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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: cathayb on Monday 23 May 11 17:09 BST (UK)

Title: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: cathayb on Monday 23 May 11 17:09 BST (UK)
hi i wonder if any one could help me again.a friend is desperately seeking jane black.black being her maiden name as far as we know.i will give you what i have which is very little!!!

looking for the parents of jane black who had children with fred bull around 1920 possibly worcester to hampshire = thanks

?she had children with fred bull around 1920 so theres a good chance we can find her in either the 1911 cencus or the 1901 even.lets see if we can get this one sorted.
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: lizdb on Monday 23 May 11 17:17 BST (UK)
Without further info any findings will be complete guesswork.

If she was having children in 1920, she must have been, say aged 16 - 45 then.
So she was born 1875-1904.

She was in Worcester or Hampshire then - but could have been born anywhere and spent the previous years of her life anywhere.

sorry, but a bit of a non starter!

You say Black is her maiden name - so does that mean you know she married? If so, when and to whom? Her marriage cert might give more to go go (maybe an age, and a fathers name and occupation)
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: cathayb on Monday 23 May 11 18:36 BST (UK)
we know she married fred bull but we havent a certificate i dont think.i will ask my friend.she had children 1920 with fred bull so i suspect she was born around 1900 and we know she was a traveller.
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 23 May 11 18:40 BST (UK)
I'm sorry but 1911 census requests are not allowed - please see here:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,355484.0.html

The index is free to search and there are lots of suggestions on this thread:

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,492718.0.html
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: cathayb on Monday 23 May 11 18:54 BST (UK)
ah thats fine.thanks for telling me.folks if you could just look for her 1901 or pre 1901 i would be grateful or if anyone knows her family line i wopuld be interested.
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: cathayb on Monday 23 May 11 19:07 BST (UK)
right theres a good chance it was hampshire area and pre 1901 her bith as i have her husband now.but my friend isnt sure they were married or just jumped the broom!!!!

 Fred Bull census of 1901, Froxfield Hants, as a child of 9 years born Ropley Hants, and parents named George & Julia Bull, along with his siblings,
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 24 May 11 09:45 BST (UK)
The only Black / Bull marriage is:

Oct/Nov/Dec 1933 Sheppey Kent ref 2a 2739

Fred Bull / Constance E E Black.

What do the birth certs of the children of Fred and Jane say? Is Fred named as the father? Are they registered as Blacks or Bulls? Is the mother given as Jane Black, or Jane Bull nee Black, (or possibly Constance k/a Jane!)

If you have any success tracking any possibles for her in 1911 do put your findings here, then we can look back to 1901, if it turns out she was born pre 1901.
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: cathayb on Tuesday 24 May 11 11:19 BST (UK)
Fred Bull and Jane Black no marriage found but jane and fred had a daughter called jane bull mothers maiden name jane black according to daughters certificate.

now this is just a feeling i got that i read somewhere else that jane birch born 1863 married a black sometime after the 1871 cencus (cause she was still with her perants)but before 1881 cencus cause shes not with her perants.1933 is far too late unless they married after the kids by the way.their kids were born 1920 onwards...i got to be careful what i post as alot of it is after 1911 and we have a 100 year rule dont we?
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 24 May 11 11:36 BST (UK)
If Jane Black had been married before then her maiden name would be Birch, not Black.

What makes you thimk that this Jane Black nee Birch is the mother of the children with Fred Bull?
If she was born 1863 then it is not really possible, she would be 57 by 1920.

By the way, the ruling on Rootschat is that we dont give details of anyone who might still be living.
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: cathayb on Tuesday 24 May 11 12:08 BST (UK)
no jane black nee birch would be the mother of jane black who was with fred bull?and i now think they were in devon.i know there is a black lay (long dead) who was the cousin of my husband who is a birch s granma.in other words two grandmothers one a birch and one a black were cousins.they were in devon around the time of the two grandmothers both families.its confusing aint it.
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: cathayb on Tuesday 24 May 11 12:56 BST (UK)
its so hard without putting my whole tree on and not mentioning living folki but i wonder if you can make sense of this

right the way i see it at the momnet is we got to look for minnie black with her family and see if they had a jane?i am getting mixed up with the generations though.minnie black was definace  small(maggies mum) real mother but she died in hampshire aged 26 leaving six kids!now if minnie black was cousin to bob birchs children and also to alfies birchs children and so also charlotte birch children who married the jane birch(must of been a black?am i right?cause we know who the others married apart from mary ann who could also be a contender?
one of those two girls married a black(i think jane)and had a daughter jane black who married fred bull.am i making sense?
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 24 May 11 15:49 BST (UK)
.am i making sense?

Well . . . .not really! because you started by saying you knew noting about Jane Black except she had children around 1920, but from that you wanted to find her parents.
Now it seems you know all about her mother and lots of other more distant rellies! -  Minnie Black, Bob Birch, Alfie Borch, Charlotte Birch ..... ???
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: cathayb on Tuesday 24 May 11 16:18 BST (UK)
righ that is because i didnt know at first she was distantly related to us.i was looking for a friend.robert,charlotte,alfie and a few more were brothers and sisters including a jane birch.they started off around hampshire and i have a pretty full tree of them but i had never followed ljanes line except to know she married someone called black.yesterday i heard from my friend that they think the jane i am looking for has connections to the frankum line.well charlotte birch married samuel frankum.so if my jane birch married a black and had a child called jane black they would ce cousins of the frankum kids.
forget the first jane black for now and i am looking for a marriage or a family of blacks in devon or hampshire from 1881 onwards with a daughter called jane aswell born after 1881.father black but christian name unknown.this could bring me to the jane black that married fred bull.
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 24 May 11 16:25 BST (UK)
Cathay,why don't you have a bit of a play around with the free website http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/  to see if you can link the names you know to the surnames.

It is as you say very difficult to askf ro help when you can't mention living people.

If they are still living can't you ask them what they know?

It is all very confusing especially as you aren't using any capital letters or new sentences/paragraph's too  ;)

Carol
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: cathayb on Tuesday 24 May 11 17:18 BST (UK)
Thanks,I will try and write better!!
I guess it boils down to one question now can i find a marriage for Jane Birch b.1863 Wiltshire to ? Black.
I will play with the link you gave me although i dont really understand how it works yet.

I have asked the living relatives and they are all too hazy,but they do remember Jane Birch married a Black,and that they lived later on at least around the Bovey Travey areas of Devon
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 24 May 11 18:15 BST (UK)
Fred Bull and Jane Black no marriage found but jane and fred had a daughter called jane bull mothers maiden name jane black according to daughters certificate.

Would this be in Hampshire in 1925?

Carol
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: cathayb on Tuesday 24 May 11 18:22 BST (UK)
Yes,that is correct!!!!!I didnt say cause although shes now dead I didnt like to break the 100 year rule I hear about.
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 24 May 11 18:41 BST (UK)
There is no marriage just before that that fits though,so maybe they never did marry.Perhaps one of them wasn't free to do so?

Or perhaps she'd been married before and the registration is under a different surname?

Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: cathayb on Tuesday 24 May 11 18:49 BST (UK)
Forget what i have said about Jane Birch.
I have heard now from family with cert that she married someone else.so that leaves only one sister that could have married a Black and that is Mary Ann Birch born Yeovil Somerset in 1853.

But correct so far is Jane Black and Fred BUll had a daughter 1925 born hampshire.
I am still looking for Jane Blacks perants.i do know who the daughter Jane Bull married but there are close descendants still living.
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: cathayb on Tuesday 24 May 11 18:52 BST (UK)
I wondered that aswell.
There was a son born to Fred and Jane in 1920 by the way
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: maryhedges on Wednesday 16 November 11 21:29 GMT (UK)
http://black.and.white.tripod.com this website might be worth a look jane black is on the website she was connected to the bulls

my dad is a black we are from Tadley

Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: rovert on Saturday 26 November 11 10:54 GMT (UK)
Cathay, could these be yours

Fred Bull born Ropley 1892, parents George bull, Julia kempster.
he either married or jumped the broom with Jane Bowers
Jane born abt 1889 Surrey died 1861 Surrey

Jane and Fred had 8 children,  there is a Fred and Jane

Fred born Worcester
Jane born south Stoneham

Regards




Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: cathayb on Saturday 26 November 11 14:45 GMT (UK)
maybe,i will have alook at my tree later and see!!!
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: atwistofgold on Sunday 27 November 11 00:42 GMT (UK)
Hello Cathy,
I am new on the board but i have been reading here for quiet a while as a guest,so today i joined because i need to jump in.

Ok this is how it is Fred Bull is the son of George Bull
Fred partnered with Jane Black, Jane is the daughter of John George Black,John George Black was the son of Walter willis Black, Wlter willis was the son of Amos Black and Mary Jane white.
Now you mentioned a name earlier (Small) Janes sister married James Small.another sister married Henry Barney.

John George Black married Mary S Rose.
Mary Rose was the daughter of William Rose and Martha Bull.
Martha Bull was the daughter of Stephen Bull and eva Mason aka Planevy.

smalls in dorset. bulls in hants,wilts, surrey ect .

Fred was in the last war lived in a caravan on salisbury green common with his mum dad and jane..


best wishes
Title: Re: jane black 1900+cc
Post by: maryhedges on Sunday 27 November 11 12:21 GMT (UK)
there on this website http://black.and.white.tripod.com