RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: Mundell on Monday 23 May 11 11:39 BST (UK)
-
Can anyone guide me to earlier information about Euphemia Todd. I have been able to find the birth details of some of their children as follows:-
Children of Robert Walton & Euphemia Tod
1. 24 Feb.1805, dau. Mary Walton b. Dairsie, Fife, Scotland
2. 26 Feb. 1807, son George Walton b. Dairsie, Fife, Scotland
3. 16 Jan. 1809, son John Waltown b. Dairsie, Fife, Scotland
4. 11 Jan. 1811, son Robert Walten b. Dairsie, Fife, Scotland
However, I cannot find marriage details for this couple, or birth details and parents for Euphemia.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Mundell
-
Hi Mundell
I too have come across this stumbling block regarding the marriage of Robert and Euphan/Euphemia. There is no trace of a marriage on scotlandpeople, so I have come to the conclusion that they never married. It would seem that Robert was just 16 when their first child Mary was born in 1805.
No trace of Euphemia's birth either.
Robert went on to marry Margaret Melville at Leuchars in 1814, they had 5 daughters between 1816 and 1827.
Also can't find any trace of Euphemia or her children on the 1841 census, but Robert was living in St Andrews with his ' legitimate ' daughters, his wife having died in 1839
Robert died in 1843, a newspaper 'obit ' states he was a gardener for 26 years in the family of Dr Briggs!
Jenc
-
Hello jenc,
That's all a bit of a surprise. I'm sorry we have both had the same problem. I expect you are right - that there is no marriage for Robert and Euphan and yet they had all those children. I have found several Euphemia Todds, but can't tell which would be the most likely. I would like to know because she is obviously one of my blood relatives.
You have much more information that I have though. I don't have details of a Robert Walton born in 1789. Can you tell me where he was born?
Thanks for the detail of marriage to Margaret Melville and the other information. Especially the news 'obt.' Please would you tell me how you obtained that?
Regards, Mundell
-
Hi Mundell
Robert Walton was born on the 15th January 1791 in Creich, he was the son of William Walton b. 1771 Dairsie and Mary Law. His sister Euphemia was my 3 x great grandmother.
I have been trawling through my notes to find out where I got the info on the 'obit' but no success, must have been a few years back when I was researching the Walton side of the family.
I cam across some correspondence I had with a descendant (I think of George b. 1807, Robert and Euphemia's second child) he couldn't find any trace of a marriage either, but apparently on George's death certificate they are both given ' an honourable mention '
Interestingly and maybe significantly, another sister of Robert Walton was Hurcellia b. 1797, and
her middle name was Todd!
Regards Jenc
-
Hello again Jenc,
Thanks so much for that very useful information. I had got a Robert Walton at Creich in 1792 and thought that too young to be the correct one. Must have started young! Of course, I have discovered that these dates and ages can sometimes be a couple of years out.
That is fascinating research you have been able to do. Robert and Euphan's son John is my 2 X Great Grandfather and therefore Robert and Euphan are my 3 x Great Grandparents. So I guess at that level we are related! I think that 'honourable mention' and the inclusion of 'Todd' clinches that there is a significant 'Todd' line to this family. I have come across 2 similar situations later in the 1800's where the official birth parents are not the ones named on marriage certs. and used as middle names etc. and it does require a leap of imagination to accept that there may have had to be a family adjustment to legitimise a child along the way.
Thanks for the note about the obt. anyway. I've made a note of it in my file. Who knows I may come accross it one day.
Regards. Mundell
-
Hello Again Jenc.
I hope you don’t mind if I ask a further question. I think it is a bit of a long shot, as I know our families followed different strands from brother and sister Robert and Euphemia Walton, but I wonder if in researching your Walton family you have come across the name Helen Kenley? This is another mystery I have encountered.
My Grandmother was Alison Kenley Walton.
Her father John named Helen Kenley as his mother on his marriage certificate.
Other records and certificates give his parents as John Walton (Robert’s son) and Elizabeth Rollo.
Kenley was clearly an important name for him.
I have located several Helen Kenleys (and variations) but have not been able to determine a connection with John Walton or the Walton family.
Life events of John Walton
1809 Birth of John Walton - Parents - Robert Walton and EuphemiaTodd
1838 Marriage Banns John Walton and Elizabeth Rollo
1843 Birth Record of John Walton - Parents - John Walton and Elizabeth Rollo
1860 Marriage John Walton and Janet Brown - John's parents given as John Walton and Helen Kenley
1872 Birth Alison Kenley Walton
1927 Death Cert. John Walton -Parents - John Walton and Elizabeth Rollo
I just thought I should take this opportunity to ask you since we have the Walton family in common.
Regards, Mundell
-
Hi Mundell
That is indeed a mystery ???
I cannot find any trace of Helen Kenley among the Waltons. Could it possibly been a mistake on John's part when giving his mother's name on his marriage certificate. I know from experience that could be true. On my maternal grandmother's death certificate her maiden name was completely wrong, it should have been Dickson but was given as Forsyth. It was fortunate that I DID know for sure that her maiden name was indeed Dickson. One of her sisters was married to a Forsyth, so it could be human error on your John's part. Intriguing though that he gave your grandmother the middle name of Kenley.
I don't know if you have these but on trying to find an answer to the mystery I found 3 other children born to John Walton and Elizabeth Rollo (there could be more) -
Robert Walton 1839 Kemback
James Walton 1840 Cameron
Elizabeth Dickson Walton 1851 Carnbee.
It appears from this that Elizabeth Rollo was still alive in 1851 at least, 9 years before the marriage of John in1860.
Have you tried checking the census for 1851 onward? I looked up the 1841 census and John and Elizabeth are residing at Radernie, Cameron, with their children Robert aged 2 and James aged 6 months.
I also found siblings for your Alison (you probably know of these already but just in case) -
Robert 1860 Scoonie (probably died in infancy as younger brother also named Robert)
Andrew 1862 "
Robert 1863 " middle name Bisset
John 1863 " (again, probably died in infancy as younger brother also named John)
John 1865 "
Janet 1868 Kirkcaldy
James 1870 Strathmiglo
then of course your Alison b. 1972 back in Scoonie.
I hope you get to the bottom of this mystery, as they say always more questions than answers!
Regards from Jenc.
-
Sorry I meant your Alison b. 1872 not 1972 :-[
-
Hi Jenc,
Thanks so much for the time you have taken over this. Yes, I also have come across a few mistakes on Certificates. However, I do feel that Helen Kenley must have been important. I will keep an open mind on it, and who knows may find some lead in future searches.
Yes, I do have Alison's siblings. However, I did not have those details of John Walton and Elizabeth Rollo's children.
Robert Walton 1839 Kemback
James Walton 1840 Cameron
Elizabeth Dickson Walton 1851 Carnbee.
Dickson might well lead further back in either family. How interesting that Dickson was also your Grandmother's maiden name
Your help has been much appreciated. Thankyou. Mundell
-
Hi Jenc / Mundell
Overwhelmed by your information.....Robert Walton & Margaret Melville produced my direct ancestor, George Walton (born 28th June 1818, died 19th March 1865). I had absolutely no idea nor inclination that Robert had a family prior to his marriage to Margaret.
Have you managed to track down anything further with Euphemia??
Not sure if I can help or provide you with any information, was just amazed with your findings!!
-
Hi Charjur
Nice to hear from you. No more updates on Euphemia unfortunately, but thank you for the information regarding your George b. 1818.
I only have his sisters listed on my tree as he isn't on the 1841 census with the rest of the family, so it's good to know of his existence. I would be grateful if you could fill in some of his details for me i.e. marriage, family etc. if you have any.
Welcome aboard the Walton clan :)
Jen
-
Hi
I'm not sure how accurate this information is as still to verify it but this is what I have on Robert Walton and Euphemia Todd,
Robert born 15 jan 1791 creich died 1843 Brechin Angus
Euphimia Tod born abt 1791
His parents William Walton chrisened 28 oct 1771 Dairsie
Mary Law christened 17 jan 1773 moonzie
His 2nd marriage was to Margaret Melville in 1814 Leuchars
Williams parents where Robert Walton/Euphan Clark
Roberts parents where
William Walton/janet Beatt
Married 28 feb 1732 Dairsie
As I said not sure how accurate info is but it might give you some help.
Robert/Euphemia where my great great great grandparents
-
Hi Babyangel
Welcome aboard the Walton tree. :)
All the info you posted is definitely accurate as I have researched all those details a wee while back and can confirm it is so. Janet Beatt may have been Janet Beggs,( still to be decided)...
Her spouse William Walton was born in Dairsie 23rd March, 1701, his father was David Walton, probably born c. 1780 Dairsie? More research needed! :(
I have visited Moonzie kirkyard where my direct ancestors William Walton and Mary Law are buried, it was quite emotional to find their resting place, (and others).
Nice to hear from another Walton clan member
Jenc
-
Hi jenc
Thank you for your reply, it's nice to know I was heading in right direction. I started doing the family tree about 10yrs ago and now resembles an encyclopedia lol, that is just my mums side. I haven't just stuck to the walton side but have also gone into the wives families of the walton men directly descended to me so hence quite a lot of info to work through, thank you again.
-
Hi again
It's never ending isn't it? All worth it though.
Regards from Jenc
-
The following inscription in Moonzie kirkyard for William Walton (jnr) helped me confirm his grandparents as being Robert Walton and Euphan Clark, the parents of his father William Walton (snr), husband of Mary Law:
Wm Walton, w Margt Donaldson 4.10.1866 60, da Isabella inf, s Jas 5.4.1846 14, da Mary 6.6.1868 38; (west side) Robt Walton 11.5.1808, by Euphan Clark, das Agnes, Margrit & Jean, gch Isabella
[Fifeshire The North East Parishes: monumental inscriptions pre 1855]
Robert Walton & Euphan Clark had four children recorded in the parish registers; Margaret c1769 Dairsie; William c1771 Dairsie; Agnes c1777 Moonzie; Jean c1779 Moonzie
From William Walton's 1771 christening record, Robert & Euphan were living at the farm of East Craigfoodie in that year.
Craigfoodie lies a half-mile (1 km) northwest of Dairsie. The mansion of Craigfoodie lies between farms at Wester Craigfoodie and Easter Craigfoodie, all located beneath Craigfoodie Hill.
Craigfoodie Hill rises to 169m (554 feet) a mile (1.5 km) northwest of Dairsie and 2 miles (3.5 km) southwest of Balmullo. Columnar basalt crags descend from Craiglug, a summit on its southern flank.
[Gazetteer for Scotland]
here are two pictures of the (modern) Easter Craigfoodie farm I found online: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lee6700/3871393978/ and
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Easter_Craigfoodie_Farm_-_geograph.org.uk_-_487569.jpg
And here are two modern pictures of Craigfoodie Hill:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/14508691@N08/4564375766/ and http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3474437
There is a 1745 deed registered in the Sherriff Court Books of Fife for a Robert Bett, residenter in Lordscairnie, m. to dec Mgt Dott, to his children including a Janet Bett, spouse of William Walton in Craigfoodie [6 Mar 1745]
Janet Bett and William Walton are living at the same farm in 1745 as Robert in 1771, which makes me fairly certain they are Robert's parents. By Margaret's baptism in 1779, the family is no longer living at Robert's childhood home, but in Nether Moonzie.
William Walton and Janet Bett/Beat/(Beggs) had their marriage and the christening of five children recorded in the Dairsie parish records; Christian c1737; Robert c1740; William c1742; Elizabeth c1745; Janet c1748. Sadly these baptisms records contain to additional information other than the names and dates of baptism.
Walton wasn't a particularily common name, though there are a number of other Walton/Waltone/Waltoun/Waltonne recorded in the early Dairsie parish records. A thorough study of these Waltons might lead to more family connections being found.
A William Walton appears in the Hearth Tax records for Dairsie 1691-1695 for two hearths. This is likely the father, uncle or grandfather of the William Walton who was married to Janet Bett.
-
The index of the deed from the Fife Family History Society:
BETT, ROBERT: residenter in Lordscairnie, m to dec Mgt Dott; Disp & Assig in favour of children: Robert (in Craigie), Janet (spouse of William Walton in Craigfoodie), & Helen (spouse of William Arthure in Lordscairnie); + legacies to Ann Scott (spouse of James Henderson, baxter in Cupar), and Janet Scott in Glasgow, daus of sd Mgt Dott by a former marriage; 6 March 1745 [SC20/36/7]
I've consulted the original document held at the National Records of Scotland at Edinburgh and have photographed it. If anyone would like a copy please message or e-mail me.
Robert Bett married Margaret Dott 2 Oct 1714 Leuchars. Known children:
(-Janet Bett m. William Walton)
-Robert Bett, in Craigie
-Helen Bett & William Arthur in Lordscairnie, married 1741 Dairsie & Moonzie. Known children: Mary 1743; Anabella 1745; Helen 1750; Margaret 1751; Jannet 1754; David 1756.
Margaret Dott was first married to a Patrick Scott who died sometime before October 1714. Here is a sumary of my research into their known children, half-siblings of Janet Bett:
-David Scott (c1705 Cupar)
-Janet Scott (c1706 Cupar), living in Glasgow in 1744
-Ann Scott (born unknown, buried 10 Apr 1760 Cupar) m. James Henderson, Baxter in Cupar. Known children: Margaret, buried 1744 Cupar; James c1746 Cupar (in her burial record, Margaret is recorded as James Henderson's "eldest daughter", so the couple seem to have had other children who went unrecorded).
-Margaret Scott (born unknown, d. 23 Apr 1778 St Andrews) & Thomas Aikman (d. 10 Sep 1771 St Andrews), Maltman In St Andrews, married in St Andrews 5 Nov 1730. Known children: John 1732; Margaret 1734; Alexander 1736; James 1738; Robert 1740; Thomas 1742.
Thomas Aikman in St Andrews was admitted as a mealmaker burgess of St Andrews of 31 Oct 1730 (6 days before his wedding)
-Isobel Scott (born unknown,d. 4 Nov 1758 St Andrews) & Thomas Trail (d. 5 Jun 1769 St Andrews), Land Labourer & Burgess in St Andrews, married in 22 Nov 1722 St Andrews
Known children: John 1723; Robert 1725; Ann 1727; Margaret 1730; Isabel 1732; Jean 1734; John 1736.
I'm happy to answer any questions should anyone have any.
-
Jen: I know you have David Walton as being William Walton(m.Janet Bett)'s father, but I'm not convinced.
Yes he could be the Willyam christened 23 Mar 1701 Dairsie, son of David Waltonne, however there's also a William Walton c. 11 May 1712 in the neighbouring parish of Leuchars to a James Walton and Margaret Ross and there's also the possibility that the birth went unrecorded. So I wouldn't like to make an assumption on William in this case.
PS: "Hurcelia" Tod Walton born 1797 Flisk to William Walton and Mary Law is a mistranscription! The original entry reads: Celia Tod Walton.
-
Hi Tunji
Yes I see the possibility now of David Walton not being the father of William. The fact that Walter's wife Janet Bett would seem to be have been born around 1714 (her parents Robert Bett and Margaret Dott having married in Leuchars that year. It would bring her nearer to the age of the Walter born in 1712 to James Walton and Margaret Ross!
I'll e-mail you.
Jen