RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Little_Nell57 on Monday 23 May 11 00:35 BST (UK)
-
Trying to find out if I have the correct Josiah CHAPMAN for my family. Josiah CHAPMAN b. 19 November 1826 Christened 16 April 1827 Independent or Calvanistic Independent, Wisborough Green, Sussex, England. My Josiah left for Australia and arrived January 1855 with his brother, Samuel, aboard the 'Bangalore'. They arrived as assisted immigrants.
Family lore has Samuel leaving for South Australia at some point after arrival in NSW, and his brother, Josiah, lost contact with him after a while. Is there any evidence that the Josiah of Wisborough Green had a brother Samuel? I have traced a Samuel CHAPMAN, in South Australia, but the contact re this person says he arrived three years earlier than my Samuel. However, his age and the time line suggests that perhaps he had gone to South Aus, and then returned to England to persuade older brother, Josiah to accompany him to Aus. His father is also listed as Josiah.
Information re christening lists parents as Josiah CHAPMAN and Ann ABBOTT. I do recall family members saying that there was a CHAPMAN as a minister of a church and the name Steeple Bumpstead mentioned, if this helps at all.
I would greatly appreciate any help given, as I am not in a position to buy certificates, or pay for viewing information relating to my family.
Narelle
-
There is a brother Stephen
Independent and Non Conformist
Baptism Register
Wisborough Green Billinghurst and Rudgwick Sussex
CHAPMAN Stephen
17th April 1827
Father = Josiah CHAPMAN
Mother = Ann CHAPMAN
A Samuel CHAPMAN was Baptised Non Conformist in City of London on 2nd Aug 1829 to parents Josiah and Ann?? I wonder??
Cheers
Karenlee
-
Hi KarenLee and thanks for that.
You just might be right. Just because born and christened in different places doesn't mean unrelated does it? The parents being the connection. I guess people moved around a lot back then in pursuit of work. I really need to find out if this is the right Samuel to trace his travel to Oz.
Cheers
Narelle
-
No idea if this helps at all..
There is a marriage in Adelaide South Australia between a Samuel CHAPMAN and a Caroline NEVILLE 9th Oct 1856. Groom's father is Josiah CHAPMAN.
-
1841 Census England Sussex Billingshurst
HO107/1092/17/3
Gingers Cottage
CHAPMAN
Josiah 45 Disenting Minister Not born in County
Ann 50 Not born in County
Josiah 14 Born in County
Samuel 12 Born in County
That helps... ;D ;D ;D
-
1851 Census England Essex Steeple Bumstead
HO107/1787/34/60
Chapel House
CHAPMAN
Josiah Head Marr 55 Independent Minister of Steeple Bumstead Chapel Kent Greenhithe
Ann Wife Marr 60 Minister's Wife Stepney London
Josiah Son Unmarr 24 Minister's Son Sussex Wisbro Green
Karenlee
-
1861 shows Josiah still in Steeple Bumstead, an Independent Minister and Post Master. New wife though... Catherine aged 51 ( I think hard to read ) born St Ann Soho Middlesex. 1871 same as 1861.
Marriage Register
St Katherine by the Tower
City of London
Josiah CHAPMAN, Bachelor and Ann ABBOTT, Spinster, both of this Parish were married in this Church by Banns this fifth day of November 1823 by me G.F.S. NICOLAY Minister. Both bride and groom signed. Witnesses were Cornelius WARDILL and Selina CHAPMAN
-
KarenLee, you are a GEM!! This certainly looks like you are on the right track. And the timeline still fits the Samuel CHAPMAN in South OZ, m. Caroline (some say MELVILLE, may also registered as NEVILLE). If Samuel was not on the 1851 Census, then he could well have travelled to South Australia, still had time to return to England and come back to Oz with Josiah in 1854 arriving January 1855. And if this is the right family, then it is nice to know that there may have been other siblings. Oh, what fun we have trying to piece together the giant jigsaws that are our families :P
Thank you, many times.
Narelle
-
There is this immigration record that might help sort things out for you...
NSW Assisted Immigrant Passenger List
August 1855
CHAPMAN Samuel 26 Carpenter living Plymout Devon Parents Richard and Mary A living at Hackney London. Religion = C of E. No relatives in Colony of Australia
-
Hi KarenLee
I have found the arrival of Samuel and Josiah in NSW. They arrived in January of 1855 aboard the 'Bangalore', but the record doesn't say whether they disembarked in Sydney or Newcastle (simply states Sydney/Newcastle). I know that Josiah stayed in NSW, and his sons, Josiah and William, were both registered in Paterson, NSW. Josiah snr married Catherine GALBRAITH and Josiah jnr married Elizabeth Ann SYMONDS, daughter of William SYMONDS and Jane Elizabeth MORTIMER. What happened to Uncle William is another problem for me to solve. I remember my father, Francis Josiah CHAPMAN (m. Eileen Gladys MCDONALD), talking about him, but being young one never listens intently, so now that I could use the information, I don't remember the details of his conversations.
What I do remember is Dad talking about gUncle Samuel going to South Australia, and the grandad was writing to him for a while, but that the letters died off and no-one had heard of Uncle Samuel since.
It doesn't help the search when you have so many common names, does it? I thought if I could pinpoint where Samuel CHAPMAN came from originally, I might be able to prove or disprove my theory re coming to SA and then going home to talk Josiah in to making the move. I just have a distinct feeling that I am on the right track with this, because the Samuel CHAPMAN who arrived on the 'Charlotte Jane' in SA in 1852 was the same age that our Samuel would have been at that time.
Narelle
-
Hi Narelle,
I have a g g grandfather Samuel Chapman in South Australia. He had 12 children with Eliza Gormin/Gorman, though I've found no marriage record for them yet.
Confirming when and how he arrived, finding his parents, birth etc has been a dead end so far so I recently started researching all the Samuel Chapmans in South Australia to see if I could figure out something by a process of elimination. I've been collecting bmd and newspaper cuttings from Trove. I haven't had time to organise it all yet beyond identifying mine. Two Samuel Chapmans seem to have stayed in Adelaide, two moved north to the Claire district. One seems to have stayed in Lochiel, north of Pt Wakefield and died there. The other (my Samuel) moved much further north eventually north Orroroo where the family ended up.
The interesting connection is that my Samuel Chapman had a child with Eliza Gormin born 3 Nov 1852 then no children until 1 May 1856. After that there is one every couple of years. That is the time period when you think Samuel went back to England.
The Samuel that married Caroline Neville with father Joshiah that Karenlee posted is the other one that moved north of Adelaide. This is his death notice.
Samuel Chapman - "Death 7 Nov 1878, aged 49, of heart disease, at Lochiel, beloved wife of Caroline Chapman." (Lochiel is north of Pt Wakefield.)
Australia Death Index, 1787-1985
Name: Samuel Chapman
Death Date: 7 Nov 1878
Death Place: Lochiel
Age: 49
Residence Place: Lochiel
Registration Place: Clare, South Australia
Page Number: 96
Volume Number: 91
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
I'm happy to pass on the other bits and pieces I've found but they are a bit of a jumble at the moment.
Best wishes,
Susan
-
Hi Susan
Thank you for your reply. It would be great to have further information to pursue. The problem with this family is the common use of names, which makes it difficult to sort out the correct lineage. The one thing I am sure of is his arrival date in Australia with brother Josiah, and the age stated in that information means that he would have been born in 1829 (age stated 25 years in January 1855 - arrival on the 'Bangalore'). If you would like to PM me, I can give you my email address and perhaps we can help each other sort out the correct persons for our particular families?
Narelle
-
I wonder why with this information, another request has been posted on the Australian Board today
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,541537.0.html
Cheers
Cando