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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: kennyb on Friday 27 May 11 11:55 BST (UK)
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I have the birth cert for William George Besley( hope it should be Beasley) in 1868,father Thomas, mother Amanda, address 46 Huntingdon st Hoxton.I have tried 71 and 81 census's but family seems to have disappeared. Could someone please check the address for me in the 71 census to see who lives there. Thanks a lot.
Ken.
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Theres a Henry Horne 48 Sarah 28 wife.2 children a Harris,Dixon and Jullion.
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Its a start ! (Apologies if you already have this detail)
Marriages Dec 1867
BARTON Elizabeth Bethnal Green 1c 613
BEASLEY Thomas Bethnal Green 1c 613
FERNE Edward Bethnal Green 1c 613
Pinchion Amanda Bethnal Green 1c 613
Married 25 Nov, 1867 at St James the Great, Bethnal Green.
Thomas (bachelor) of full age, marked X: Father Edward - a Brickmaker
Amanda (Spinster) 18, marked X:Father George - a Labourer
both 'of Bethnal Green'
Witnesses - William Webb & Sarah Ann Pinchion (both 'X'ed' signature)
This looks like her Birth Index entry - no wonder she couldnt be found in Middx!
Margaret Amanda Pinchion
Registration - 4Q of 1849
Registration district of Guildford (Surrey)
Volume 4
Page 177
A likely match in 1861 was born Surrey, Shere & has a Father John. G - the family are in Writtle Essex - altho there is a sibling born in Hoxton, so maybe a link.
RG9/Piece: 1080 Folio: 22 Page: 13
Looking back at the 1851 - HO107/Piece: 1502 Folio: 286 Page: 25 - in Islington, the fathers middle name was George .... and someone else has researched the name:-
Margaret Emmerton rather than Margt Pinchion
Second Married name
Submitted by richardbazeley on 28/10/2007
Margaret Beasley rather than Margt Pinchion
First Married name
Submitted by richardbazeley on 28/10/2007
cant find an Emmerton marriage in FreeBMD :(
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Got 'em :)
1881 census of South Hackney - RG11/Piece: 312 Folio: 7 Page: 5 @ 9, Ada Street
Thomas Emmerton 34 Head of Household born Clerkenwell: a Safe Maker
Margaret Emmerton 32 Wife born Surrey, ?Southwark?: a Fur Sewer
William Bearsley (sic) 12 stepson born Hoxton
Amanda Emmerton 7 dau ditto
Mary A. Emmerton 5 dau Hackney
Thomas Emmerton 2 son Hackney
but still cant find them in 1871 :(
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i've had a couple of my ancesters disappearing in that area for the 1871/1881 census... 1881 it was mis-spelt so was lucky to pick that one up....
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Thanks Isebelruss,they must have moved on.
Thanks Mort29,you are a star!I haven't got any of the info you've given me. My starting point was William George's marriage in 1895,he was my Grandfather and I have his origanal marriage cert. Without knowing it, I had gone back on the wrong line of Beasley's but you have put me back on track. On his marriage cert it shows his father as Thomas which is correct, His occupation is down as Iron safe maker,which was William's stepfathers occupation and I imagine William said that as he wouldn't have known his real father's occ, I have found Amanda Emmerton in the 1901 census widowed with three more of her children, I have William in the 1901 but couldn't find him in the 1891.She seemed to have prefered Amanda to Margaret,first marriage she was Amanda,second Marriage she was Margaret, then when widowed went back to Amanda again.
Funny lot our ancestors,weren't they?
You have given me Thomas's father now (Edward) so hopefully I will find him in the 51 census to get me back even further. Thanks once again Mort,really helped me out.
Ken.
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Pleasure Ken - you might want to try & get in touch with the Ancestry ID who made those notes (richardbazeley in 2007) ?
She seemed to have prefered Amanda to Margaret,first marriage she was Amanda,second Marriage she was Margaret, then when widowed went back to Amanda again.
did you find her second marriage to Mr Emmerton then?
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Hi Mort.
No,couldn't find the marriage at all,I went by the 81 census ( Margaret) and 1901 Amanda. perhaps they weren't married!
Ken.
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William is with the Emmertons in 1891 - RG12/Piece: 204 Folio 77 Page 63, using Emmerton rather than Beasley.
The Ancestry site has transcribed them as Emmerson, but the same ID (RichardBazeley) corrected it in 2009.
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Well done again Mort.
I'm looking on Find My Past but found nothing,ancestry appears to have better info. Do you think you could look up the 1851 for Edward Beasley for me? I think he would be a youngster so still with his family.I've had no luck on FindMyPast.
Ken.
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Was going to do that earlier, but got waylaid.
Will have a look now.
(Can you not find them in FindMyPast using the RG12 reference?)
Update: The problem is that not finding him & seeing his actual age and PoB in the 1871 census, there is only his purported Father's name to try and ID him in 1861/51 or even 1841.
Theres no links like that countrywide :(
I did wonder about a Thomas H Beasley - adopted son of an Eliza Glazier (Not Married) in MEOT. He was born c1849 in Stepney ...
RG9/Piece: 296 Folio: 133 Page: 29 - Mile End Old Town
2nd update: I think I found the Eliza in 1851 - there is a child in the family aged 2, but heavily scored over, looks like Thomas H B????? ???Child born Ratcliffe.
Have a look - HO107/Piece: 1552 Folio: 851 Page: 18 - Stepney, MEOT Upper
(cant post an image in this thread >:(
3rd update: Damnit, I think that Thomas has reverted to his mothers name of Glazier and by 1871 is married to an Eliza c1841 born Egham, Surrey - they have a 9 mon old Thomas.
RG10/Piece: 563 Folio: 46 Page: 30 - MEOT Eastern
Otherwise, try a new thread specifically asking about Thomas and Edward.
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Had a look at them, but can't see anything that makes me excited! I'll search around a bit more then perhaps put an 1851 thread on to see if anyone else can find him. Still, you've got me of to a good start Mort,thanks again.
Ken.
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Hello Ken
You have most of this but you will find something of interest if the Pinchion family as seen below in the 1861/1871 census is the correct one
Sarah Ann Pinchion (witness of 1867 marriage)....who is she?
1881 census
9 Ada Street, South Hackney, Hackney, Middx
Thomas Emmerton....head..34...safe maker.....Clerkenwell
Margaret........".........wife....32...fur sewer........Southwark, Surrey
William Bearsley....stepson.12..........................Hoxton, Middx
Amanda Emmerton..daur......7.............................."
Mary A. Emmerton...daur......5...........................Hackney
Thomas Emmerton....son......2...........................Hackney
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1871
Europia Place, City Road, Holborn, Middx
Sarah Skinner.............head...58 (wid)...charing...................Shoreditch, Middx
Thomas Emmerton.......son....29 (unm)..iron safe maker..............."............"
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1861 census
8, Johns Place, St Luke, Finsbury, City Road, London, Middlesex
David Skinner....Head.....45.....Tailor.....................Holborn, Middlesex
Sarah......"........Wife......48....................................Shoreditch, Middlesex
Thomas Emmerton..Son In Law 19.. Porter At Cabinet Maker.. Clerkenwell, Middlesex
William Emmerton..Son In Law 17..Book Binder.....Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Frederic........"......Son In Law.....16...Stationer.......Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Ann............."...Daughter In Law 14 Mourning Flower Maker..Highgate, Middlesex
Susan............Daughter In Law ..13 Mourning Flower Maker..Highgate, Middlesex
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Minni appears to be Margaret in the 1871 census, if correct it appears that William George "Besley" is not with mum even though he is only two years old! the 1881 clearly states that "Margaret" was born Southwark, Surrey.....a big difference from Dorking, Surrey....right County but chalk & cheese
1871 census
Albert Place, St Leonard Shoreditch, London, Middlesex
George Pinchion....Head.....50............................Chelmsford, Essex
Mary.........."...........Wife......49............................Dorking, Surrey
Thomas....."............Son......23.............................Chelmsford, Essex
Susan......."...........Daur......20.............................Shoreditch, Middlesex
Minni..........".........Daur.......21.............................Dorking, Surrey
Caroline....."........ Daur.......16.............................Shoreditch, Middlesex
Charles......"..........Son........14.............................Chelmsford, Essex
George......"..........Son........10.............................Chelmsford, Essex
Alice...........".........Daur.........6.............................Chelmsford, Essex
+ the Whitmore family
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Marriages Dec 1867
BARTON Elizabeth Bethnal Green 1c 613
BEASLEY Thomas Bethnal Green 1c 613
FERNE Edward Bethnal Green 1c 613
Pinchion Amanda Bethnal Green 1c 613
Married 25 Nov, 1867 at St James the Great, Bethnal Green.
Thomas (bachelor) of full age, marked X: Father Edward - a Brickmaker
Amanda (Spinster) 18, marked X:Father George - a Labourer
both 'of Bethnal Green'
Witnesses - William Webb & Sarah Ann Pinchion (both 'X'ed' signature)
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1861 census
Highwood, Writtle, Chelmsford, Essex
John G Pinchion....Head...40...Agricultural Labourer...Writtle, Essex
Mary A........."........Wife....39.......................................Dorking, Surrey
John............".........Son.....16......................................Whittle, Essex
Thomas.......".........Son.....14......................................Dorking, Surrey
Margaret.....".........Daur....11......................................Shore, Surrey
Caroline......".........Daur......6......................................Holford, Middlesex
Charles.......".........Son........4.....................................Writtle, Essex
George........".........Son.......2......................................Writtle, Essex
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1851 census
1a, Feston Place, Islington, Finsbury, Middlesex
John Geo Pinchion...Head...30...Brickmaker........Writtle, Essex
Mary A............"........Wife....29............................Dorking, Surrey
John..............."........Son........6......Scholar..........Writtle, Essex
Thomas.........".........Son........4......Scholar...........Writtle, Essex
Margaret........."......Daur........1...........................Shire, Surrey
George Tremley...Visitor......23..Lab Iron Foundry...Dorking, Surrey
Thomas Apelby....Visitor...31...Brickmaker... Arrington, Warwickshire
William Ashwell....Visitor...15...Brickmaker... Shoreditch, Middlesex
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1843
Mar qtr Chelmsford R.D, Essex
John George Pinchion married Mary Ann Renment
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Bryant
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Following on.....for my info why I meander and look at possibilities
Besley in the census below...right name, right area of birth to know the Pinchion family and the right trade in so much as blacksmiths could well make safe's and Besley's with that spelling are few and far between....but doubtful connection
1861 census
High Street, Cobham, Surrey
Thomas Besley......Head...42......Ironmonger & Smith...Guildford, Surrey
Mary A........".........Wife.....44........................................St Elvis, Sussex
William........".........Son.....24....Tin Plate Worker..........Woking, Surrey
Ann E..........".........Daur....14.........................................Cobham, Surrey
John............".........Son.......4...........Scholar..................Cobham, Surrey
Henry..........".........Son.......9...........Scholar..................Cobham, Surrey
Mary A........"..........Daur......6..........Scholar..................Cobham, Surrey
George......."...........Son.......3.......................................Guildford, Surrey
Elizabeth A.."........Visitor...39 (unm).............................Guildford, Surrey
Emily Reading.......Visitor......5......................................Westminster, Middlesex
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Its a start ! (Apologies if you already have this detail)
Marriages Dec 1867
BARTON Elizabeth Bethnal Green 1c 613
BEASLEY Thomas Bethnal Green 1c 613
FERNE Edward Bethnal Green 1c 613
Pinchion Amanda Bethnal Green 1c 613
Married 25 Nov, 1867 at St James the Great, Bethnal Green.
Thomas (bachelor) of full age, marked X: Father Edward - a Brickmaker
Amanda (Spinster) 18, marked X:Father George - a Labourer
both 'of Bethnal Green'
Witnesses - William Webb & Sarah Ann Pinchion (both 'X'ed' signature)
This looks like her Birth Index entry - no wonder she couldnt be found in Middx!
Margaret Amanda Pinchion
Registration - 4Q of 1849
Registration district of Guildford (Surrey)
Volume 4
Page 177
A likely match in 1861 was born Surrey, Shere & has a Father John. G - the family are in Writtle Essex - altho there is a sibling born in Hoxton, so maybe a link.
RG9/Piece: 1080 Folio: 22 Page: 13
Looking back at the 1851 - HO107/Piece: 1502 Folio: 286 Page: 25 - in Islington, the fathers middle name was George .... and someone else has researched the name:-
Margaret Emmerton rather than Margt Pinchion
Second Married name
Submitted by richardbazeley on 28/10/2007
Margaret Beasley rather than Margt Pinchion
First Married name
Submitted by richardbazeley on 28/10/2007
cant find an Emmerton marriage in FreeBMD :(
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Had a look at them, but can't see anything that makes me excited!
I was less excited too, after seeing that he changed (back) to Glazier for the 1871 census, and as presumably couldnt be in 2 places at once, was thus eliminated ... but you never know!
As said, not being able to see the man who married Amanda on the 1871 census hampers the search, coupled with no obvious links to a Father Edward kinda dead-ends it for now (btw, its very common to fabricate a Father's name on your Marriage papers, esp if you were illegitimate)
Bryant - you've totally lost me there :D
Apart from copying and pasting marriage details, and actually transcribing the Census entries I had referenced for the Pinchions - you then end up with an 1861 census entry for a Besley family in Chobham. ???
Witness Sarah Ann Pinchion could be a sibling's wife, or an Aunt or similar, only detailed research will reveal this.
The 1871 showing an unmarried Minnie is interesting - right age, right Birth area, albeit not Shere as in other census ... one can conjecture on this, and the missing child true - but until the child and or husband materialise, who knows?
Incidentally, re questioning the 'chalk & cheese' PoBs stated - have a look at Amanda/Margarets declared PoBs in later census!
What does it all mean we wonder? :P
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Minni in the 1871 census appears to be Margaret in the 1861 census, if correct it appears that William George "Besley" is not with mum even though he is only two years old! the 1881 clearly states that "Margaret" was born Southwark, Surrey.....a big difference from Dorking, Surrey....right County but chalk & cheese
If the above is true? and the Pinchion family above is the correct one....
Margaret Amanda Pinchion has given the child William George "Besley" away as an infant and Thomas & Margaret Emmerton as seen in the 1881 census might be the step parents?
So if the birth cert is available for William...what was the mother's maiden name? or is that info within the post and i'm missing it?
Bryant
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Margaret Amanda Pinchion has given the child William George "Besley" away as an infant and Thomas & Margaret Emmerton as seen in the 1881 census might be the step parents?
That's certainly a possible scenario - but then again, would the 1881 relationship not be 'adopted son', rather than stepson? (Relationship to the head ... ) stepson implies that Margaret/Amanda is the mother.
But, whatever the Census 'states' (rather like her PoB of Southwark, and the other ones she uses later) it's only what was written on the Schedule, and as seen often, things can be completely different.
Rather than conjecture further in the absence of Mr B and William being found on the 1871 census, and no Marriage for Thomas Emmerton - lets see what the OP says about the Mother's Maiden name from the Birth Certificate he has ...
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I thought for some reason I saw reference to this marriage but now can't find it within the post....my imagination or has someone removed what they had written? anyway....
Freebmd.......Thomas Frederick Emmerton married Margaret Ann Pink in the Dec qtr of 1865 Lambeth R.D, Surrey
Not obvious (easy to find) when you look for them leading upto marriage
Bryant
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Update
Thomas Frederick Emmeston born June qtr 1845 Clerkenwell R.D
but the question is....who is Margaret A Pink?
Bryant
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That 1865 Marriage is in the LMA transcribed records.
Thomas Frederick Emmerton of Lucretia Street, full age, a Bachelor was by trade a Cooper - Father John Emmerton, a Silversmith.
Margaret Ann Pink of James St. ( Minor) - father was Edward, a Hatter.
Working back from your posting of John and Mother Sarah to 1851 - HO107/Piece: 1702 Folio: 126 Page: 2 - his Father was Thomas, an Engineer.
There's also the fact that someone else on Ancestry researched this with similar conclusions (ie Margaret / Amnda was née Pinchion, then Beasley, then Emmerton)
I'd like to hear from the OP about the MMName on the Birth Certificate ......
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Here's Margaret Pink in 1851, with Edward, her father - a Hatter.
HO107/Piece: 1509 Folio: 411 Page: 57 @ Gt White Lion St
all born St Giles
Edward Pink 28 Head - Hatter
Sarah Pink 27 Wife
Edward Pink 11 son
James Pink 8 son
Mary Ann Pink 8 dau
Margaret Pink 5 dau
So a PoB of Southwark is even more 'Chalk & Cheese' to St Giles ... :P
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MMN on birth cert
So would I....on air not long ago but hasn't put us out of our misery ;D
St Giles to Southwark is a couple of miles away....Dorking to Southwark isn't :-*
Bryant
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Hi folks, sorry to be a bit late in replying,been out and about today.
The first thing is Amanda's maiden name,yes, its Pincheon,so the Emmerton census of stepson would be correct. When William married in 1895 his fathers occupation was entered as Iron Safe maker, but that was probably his stepfathers occ. His birth father was Thomas Charles Beasley deceased, his was the name entered on the cert. I have found a Thomas Beasley who died in 1872 Pancras and if nothing else come to light I will send for the cert, though I find there isn't much useful info on death certs.
The question is "where were the family in 1871" William wasn't given away as he was with his mother in the 81 census.He also followed her trade as a Furrier.
if I had any hair I'd be pulling it out. I do appreciate all the help I'm receiving,I know how time consuming it can be. Hope this info was useful.
Ken.
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Back again!
Married 25 Nov, 1867 at St James the Great, Bethnal Green.
Thomas (bachelor) of full age, marked X:
ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
] Father Edward - a Brickmaker[/color]Amanda (Spinster) 18, marked X:Father George - a Labourer
both 'of Bethnal Green'
Witnesses - William Webb & Sarah Ann Pinchion (both 'X'ed' signature)
Think I've found Thomas and father Edward in the 61 census.
Beesley Edward 50 brickmaker Langly Berkshire
" Sarah 44 Charwoman Clerkenwell Middx
" Richard 16 Brickmakers boy Newington Surry.
" Thomas 15 " " Islington Middx
" William 10 Scholar "
What do you think?
Ken
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Hello Ken
Your 1861 looks good to me but it would be nice to find them elsewhere.
Richard Beesley as seen in your 1861 census appears to have been born RICHARD BEASELEY in the Dec qtr of 1846 St Saviour R.D (includes Newington)
WILLIAM BEAZLEY in the Jun qtr of 1851 Islington or is he....WILLIAM BEESLEY in the Sep qtr of 1851 St Lukes R.D?
Is this the witness to the marriage of "Amanda" .......interesting trades that the boys have!
Just a coincidence or does it mean something?
1871 census
15 Prospect Place, Bethnal Green, London, Middlesex
Geo Wm Pinchin....Head...60....wire weaver.................Middlesex
Sarah..........".........Wife....58.....wire weaver................Middlesex
Edwin.........."..........Son....24.....iron safe maker...........Middlesex
Henry...........".........Son....20.....iron safe maker...........Middlesex
Priscillia Harewood..Niece 24......seamster...................Middlesex
Rebecca Simmonds..Niece 19.......................................Bethnal Green, Middlesex
Alfred Richardson..Boarder 26.....................................Bethnal Green, Middlesex
Emily Pope.............Visitor...24.....................................Exeter, Devon
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1851 census
16, Prospect Place, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets, Middlesex
George William Pinchin...Head...42....Wire Weaver...Bethnal Green, Middlesex
Sarah.................."..........Wife.....39...........................Bethnal Green, Middlesex
George Thos......."..........Son.......13..Errand Boy......Bethnal Green, Middlesex
Thomas H............"..........Son........8...Scholar............Bethnal Green, Middlesex
Sarah R..............".........daur........6.....Scholar...........Bethnal Green, Middlesex
Edwin M............."..........Son........4......Scholar...........Bethnal Green, Middlesex
Henry Wm.........."..........Son........1 month................Bethnal Green, Middlesex
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Sarah Sophia Emmerton married David Skinner in the Sep qtr of 1857 Clerkenwell R.D
The term son in law/daur in law being used instead of stepson/stepdaur in the 1861 census below
1861 census
8, Johns Place, St Luke, Finsbury, City Road, London, Middlesex
David Skinner....Head.....45.....Tailor.....................Holborn, Middlesex
Sarah......"........Wife......48....................................Shoreditch, Middlesex
Thomas Emmerton..Son In Law 19.. Porter At Cabinet Maker.. Clerkenwell, Middlesex
William Emmerton..Son In Law 17..Book Binder.....Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Frederic........"......Son In Law.....16...Stationer.......Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Ann............."...Daughter In Law 14 Mourning Flower Maker..Highgate, Middlesex
Susan............Daughter In Law ..13 Mourning Flower Maker..Highgate, Middlesex
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Bryant
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The first thing is Amanda's maiden name,yes, its Pincheon,so the Emmerton census of stepson would be correct.
Thanks for confirming that - resolves the debate at last :P
St Giles to Southwark is a couple of miles away....Dorking to Southwark isn't Kiss
Distance has no bearing does it? Its the difference in locale etc - North & South London are usually considered 'C & C' ...
The expression is mooted to originate in the Salisbury / Old Sarum area, where the communities focussed on Dairy produce in the lowland river valleys, and Sheep / Wool products up on the chalky downs ..... :P
Anyway, good luck in locating the previous generation.
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Thanks for that Bryant, the 61 T Emmerton does look the part. The Pinchins in the 51/71 look good to,it appears to tie all the family's together date wise. I'll continue tracing the Beasley line back now,as it seems I'm on the right track.
Cheers
Ken.
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Hello Ken
Iv'e no wish to be boring
I need convincing with hard facts on this lady named Margaret Amanda Pinchion....i'm not disputing that she is the mother of William George "Besley" and that Thomas "Besley" is the father........
If i'm reading right
The census of 1881 states Southwark as her place of birth
The census of 1891 states Bow as her place of birth
The census of 1901 states Dalston as her place of birth
Yet Margaret Amanda Pinchion was born Dorking, Surrey which I don't dispute as I see no other candidate.
The 1861 census with Margaret aged 11 and the 1871 census showing a lady named Minni aged 21 (appears to be the same person although she could be a family member taken in?) gives me further reason to cast doubt....
1881 census
9 Ada Street, South Hackney, Hackney, Middx
Thomas Emmerton....head..34...safe maker.....Clerkenwell
Margaret........".........wife....32...fur sewer........Southwark, Surrey
William Bearsley....stepson.12..........................Hoxton, Middx
Amanda Emmerton..daur......7.............................."
Mary A. Emmerton...daur......5...........................Hackney
Thomas Emmerton....son......2...........................Hackney
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To put my doubt to bed
Thomas George Emmerton was born Sep qtr 1878 Hackney and appears to be Thomas Emmerton aged 2 in the 1881 census above, hopefully there is someone who can see the detail of that birth to ensure that the mother's maiden name is this lady born Dorking with birth places such as Southwark, Bow & Dalston....then I can move on :)
Regards
Bryant
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From the LMA;
Born May 21 1878, bap. March 19, 1880 at St. Barnabas Homerton. Thomas George, son of Thomas and Margaret of 26 Crozier Terrace. Father a labourer.
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Hi Bryant.
I don't know why she has all these different P o B but I do believe she is the right one. She married T Besley in 1867 and had William George in 1868. It looks like Thomas Besly( Beasley/Beazley) died in 1872 age 26 ( I've sent for the death cert), and by 1881 she was married? ( cannot find details ) to Thomas Emmerton. In 1901 she is now a widow and she is living with three of her children that are on the 1891 census, in the same house as William George Beasley ( 32 Dove Row Shoreditch ) William later moved to no 49 as his family grew. I would like to point out that although she kept altering her PoB she always showed the same occ ( Fur Sewer )
She also played about with her name,she was Amanda in 1868, Margaret in 81/91,then Amanda in 1901 when she was back on her own ( widowed ) you can see it is her, as she has the three youngest children from the 1891 census with her. Hope this clarifies it a bit.
Ken.
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Ken, why not put it to bed once and for all by contacting the Ancestry member who made those corrections / links to Amanda - Richardbazeley ......
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Hello Mort, how would I go about contacting him,I'm with FindMyPast.Does Ancestry have a pay as you go section?
Ken
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As an Ancestry member, I could send him a PM, with a link to this thread if you like?
Or you could try the Free Trial (make sure you cancel before the 14 days are up tho)
http://landing.ancestry.co.uk/popularmedia/hs1.aspx?landingpage=39719&o_iid=39719&o_lid=39719
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PM'ed him anyway :D
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Thanks Mort, I will keep you informed as to what happens.
Ken
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Hopefully he will post on this thread - if he gets the message via Ancestry - hasnt been logged in for 6 months ...
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Hello all
What a little debate we have going here I love it. What is ancestry going on about I haven't logged in for 6 months? I log in regularly ha ha.
Firstly although my surname is Bazeley & we are looking at Beasleys you'll be suprised to learn that they are not my ancestors, and by a pure coincidence they are ancestors of my wife so the research is hers.
Secondly we often submit corrections to ancestry when we find them to try and help others but we've never really known if our corrections have been used so it's great to learn that they have.
Margaret Amanda Pinchion, sorry I mean Minnie, sorry I mean Amanda etc. etc. has been a pain to research. It seems that you have already figured out she changed her name, place of birth & age to suit her needs, whatever they may have been. The one thing that doesn't change is her occupation as a fur sewer. So below is everything I know.
1. I have her birth certificate (official name) Margaret Amanda Pinchion born 24th September 1849 registration district of Guildford Surrey. Her father is John George Pinchion, her mother is Mary Ann Pinchion nee Renment.
2. 1851 Census
HO107/1502/286 p 25
Margt Pinchion 1 yr old with father John Geo & mother Mary A
3. 1861 Census
RG9/1080/ 22 p 13
Marget Pinchion 11 yrs old father John G, mother Mary A
3. 1867 Marriage to Thomas Beasley
I have the marriage certificate & the marriage banns is available on ancestry too.
Married 25th November 1867 Thomas Beasley marries Amanda Pinchion (18)
Thomas' father is Edward Beasley & her dad is George Pinchion (an indication the family use middle names)
4. 1868 - William Beasley is born
5. 1871 Census
Like all of you I am yet to find this document
6. I never did have a death for Thomas Beasley but I see someone has found one in 1872 which would make sense becase of the next census
7. 1881 Census
RG11/312/7 p 5
She is Margaret Emmerton (32) now "married" to Thomas Emmerton. I place this in inverted commas because I have never found this marriage, has anyone else?
I hear from attending WDYTYA that is wasn't uncommon to just delcare yourself married if 1. you couldn't afford divorce, or to marry etc. you just assumed the name and no one asked questions? Also they have William Beasley down as "stepson" to Thomas Emmerton, well we all know he is Thomas Beasley's lad so this helps verify Margaret is now an Emmerton.
8. 1891 Census
RG12/204/ 77 p63
Margaret Emmerton (44) married to Thomas Emmerton (49) noteably William Beasley is listed as William Emmerton but is the right age. Possibly to legitimise a marriage that never happened?
9. 1901 Census
RG13/ 280/22 p 35
Amanda Emmerton (widow) 32!!!?? Yeah right . Either she was telling real porkies or the enumerator was a plonker. William Beasley is listed at the same address but as a "head" of his own family now married to a Caroline & they have a girl.
10. 1908 she dies Margaret Amanda Emmerton now 60 yes old, 32 - 60 in 7 years not bad.
I can completely sympathise with your scepticism to accept some of these records as being correct, or being her throughout because I went through the same process but a few years down the line I have concluded that all of these records are correct.
Just so you have a rough idea where I fit in, I descend from Margaret Amanda's daughter Edith Ann Emmerton.
I hope all that is helpful
Richard & Domonique Bazeley
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Hi Baze,that is brilliant. You can see the debate that has been going on,and you have confirmed our conclusions. I also think that the fact that we came up with the same answers as you adds further proof.
I am following the Beasley line ( or attempting to) as William and Caroline 1901 were my Grandparents, making Amanda my Great Grandmother. I think her age in 1901 was 52 probably a mistake by the Plonker,sorry,meant enumerator :) I found the death of a Thomas Beasley in 1872 and have just sent of for the cert,hope its the right Thomas. why Amanda changed her name and place of birth so often we will never know.
I appreciate you coming on to Rootschat to pass on all that information,I feel I can now draw a line under the Amanda/Margaret/Beasley/Emmerton saga.
Thanks once again to your goodself,Mort29,and Bryant for all the help you have given me.
Ken.
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Richard - really appreciated that you took the trouble to do this.
Like you, I make corrections on Ancestry and its good to know they get used - unlike FMPs stodgy attitude.
Sadly the 1871 census is the missing link - and indeed the anomaly given the prescence of a Minnie with the Pincihon family....
Kind Regards, Mort, aka GL