding my ggrandparents marriage with a foot note attached, which said "make sure you are really married".
Apparently, the record was that of a charlatan earning quick pennies performing fake marriages.
I still can't find their marriage.
Aimeecat
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I hate the same phrase as cati"have you finished your family tree yet." Shows lack of understanding i think.
When faced with that comment I usually use "You've been in that same job for umpteen years - haven't you finished it yet?" Most of them can't produce documentary proof that they've actually done ANYTHING at work!
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I once had a contact who had my 'born married and died in Wolverhampton'
ancestor, in their tree as having died in the USA, even though I had entered all my proven sources. I contacted them to point this out, and got the reply "Oh, I did wonder if that was right"!
giraffe
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Today's one, after receiving a message from a very very distant relative " I don't live far from you, shall I pop round for tea?" :o :o :o
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1) once being daft enough to mention a forthcoming archive visit on an open forum, and that I'd be willing to do a lookup if I had any time left. Almost immediately came a request for 'any Browns between 1690 - 1890. When, as tactfully as I could, I enquired as to further details eg Christian names, which bit of the county they live in and when back came the answer that they didn't know, they just wondered if there WERE any???
2) My OH's aunt asked me to lookin into her family tree. Having put no end of time, effort not to mention cost into it, and considering her age, thought I'd better give her what I'd done so far, rather than thanking me she just said 'Is that ALL you've done!?!'
3) the same scenario with another in-law got 'well that's a disappointment! You didn't find out whether my grandfather was the result of an affair my gt grand ma had with a neighbour!' erm, no, I didn't so shoot me :'(
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Today's one, after receiving a message from a very very distant relative " I don't live far from you, shall I pop round for tea?" :o :o :o
LOL Rachey,
I wondered if we share the same very distant rellie, because I also had a similar message from someone. ::) ::) ::)
Although they didn't even know what part of the Country I live.
Ambers
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Today's one, after receiving a message from a very very distant relative " I don't live far from you, shall I pop round for tea?" :o :o :o
LOL Rachey,
I wondered if we share the same very distant rellie, because I also had a similar message from someone. ::) ::) ::)
Although they didn't even know what part of the Country I live.
Ambers
:D :D :D did he also offer to take you out for dinner? :o
Tell them you don't live in this country any more or have gone away on a very long holiday ;D
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Tell them you don't live in this country any more
That would be worse, as they would then be asking if they could come and visit you for a holiday. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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OK! I admit it - just wrote the dreaded word "probably" against a record - but I HAVE got an excuse lol
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Having had a huge interest in FH eve as a child I've decided that my most hated phrase is, when enquiring about a distant aunt or uncle etc.
'Why do you ask? There's no money you know!'
??? ???
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"If I'd known someone was interested then I would not have thrown it out/ burnt it / torn it up......."
Arrrrrggghhh
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OK that beats mine lol
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Hello all
The worst one iv come up against so far is " BASEBORN "
Darren
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Don't let that deter you Darren! When I found out that my great grandfather was illegitimate I thought I'd have terrible difficulty in tracing his family, particularly as he had a common surname. I was pleasantly surprised that I was able to find his mother and her family. I haven't had any success in tracing who his father was but don't discount the materal line. :)
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I think the most infuriating phrase for me is when I go back to relatives with some new information and they go "Oh...that's right now I remember".
Where's my shovel? ;D
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Mine is the dreaded "Is your Elizabeth Mclaren or whoever, my one, give me access to your tree" (on the dark side I hasten to add). Email back saying no there is no connection and get the demand "give me access to your tree" .......... instant ignore from me on that one.
Caz ;D
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Possibly added already but mine is along the lines of
"that's not what the census says"..........usually when you have a dozen children listed to a couple (backed up by certs, baptisms and probate records), the other person has the couple down as childless or perhaps only having an odd youngster as everything thay have is based purely on the census returns.
Another one, "my great great grandfather was married to Mary"............Mary is then spoken of as a complete alien lifeform before the realisation sets in that she is of course great great granny :)
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Today's one, after receiving a message from a very very distant relative " I don't live far from you, shall I pop round for tea?" :o :o :o
Whats wrong with meeting people?
You need to get out more.
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I don't have a problem with meeting people :)
I just have a problem with meeting strangers over the internet
Edited so it doesn't sound too narky :)
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If I made contact with a relative or someone made contact with me. Provided that they are interested in their roots and I don't get the impression that they're a weirdo, then I'm more more than happy to meet up with them.
I would however suggest email as a more convenient method of communication but if they really wanted to meet up and I thought that I might get more info out of them face to face, then so be it. Obviously, if I felt put out or really really didn't want to meet them, then I'd politely put it off.
If I was concerned about being alone with them, then I would meet them in a public space.
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If I made contact with a relative or someone made contact with me. Provided that they are interested in their roots and I don't get the impression that they're a weirdo, then I'm more more than happy to meet up with them.
I would however suggest email as a more convenient method of communication but if they really wanted to meet up and I thought that I might get more info out of them face to face, then so be it. Obviously, if I felt put out or really really didn't want to meet them, then I'd politely put it off.
If I was concerned about being alone with them, then I would meet them in a public space.
The middle bit's a good point. :)
I dunno, if I was older then maybe I'd feel more open to meeting off the internet, but at 20, would you really want to meet up with a 40+ year old male who you really aren't closely related to ( 6th cousin removed or something ) and who then asks you to dinner repeatedly? ???
:)
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at 20, would you really want to meet up with a 40+ year old male who you really aren't closely related to ( 6th cousin removed or something ) and who then asks you to dinner repeatedly? ???
:)
The short answer to that is NO.
TBH, I've met up with a few relatives, some were a great great great help, others....well....were just very annoying. I would come away wondering why the hell did they not just email me that >:(, they could be young too and know how to use the internet. Of course with an older person, meeting up is really your only option.
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The short answer is also what he got too ;D
I think meeting up with a close relative is fine, but meeting up with a very distant one seems a bit pointless :)
Hopefully you'll get more of the helpful relatives in future... You never know, you may even get one who offers to take you out for dinner :D :D
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::)
I am a professional genealogist with a business in adjacent to an historic site -
my most hated phrase is - and usually from an American tourist ( sorry to any Americans reading this)
" Of course, I am related to Lord ****** up at the Castle"
at this point my eyes glaze over and I try to slide under my desk............. :)
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This was the one that hurt me the most. :-\
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I have been in touch with lots of very distant relatives, luckily so far, none of them have wanted to meet up.
But then, I think most of them are very elderly and don't travel or live on the other side of the world. I would be very cautious of meeting up with ANYONE who I "met" on the internet. I would NEVER go on my own.
Lisa
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I would be very cautious of meeting up with ANYONE who I "met" on the internet. I would NEVER go on my own.
we've met a few, some relatives, some not - all roughly our own over-60s age group. We've usually invited them to lunch after a bit of to-ing and fro-ing, and it's been fine.
eadaoin
(one of my hated remarks is "I see you have his marriage, but he actually married a Mary, not a Jane" ... or variations on this)
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Well, I've met up with people I met on the internet, and successfully. The first one was when I went out to South Africa, on my own and my first ever visit to the country, to meet a lady I met via Genes Reunited, and we've met up again in both South Africa and England - we were both researching the same man, he's in my family tree and she lives on a farm once owned by him in the 1800's. And the second was also via Genes Reunited, I think and resulted in a trip to Australia, although on this occasion my husband was with me - she was a distant cousin by marriage. Plus I've contacted and met up with newly-discovered relations in this country (England), some when I was by myself and some with my husband. Perhaps I'll make it out to Canada at some stage ;D
BumbleB
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From grandfather's sister when I asked where her father was born "can't remember the name of the place but there were green hills and a river" :-\ since it was in Ireland that wasn't much of a clue :'(
"Sorry the records were lost when the town hall burnt in 1853"- to query about records from 1920s ???
From a researcher wanting information "it doesn't matter if it's for the right person my client is in Canada and won't know the difference" (they know now because about 6 months later they wrote to me directly ;D )
"It's in a suitcase of my mother's that's under the guestroom bed" in response to asking for family information, photographs, etc. Would have thought it was a myth but 2 things have actually been produced from this suitcase :P
"The family Bible gave names and dates and the places they came from in Ireland... but I burnt it after mother died" Anyone like to guess how hard it is to trace a family named Kelly from Ireland that went to New York City without details :-\
"I met someone who said they're related to us the other day, they knew all the details on the family...no, I didn't get their name or phone number but they were buying dog food so I think they must have a dog"
"You never said you wanted to see photographs"
"Did I say that? I don't remember saying that." >:(
"your information can't be right because my father told be something different" despite of the fact that I have 1) birth and marriage certificate giving birthplace and 2) father didn't own property until after child was born and 3) house was not built
Unfortunately all true but names have been left out to prtect the guilty ;D
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(one of my hated remarks is "I see you have his marriage, but he actually married a Mary, not a Jane" ... or variations on this)
Slightly off centre - but I was looking up a family on An****ry yesterday - and I found the said person had indeed been married to Mary - trouble is he was married five times - and all of them were Mary!! And the dates and times of children's births were all over the place with various Mary's as mother! No continuity at all - very disturbed marriage that was. ;D ;D
Also Mother's place of residence given as Manchester - despite the fact that she was producing children quite regularly in Victoria Australia!! - dates and places of birth supplied!! ::)
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"Oh, but I don't want to have to pay...."
Now Auntie Cati is always one for getting as much as possible for nothing, and this site is excellent for look-ups - RootsChatters are so generous! - but there are times when you really do have to shell out...
Cati (with a bee in her bonnet)
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one of my hated remarks is "I see you have his marriage, but he actually married a Mary, not a Jane" ... or variations on this
And equally hated is the silence that comes in response to that remark (made by me) ... said tree still has my grandfather married to completely the wrong woman!
Milly
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I have had a couple of conversations recently along the lines of:
Oh yes - my brother/sister did our family tree a couple of years ago. He/she got back to about 1100 - it took him/her about 3 months.
Rishile
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I have had a couple of conversations recently along the lines of:
Oh yes - my brother/sister did our family tree a couple of years ago. He/she got back to about 1100 - it took him/her about 3 months.
Rishile
Ummmm......
WOT TOOK 'EM SOOOOOOOOOO LONG ..... :-X :-X that's around TWELVE years per day .... :-X :-X :-X
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When someone says "Are you sure you have the right person" when you have spent a long time finding out the evidence and mention 1 minor, minor discrepancy with the age or birthplace.
"How far have you got back" is annoying.
More annoying is "Found any royalty yet?" No I dont research my family tree for glory.
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More annoying is "Found any royalty yet?" No I dont research my family tree for glory.
I just say Kings of England, Scotland, France... High Kings of Dalriada...
All true and I didn't really go looking for them, they're just there in the family tree ;D
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More annoying is "Found any royalty yet?" No I dont research my family tree for glory.
I just say Kings of England, Scotland, France... High Kings of Dalriada...
All true and I didn't really so looking for them, they're just there in the family tree ;D
Or I say "Well I may be related to William The Conquerer". Lol.
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"Assume", doesn't it just...
I don't mind if an accompanying note says, "not sure if the next generation is correct, needs to be verified." Possible and probable are ok only if reasons why and that further investigation and verification needs to be done.
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"How far back have you got?" and "Have you finished it yet?" are my two most hated questions! When I'm asked these, I know that the person isn't really interested in the topic so I stop talking because I know I'm boring them!
That and the glazed look in their eyes, it's a dead giveaway!
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I hate the word "lodger" or "inmate" on a census because I'm never sure if the person I've found is "mine" and as he or she is living with random people it doesn't give me parents/spouses/siblings names! :'(
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I have nowhere near finished my family tree.
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I have nowhere near finished my family tree.
Guilty as charged m'lud
I'm always saying that :-X :-X :-X
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"If I'd known someone was interested then I would not have thrown it out/ burnt it / torn it up......."
Arrrrrggghhh
Oho. My grandmother threw out a load of old pictures and things when she was elderly because she "didn't think anyone would be interested in pictures of dead people" before dad found out what she was doing and rescued what was left.
I dread to think how much got sent to the tips. :-\
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I wish they were still here to ask them. :'(
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; :)
Thanks everybody for cheering me up! I've been researching my family tree more or less in isolation for some years and (at the risk of sounding priggish!) I've taken some effort to back up details with documentation. I put some details online recently in the hope of finding information about some brick walls and I was horrified at some of the 'links' that came up...... I am so relieved that others have had similar experiences. Now back to the Ronald/Alexander/Ronald etc Fraser in Ross and Cromarty..... or possibly the Jones in Merioneth. Lots of scope for duplication and error! ;D
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"None found."
Especially when it's related to that all important birth/marriage/death record and means there are no clues whatsoever for parent's/spouse/place of birth/marriage or death....
In other words, another of my most hated phrases:
"you've/I've hit a brickwall!"
:'(
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"Living on own means" or "Independent" in census when you can't find out where the money came from;
1841 Census where born - not in County
From my great-aunt's memoirs, referring to a sticky problem I have been unable to resolve, ".....the family Bible dating back to Jacobean times …. had held the records of [great-great grandfather and great-great grandmother’s wedding and the births of their children; [she] in a rage tore them all out and burnt them...."
Good things, seeing comments in this thread of meeting relations, I have had a fantastic time with distant relations, including one where our common ancestor died as long ago as 1758. Only wish I could find more people on the lines I still haven't managed to explore..... And I've also blundered into all sorts of other people including one who was writing a biography of a distant cousin as her degree thesis in the University of Bogota!
Graham
As a footnote to the family Bible story, here is the character sketch of great-great-grandmother, from the same source: 'She was a wildly jealous woman and when her husband ordered his horse to be brought round at a given time, she’d order hers to be saddled and kept in the yard. He’d mount at the front door, she at the back and she’d ride after him keeping him in sight till his return home. She was so unpleasant a woman that my father never allowed my mother to meet her, “Apart, you are quite good friends, if you meet there will be endless trouble.”'
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two words I'm not too keen on coming across on any census right when I think I'm actually getting somewhere = 'visitor' and 'lodger' :'( :'( :'(