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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Gail-M on Saturday 28 May 11 08:42 BST (UK)
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Could anyone cast a fresh eye over the 1841 census to help me locate my Gt Gt Gt Grandmother please?
Alison (Elison/Alice) Mitchison (nee Clarke) was born 1792 in Kelso, married in Eglingham Northumberland and was widowed by 1841. She was resident in Lilburn near Wooler at the time of her marriage. Her youngest child who was 15 years old on the night of the census is staying with her married brother and his wife in Lucker.
Alison appears in 1851 and thereafter and lived to a good age. But I can't seem to find her on the 1841 census -
Any help most appreciated....
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Hi Gail,
Welcome to rootschat :D
I'm afraid I haven't been able to find her either but freely admit to being rubbish at the lateral thinking sometimes required with weird transcriptions :-\
Hopefully someone else will be along who is better at it.
Christine
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Hi Gail,
If she was already widowed by 1841, do you know this? Then she would prob be staying with one of her children. I would try and find all of them on the 1841 if you haven't already done so. A difficult one if you can't find her that way. You could also think of other ways that the writing could have been picked up like the M could be an H = Hitchison. Good luck, I think you have a lot of trawling to find her.
Barbara
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Thankyou Christine and Barbara,
Its a wet and windy afternoon....think I will knuckle down and do a bit of trawling. I think you may be right though Barbara, she may well be with one of her married children - if it has been mispelt, that is going to be by best staring point. Luckily I am pretty confident with their names, so here goes...
Many thanks
Gail
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Let us know if you find her!
Barbara
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Gail,have you tried the Scottish census,she might have gone back to Kelso?
Steve
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Gail,
What is the page reference for her on the 1851 census ?
what was page ref for her 15 yr old dtr on the 1841 census ?
Michael
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No, Steve I haven't tried the Scottish ones yet. Thanks for that idea.
Michael, the page ref for her 15 year old is H0 107/818/12 - the Lucker 1841 census.
On the 1851 she is in Ancroft Stead with her her married daughter, Jane Davidson and her husband Alexander Davidson. Sorry, it doesn't provide a page number on the copy I have.
all your help much appreciated....
Gail
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Gail,
The navigation ref for 15 yr old Alice on 1841 is
Piece 318, Book 12 Folio 6 Page 35 (6318/12 6-25)
The ref for widow Alice in Ancroft Stead on 1851 census
is Piece 2421, Folio 91, Page 35. (2421-91-35)
You may have wondered why I wanted to look at records
you had already found. Well experience has shown me that the past gives clues to the future and vice versa.
I did spot that on 1851 Alice and Davidsons were in Ancroft .
By 1851 Ancroft was part of/within the County of Northumberland.
But in 1841 Ancroft was part of the County of Durham, not Northumberland.
So if she was living there in 12841 she would have been enumerated for the 1841 census under County Durham, not Northumberland.
Her dtr and shepherd son-in-law are in fact enumerated under County Durham for 1841 ( ref 318/1 234-19)
But disappointingly, I still couldn't find her within Durham.
In 1851 she was Ancroft post mistress. Perhaps when Newcastle Library opens, a browse through Trade Directories might reveal if and where she was circa 1841 ?
Am I right about her movements
1792 born Kelso
18?? married Parish of Eglingham
C1814 dtr Jane born Lilburn ( within Eglingham Parish)
C1816 son John born ?
C1826 dtr Alice born ?
1841 dtr Jane in Ancroft
1851 widow Alice in Ancroft.
So after marrying within Eglingham she
made move/s northwards to Ancroft.
Michael
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Hi Michael,
Thank you so much for all your effort, it is really appreciated. You are absolutely spot on with the marriage and also with the children. I must say, I hadn't realised that Ancroft was in Durham, so many thanks for that.
I shall certainly have a look at the trade directories when I can. I had learned that she had a connection with the post office, and contacted them. They do have apparently quite good records, but the records are in London and I had hoped one day to go and look at them myself - but haven;t managed so far.
One last thing. Her last child was born after the death of her husband (by 7 years). I cannot find her baptism although the family bible says she was born in Wooler... Could this have any bearing in your experience do you think? She is, however, named 'Mitchison' in 1841....
Gail
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Sorry Michael, didn't make it clear. The child I am referring to is Alice Mitchison, the daughter living in Lucker in 1841.
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Gail,
Were the children of Kelso-born Alice baptised in the Anglican Church or in a church of a different denomination ?
Michael
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Hi Michael,
Yes they were. They were all baptised as Scottish Presbyterians. The Wooler baptisms were at Cheviot Street Presbyterian Church.
Spent time trawling the census's for 1841, but no luck. Maybe I should push that to one side now and may concentrate on the facts I do have, like the post office connection. What do you think?
Gail
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Gail,
In the next couple of days I will have a look in Northumberland Trade Directories for the " Queen's Messenger".
I don't understand your strategy of " trawling" censuses for folk. That's what we had to do in the " olden days" ( before we had databases allowing us to search by personal criteria such as name, birth year, birth place etc)
So her husband died c1819, 7 yrs before the birth of her dtr Alice ?
Michael
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Gail, you probably already have the following info, but for the benefit of Michael and others, to save covering the same ground for background info to aid the search :
Marriage at Eglingham :
1810. June 14. Richard Mitchinson and Alice Clark. Witnesses James Clark, Thomas Richardson, Ann Scott.
Baptisms at Wooler Presbyterian :
1811. Born 24 Jan, baptised 13 Feb. John Mickison, son of Richard and Ellison.
1813. Born 5 Jan, baptised 26 Jan. Jane Mitcheson, daughter of Richard and Elison.
Baptism at Clayport Presbyterian Alnwick.
1815. Archbold, 2nd son of Richard and Allison Mitchison. Born 5th, baptised 23rd January.
Burial at Embleton Holy Trinity.
1817. 23 Feb, Richard Mitchison, 28, of Stamford.
Baptism at Burgher Secession Chapel, North Sunderland.
1817. Margaret Richard, daughter of Richard Mitcheson, Husbandman in Stamford, and Alice his wife, was born 24th, baptised 27th Feb.
So Margaret was born the day after Richard was buried, hence her middle name.
Oldest son John and youngest daughter Alice (can't find her baptism) are together in Lucker in 1841 as stated, no Alice Snr.
Oldest daughter Jane is with husband Alexander Davidson in Ancroft in 1841, no Alice Snr. HO107/318/1/34/19
2nd son Archbold is with his wife Ann (Bolton) in Ellingham in 1841, no Alice Snr.
HO107/819/1/ /1
2nd daughter Margaret is with her husband William Patrick in Newcastle in 1841, no Alice Snr. HO107/848/2/7/7
So she's not with her children, unless there are any others.
Alan
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Yes, thank you so much Wolfie, thats all absolutely spot on. Thats her children in total - the family bible has proved to be pretty reliable.
Richard died at 28 and I notice that the buriel below mentions Alice Clark age 5, who died 14 days later, also from Stamford. So am wondering if there had been an outbreak of something, and also suspect that she may be related to Alice Snr (maybe a neice) as other young Clarks from Scotland have popped up in the censuses staying with the family.
Must say, if Alice has proved elusive to you experienced guys, she's not about to be found any time soon. Maybe that period of her extrodiary life will remain unknown (for now at least)
Can I thank everyone that has contributed, its is very much appreciated and your experienced suggestions have been very helpful
Kind regards,
Gail
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Gail,
I have had a couple of sessions going through trade directories of Northumberland in Newcastle library- without spotting Alice as a post mistress.
I looked through a range of directories from 1830s to 1855, without success.
I looked mainly in Ancroft.
Michael
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Very many thanks Michael. I think she is described as a Queen's Messager - and Postal Heritage have confirmed this would have been an employee at the Post Office so I think I will employ their research service to see what turns up rather than wait for an opportunity to visit them in London.
Thanks for all your advice
Gail
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Gail,
I took " Queen's Messenger" to be an old term for Post Master/Mistress.
One thing about those early Trade Directories was that they always included details on postal services, include incoming and outgoing mail times and who was in charge. The smaller villages/hamlets might not include a post master, but directories listed where was nearest post town/village.
Michael
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Hi...just reading this info. Is it Alice Clarke you are trying to find?
I am a direct descendant of William Patrick and Margaret Richard Mitchison so I think I can help you.
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Oops...try again !!!
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Hi Gail
I am the g-g-g grandson of William Patrick and Margaret Richard Mitchison and I think I can help you.
She died in Chester-Le-Street, County Durham in 1902.
I have done a fair amount of research into the Patrick and Mitchison family...which one do you descend from?
My mother was Margaret Patrick as was her mother.
Margaret Richard and William came to Newcastle around 1840.
I can fill you in with detail of children and the history if you get in touch
Best wishes...Doug
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Hi Doug,
Checked again, and I made a typo mistake in my earlier post.
Richard and Alice son Archbold was baptized at Burgher Secesssion Chapel, North Sunderland, daughter Margaret Richard was baptized at Clayport Presbyterian, Alnwick. Not the other way round.
Margaret Richard was definitely baptized 27 Feb 1817. pm me your email adress and I'll send you a copy of the original record. The page header is 1816, but the records change to 1817 half way down the page.
FreeReg has Richard Mitchison burial 23 Feb 1817, Embleton. Richard Mitchison of Stamford, age 28. Usually very reliable, but I haven't seen a copy of the original record.
Cheers,
Alan.
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Hi Alan
I'm actually going to Woodhorn this morning so I will check Richards death again, I would love a copy of Margarets baptism. Will send email address when I get back and hopefully the clarification of Richards death.
I had made the same assumption that she was baptised 3 days after his burial.
Have been to find his grave in Embleton but it wasn't there, mind you a lot of stones are illegible or missing !!!
Doug
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Hi Doug and Alan,
Thanks very much for your responses. I am descended from John Mitchison, their eldest son and Margaret Richard's elder brother. hello cousins!
I only found Richard's buriel by accident, and it does look as though Margaret had the name Richard added by way of rememberance. However, Alice did have another child in 1825. I sent fo this child's eventual marriage certificate and she actually names Richard Mitchison as her father - although she must obviously have been illigitimate as he had died sometime before her birth.
Alice does interest me though. She was widowed with four small children yet somehow managed to survive and land a position working for the post office. Two of her sons were schoolmasters. This was one fo the reasons why I was really interested to see what she was doing in that important period in 1841. I wonder where she was?
Gail
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Hi Gail
I have actually been in the schoolhouse John Mitchison taught in in 1841 in Lucker, Northumberland, I have a photo if you send me your email I will send it to you.
Alice lived with my great great grandfather William and her daughter Margaret Richard in 1861 in Newcastle, she died in Newcastle in 1869.
John Mitchison was married to Eleanor Miller who died in 1842 age 21, she is buried in Lucker, I have a photo of her grave. They had a child, Eleanor Purdy Mitchison who lived with her parents. I think Eleanor may have died during childbirth but I have not seen the record.
John then married again to Jane Taylor.
Please get in touch by mail if you would like these photo's or any other info I have.
Best wishes...Doug
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Hi Doug,
Will e-mail you - would love a copy of the school, may thanks!
Eleanor survived a few months after the birth of Eleanor Purdy - she died of 'brain fever' aged 21 which I understand is Meningitis. I am descended from his second wife Jane Taylor.
Thanks for your help
Gail