RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: KeithS on Wednesday 27 April 05 13:28 BST (UK)
-
My late uncle, Ernest George Sproston NOKES was born in Gloucester in 1894. It was always reputed that he was, along with others born at that time (possibly the same day), made a Freeman of the City to celebrate presumably some event. Can anyone enlighten me as to whether such ceremonial happened and what event could be commemorated. Incidentally, my uncles family were relatively transient, having 13 children, all but two born in widely different locations
-
:D
I can't find much that happend in 1894. Now if it were 1895 then that was the year the Library building in Brunswick Rd was started.
1896 The new water supply from Newent via a new pumping station at Oxenhall and laying a main to Gloucester.
I'll keep looking.
;)
-
Did you know that a Noke is a third of a Virgate??
How did I get by without that information until now?
I'm looking too!
Arranroots ;)
-
Thanks to both respondents, especially about the third of a virgate. Now I'll be up all night wondering what a virgate is
Keith
-
Hee hee!
I think I would be inclined to give the council a bell (or an e-mail)
http://www.gloucester.gov.uk/libraries/templates/page.asp
I'm sure somebody there must keep a record of such things.
Or maybe the gloucester Record Office would be a better starting point.
http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=1348
BTW
Latin, virgata.
The virgate was a unit in the assessment system in most of the counties of Wessex and western Mercia, one quarter of a hide or 30 fiscal acres. J.H. Round long ago provided illustrations of the relationship of hides, virgates and acres, mainly from circuit 3 and especially from Cambridgeshire, where the Cambridge Inquisition provides totals for the hidage of each vill as well as each manor, giving greater confidence in the arithmetic involved. [ Domesdaybook.net ]
Fancy not knowing that :-X ;D ;D
-
Thanks Arranroots - now I can rest easy in my bed!
I have had correspondence with the library service in the city but they could not help. Perhaps they were busy anyway. I'll follow your suggestion of the CRO though.
regards
-
From memory you could become a freeman in one of at least three different ways: 1. be the son of a freeman
2. complete your apprenticeship
3. pay enough money
I think that whichever way you probably needed to have someone sponsor or otherwise nominate you (ie your father for No. 1, or the person you were apprenticed to for No. 2)
Bristol has a whole heap of indexes of freemen and it gives dates etc. I'm not sure now where I came across them, but think it might have been at the Bristol records office.
As for "freeman of Gloucester" I think the status freeman applied to freedom of a city rather than a county.
-
Thanks for that Corinne - Yes those would be the usual reasons + I think modern day Freedoms are often given for some meritorious or lengthy service to the community. You're right also in that it is 'of the city or borough' rather than the county. Usually signified by a scroll and a massive symbolic key to the 'gates'.
In the case of my uncle however it was allegedly awarded when he was born (along with other infants) because of some special event at the time (1894). Certainly his parents would be in virtual poverty. In fact they were transient in Gloucester, having 13 children in 12 different counties!
We've made many enquiries over the years. His mother (my gmr) was definite about the award but had no recollection of the reason (if she ever knew it). There are lists of Freemen and there was a Freeman's association. The lists only go up to, I think, 1838 and the association is defunct. We'll keep trying. Thanks!
-
Just a thought Edward V111 (later Duke of Windsor ) was born on the 23rd June 1894.Tralee
-
Forgot to say that the freemen of Gloucester are still going strong.The records are kept in the Mayors Office at Gloucester Docks Tralee
-
Forgot to say that the freemen of Gloucester are still going strong.The records are kept in the Mayors Office at Gloucester Docks Tralee
Thanks Tralee thats good to know that !! :D
-
Hi Graceland Its a good twelve years since i looked at these records.I rang and made an appointment before i went and the people there were great.I remember that the records were up to date and then i went to the Glos collection at the library where they have a book on earlier freemens records.Tralee
-
Thanks to both Tralee and Graceland for your information. I'm particularly interested in the Edward the 8th info and also that the Freemen are still extant. I 'll have to get down to Gloucester this summer.
Keith
-
Hi Keith I noticed on another site that your man was born during September so im now wondering if he was born on the anniversary of some charter being given to the city.Tralee
-
Hi Tralee
Thanks for your continuing interest and suggestions. I've googled, inputting the year and Gloucester and a few other combinations without success, thinking it might be a celebration of a local event. It seems so far fetched making a baby (or babies) Freemen but grandma was always insistent. Think it is only likely to be solved by a visit to Gloucester and the Freemen records.
regards
Keith
-
I have a hand written attestation for my grandfather and great grandfather and I know that my uncle also was a freeman of gloucester. As my family seems to have the same poor background as yours and we can trace the award in our family back as far as 1730's when family still ag. labourers it must have something to do with being an original free man i.e. freed by the lordship inperpetuity. In our family it has always gone to the 2 eldest sons. Haven't found link yet but Glos Docks sounds good.Have you tried Ancestry .com they have Glos Parish and probate records giving names and dates latest 1818 but not, unfortunately reasons Let us know how you get on at Glos.docks.
CCR
-
Hi CCR
Thanks for your email. The fact that Gloucester habitually included poorer people with honours is very interesting. The bit where same falls down for me is that your family appear to have had the honour in an heridatary fashion whereas my uncle was born during the family's brief stay in the city. My grandad was a telephone linesman at a time of immense expansion of the telephone/telegraph network and of course followed the work all over the country, probably rather like the cable TV services when they were rolled out. No, I haven't tried Ancestry yet and it will likely be some time before I get down to Gloucester. Tralee, on these pages, is hoping to put me in touch with the secretary of the present day Freemens association, that might at least give me an insight as to why my uncle was honoured in this way. regards Keith.
-
Hi Keith The Mayors Office no longer hold the freemans records i suspect due to the increased interest in Family History.The records are held by the Hon Sec whose details i will send you. Good Luck Tralee
PS If you do solve this one dont forget to let us all know.
-
Hi Keith
I have had someone ask me about records for Freemen of Gloucester and I thought of you!
I would be pleased to know whether you had any luck in trying to trace the records, so that I might be able to help them find theirs.
Thanks for any help or advice
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
-
Hi Arranroots
Sorry, not had any success yet. I did write to the Hon Sec of the Freemens Association but unfortunately the address was incorrectly given to my informant (I think it was Tralee) by the Town Hall so didn't get delivered. I then wrote to the correct address, with an sae of course, but still no reply.
regards
Keith
-
Thanks for responding Keith
We will have to see what can be done then!
I will let you know if I discover their whereabouts!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
-
http://www.softdata.co.uk/gloucester/18th.htm
A little info here :D
-
On a different note, do you know how your ancestor is connected with the Sproston family? I am researching the Sprostons, who married both Challeners and Nokes'.
See http://www.sproston.org.uk/ for further details.
All the best
Susan
-
Interesting!
Searching on the net for my g-grandfather's lot (his name was GIBBINS), I found, in ploughing through the dozens of entries, that there were GIBBINSs who were made freemen of Gloucester, and wondered why. Seems, from posts here, that if they just bought the honour.
Now, does that ring any bells ... ;)
-
I have been told by a local historian that if an ancestor completed an apprenticeship then he and his heirs were awarded the freedom to vote. How true this is I do not know but my ancestors did have a forebear who was a baker and one who was a shoemaker so maybe thats the connection. Still have not heard anything from the Hon Sec.
CCR
-
Susan - think we may have met at Barbara Davies home a year or to back. Didn't know about the Sproston site but looking at it my uncle (and obviously me) are related to Samuel. If you want to correspond about my lineage back to Samuel contact me on Moderator comment: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the PM system for personal details
colinrh - my uncle's family would not have been in a position to buy anything. I guess they were near poverty line
ccr - again, my ancestors were transient in Glos. Grandad had been a confectioner, carter etc so I don't think there was any heriditary or trade connection.
Thanks to everyone who has commented on my problem. Keep up the advice please!
Keith
-
What happened in Gloucester / England in 1894?
Tower Bridge was opened (June 30th)
The future King Edward VIII was born (June 23rd)
Prevention of Cruelty to Children Act
Local Government Act created urban and rural districts
Ancient Gloucester town hall (Tolsey) replaced by modern building
...any other ideas?
-
loads of stuff here
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Gloucester,_England
-
Hi I too am looking to find out more about Freemen of the City of Gloucester as I have found that associated with one of my gggggrandfathers. Anyone know more about the Freemen thing? My ancestors connected to this are LAMBKIN/JENKINS.
Cheers
Pamela Johnson
-
Hi,
If Freemen of the City of Gloucester is the same award as Burgess of a city, then it is possible to be awarded this privilege by merit of marrying the daughter of a Burgess (Freemen).
This means that the holder of this title does not have to follow a specific trade.
Elizabeth