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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex Lookup Requests => Essex => England => Essex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: CelticAncestry on Tuesday 26 April 05 23:52 BST (UK)
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Is there anyone who can tell me if there are any membership rolls to be viewed of parishoners of St. Mary's Church in Dedham circa 1770's-1780's. I am trying to find any information out that I can about Agnes Gardner--a spinster who lived in the area during that time period. She came from a well-to-do family and she was somewhat of a governess for her nephew Robert Barrie who attended school in Dedham. I have been unable to ascertain a date of death for Agnes in the IGI and I am wondering if there might be something in Colchester at the PRO there. I live in the USA and coming there to do research is not a possibility for me. Is there anyone who is familiar with what I am trying to achieve and can give me a little guidance?
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As far as I know it would be very unusual for any parish to keep 'membership rolls' of its parishioners - at that period especially. You could log on to the website of Essex Record Office at http://www.seax.essexcc.gov.uk where you could log on as a guest and search their on-line catalogue. Searching for 'Dedham' yields a daunting list of hundreds of pages of hits - the first page refers to a school in Dedham. You could surf for that perhaps.
On the second page you can see that records of baptisms, marriage and burials are available (in microfiche form) at Essex Record Office (but not online!) for the period you mention.
To ascertain whether a will exists in Essex would be easy and I am happy to look that up for you. However I think you need to be more precise with your info to increase the time feasibility of someone making other searches for you.
Incidentally the Essex Record office (HQ at Chelmsford) does have a branch at Colchester but the Public Record Office (now called the National Archive) is located at Kew on the western fringe of Greater London. I think that has an online facility for searching for wills (for a small fee).
I hope this helps
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No trace of Agnes GARDNER (or any spelling variant) in "Wills at Chelmsford Volume 3 1721-1858" -an index to wills now preserved in Essex Record Office, Chelmsford.
The National Archive online search facility may be of help however
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Thank you for the reminder to check in the National Archives... I was able to find Agnes Gardner of Dedham Essex... the Last Will and Testament was Proven on 15th Nov. 1813. When she first made out her Will, it states the following "John Spurling and John Strult, Clerks to Mr. Firmin Atty at Law, Dedham Essex.
Now on to the next quest--to find out where in Dedham Essex that she lived (name of the house)... and to find out if she was buried at St. Mary's Church.... I know that the Bishops Transcripts would give that information, I would guess with regard to burial.
Do you have any ideas on how I might be able to find out the name of her "abode"? Would the Bishops Transcripts also give that info?
Thank you for your help
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Agnes Gardner was buried in the Parish Churchyard of Dedham. I saw the microfiche image of the burial register at Essex Record Office (ref: D/P 26/1/8 fiche 1 of 3) and the entry in respect of her reads:
Agnes Gardner abode Dedham buried Nov 9 1813 age 78.
I have a photocopy of the image but it is poor quality to scan.
That's about as far as I can go. There is a good website at http://www.dedham-parishchurch.org.uk
It would be rash to assume that the grave is still there in 2005
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Thank you so much... a little over a year ago, I had saved my extra cash and made the flight from America, went to little Dedham, and searched the cemetary at St. Mary's looking for Agnes, but was unable to read any headstones prior to the 1860's...and what were there to read were almost unreadable due to the lichens and being worn down from rain, and other various reasons. Thank you for retrieving that information for me to confirm what I had believed to be true... that is now two down and one to go---the name of her home that she resided in. Perhaps that will be in the Bishops Transcripts!!.. .. Thank you again for your kindness, your expertise, and your help!!
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I'm glad you went to Dedham. What did you think of it? Did you expect that Agnes's home still existed?
Back in 1735 (when Agnes was born) most parishes (and I suspect Dedham was no exception) probably saw no need to record anything like an exact address which we would expect today. This was simply because Dedham was even smaller then than it is today.
And I doubt whether any BTs would provide anything extra because they were intended to be a kind of duplicate of the original registers and often they were an inaccurate duplicate.
Have you looked for Agnes's birth in IGI- in all England?
Having sounded a note of pessimism, there may be some kind of property records. Have you heard of Land tax assessments?
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Hello Again:
Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed the 2-3 hours I spent in Dedham looking around the town, in the churchyard, and checking out the school to the rear of the church and the school across the street from the church's main walkway....which I think is presently a family home. I noted that there is "grafitti" on the soft brick of what once was the school, with names and dates which go back to earlier than 1750....
I have high hopes that the house that Agnes lived in might exist today as there are many homes in close proximity of St. Mary's that did indeed exist even in the 1600's---to think it would have the same "post code" would be humerous; however, the house typically carries on it's name if it does exist unless changed into some type of multi-function place/terraced house, etc.
Yes, I have found Agnes in the IGI, having been born in Uttoxeter, Staffordshire--one of approx 11 children of Elizabeth Farington Gardner and Col. William Gardner...and their home in Uttoxeter is still in existance today, but it has now become offices for a legal firm.
I have heard of Tithe Maps, and somewhere in the back of my memory banks I have heard of Land Tax assessment records, but here again I am at a loss to know where they would be located and how best to try to access them.
In regards to pessimism--I look at this situation with Agnes and her home as a 50/50 chance -- "Cautiously Optimistic" might best describe my feelings at this point...
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Hallo again, I looked at Land Tax Assessments for Lexden Hundred, Parish of Dedham for years 1810-1815 on microfiche refs: Q/RPI 609-613 (five fiche in all) searching for the name Gardner. For each of those 5 years I found this entry:
Rental: 11* (the archivist confirmed that this figure is the acreage)
Owner's name: Gardner & Co
Occupier: Gardner & Co
Tax: 2 pounds 4 shillings
The entry was consistent except that only in the 3rd and 4th years was the name spelt as above - in the other years it was spelt Gardiner.
I have been told that there is no known way of identifying the land to which the acreage refers.
* The acreage may be made up of a number of plots.
As I understand it Tithe Awards were a 'one-off' in 1841 and Tithe AwardTranscripts are available (27 typed pages for Dedham) (Essex RO ref: D/CT 113A) and can be linked to the Tithe Map for Dedham (D/CT 113) -magnifying glass required!
The 1,168 plots listed in the transcripts are variously named (e.g. house and garden, Pightle field, Potato field, Sebbons farm). The name of the land owner is given (usually an individual - sometimes it is Duchy of Lancaster# as in the case of the Grammar School: or 'Independent' as in the case of the Church which was occupied by Rev. John True). The name of the occupier is given.
#In 2005 the Duchy of Lancaster is the name given to part of the machinery of government i.e the Crown and that may have been true (at least in part) even in 1810.
I saw 3 plots where a GARDINER was involved:
Plot 517: Cottage and Garden 1 rod 36 poles owned by John Gardiner and occupied by William Leach
Plot 664 Cottage and Garden 3 rods 23 poles owned by William Gardiner and occupied by William Moore
Plot 1069 Cottage and garden 12 poles only owned by John Mixer and occupied by Robert Gardiner
I also looked out for Robert Barrie in all of the above but did not see him.
Out of 1,168 plots only 24 were 11 acres or greater.
I only had time to see that plot 664 was just south of the plot named Birch Wood which was by far the largest plot and which was owned, almost inevitably, by a clergyman.
If you know that any of those Gardiners are yours a request for an 1841 census Dedham look-up may reveal the 'address(ses)'.
Finally it is an offchance but it may be worth searching the National Archive website for 'Duchy of Lancaster' and seeing whether it leads to Dedham School pupils and tenants etc
Still 50/50?
Best wishes
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Well I guess that I take a big boot in the proverbial optimistic backside... I've been on the go in the past 24 hours, logging in about 300 miles on my car, chauffering about some friends and family members--when I catch my breath and get a good night's sleep under my belt, I will have a look at Agnes Gardner's Last Will and Testament. Perhaps that might have a clue in it... In recaping what I do know, she lived in Dedham (why there I have no idea) in the 1780's because her nephew stayed with her when he attended Dedham School. We know that she lived there until her death and was buried in St. Mary's Churchyard. She never married. She was a woman of means. Clearly she must have rented a home. She was very close to her sister Dolly Gardner-Barrie-Clayton, and George Clayton is mentioned several times in her Will--perhaps there is a link there with the land... will get out my magnifying glass and see what I can uncover.
I know you went to alot of trouble and time to dig through the records for me... I can't thank you enough for the time and effort you have gone to in order to help me with what had been a brick wall--slowly I will be tearing it down... and it will come down!!
Thank you again for your kindness
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After having taken a deep breath and did a bit of checking on Agnes Gardner's Last Will and Testament, I came across this bit that I thought I would ask about... "Agnes bequeathed ALL her personal possessions to George and Edward CLAYTON, together with "all and every the Messuages lands tenements and hereditaments parts of the Messuages land tenements and hereditaments and all other my real estate whatsoever and wherever......" Wouldn't this tend to make one think that she possibly owned where she lived? Can you possibly tell me if there is a Deeds Registry somewhere in Essex that might have the information that I seek?
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Hallo again
When I looked at the Land Tax records for you, every page seemed to contain a column which was headed 'Rental' or 'Rent'.
And it seemed that every line in those columns had a number in it. On the strength of what the archivist told me, I earlier explained that the number signified the acreage to be taxed.
Because of this I assumed (and perhaps I should have explained this too) that this number took no account of the status (fiduciary or otherwise) of the owner/occupier but was just a number used for calculating tax. I cannot imagine local government in 18th century Essex being able to do anything more sophisticated than that.
In England and Wales we have a Land Registry (a government office) where in modern times at least deeds could be registered but the deeds themselves (which are steadily being replaced by modern land certificates) would be retained by the owners or their legal representatives.
I'll try to check the 1841 Tithe Awards for any Claytons and let you know the results.
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I could see no CLAYTONs in the list of Tithe Awards for Dedham. It is possible of course that any real property left by AG was not in Dedham.
Although it took a lot of perseverance to cope with the microfilm images, I had a look at the Land Tax Assessments for years 1816-1818 (Essex Record Office refs: D/RPI 615-617 inc).
In the first two of those years the owner's name becomes Gardener & Prior (at least to my eyes it looks like Prior).
By 1818 no entry for any Gardner/Gardener remains. Perhaps it took that long for the real property to be disposed of. No Clayton can be seen either.
I think I'll have to leave it at that for now.
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Well we have possibly a BINGO here-- Mary Prior was a companion of Agnes Gardner's... and she was mentioned in Agnes' will; however, in the Will she was only left 100 pounds... nothing was mentioned about any land given to her. Wondering if something was worked out between the Gardner family and Mary Prior that she would have a place to live?? I think this is what I have been looking for.
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Something tells me that Mary Prior must have passed away sometime in1817. I find it interesting that the surname is written Gardener, but then in my own specific surname research, family members added an additional letter and some did not... so I guess it isn't so unusual.
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The Dedham burial register Essex Record office ref: D/P 26/1/8 fiche 1 of 3 contains this entry on page 11:
Mary (or could be read as May) PRIOR of Dedham buried Sep 3 1815 age 53
It has occurred to me that there is a faint hope of some record at Suffolk RO which may help. I'll be going there soon and let you know what I find.
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There was a newspaper of the times called Ipswich Journal. Someone in years gone by prepared an old-fashioned card index of names which appeared in that newspaper even for mundane things such as property auctions. Because Dedham is close to Suffolk I had hoped that I might find your names mentioned in this index but sadly this was not the case.
I also looked in the book 'Wills preserved in Essex Record Office Vol 3 1721-1858' for all the names GARDNER/BARRIE/CLAYTON/PRIOR (or anyone from Dedham) but they did not feature.
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Hi: Thanks for taking the time to check the Ipswich Journal index and the "Wills Preserved in Essex Record Office Vol 3 1721-1858". You wouldn't find Sir Robert Barrie nor George or Dolly Clayton there because they all died in Lancashire. Lord Alan Gardner died in Staffordshire, Valentine Gardner died in London, and his son William Linnaeus Gardner (who founded Gardner's Horse) died in India. I was only able to locate Agnes Gardner's Last Will and Testament in the National Archives--why her Will appears in the Nat'l Archives but not in the book you looked through, I have no idea--that's certainly a puzzlement to me. As you did locate the date of burial for MRS. Mary Prior, and as she was listed as a "partner" in Agnes Gardner's Will, (which I had taken to mean companion but now believe they were also business partners possibly co-landowners) I have to believe there is something to the "Gardener-Prior" Land Tax Assessment record you found and posted to me on 23 May 05.
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Hallo again - I've been rooting around Dedham on another matter and I came across a card index system for property at Essex Record Office which included a reference to 'Llandoyley House' in Dedham. Bearing in mind your nom de plume...and Uttoxeter is fairly close to Wales after all...I felt I should let you know just in case... These are details from the 2 index cards in case I can't find them again:
B4889 Dedham 1912
Llandoyley House on main road from Colchester to Dedham
House and land in Station Road
B1021 Dedham 1910
Another copy
B4706 Llandoyley House
Plan and I have looked no further as yet.
Does 'Llandoyley' ring any bells?
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I have come across a manuscript on the life of Sir Robert Barrie and in it contains a mention of his aunt, Agnes Gardner, and that she ran a type of school for girls. The author of this manuscript did not footnote this to indicate where he found this information. Would there be any liklihood that her partner, Mrs Mary Prior, might have been a teacher at her house? Do you have any suggestions with this possibility?