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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Jude_the_obscure on Saturday 21 May 11 10:42 BST (UK)

Title: Dating please?
Post by: Jude_the_obscure on Saturday 21 May 11 10:42 BST (UK)
Hi, I've been reading this board for a while with interest but never posted before. Can anyone help date this picture? It was taken in Ireland and I think in the later part of the Nineteenth Century.

Thanks,
Judith.
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: Jude_the_obscure on Saturday 21 May 11 10:44 BST (UK)
and the back of it.
Thanks,
Judith
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: That_Daft_Laddie on Saturday 21 May 11 15:20 BST (UK)
To narrow your timeframe a little ........

Alex Ayton was based at '43 North Bruntsfield Place', Edinburgh from 1881 to 1890
His business remained at the same studio for about another 50 years,
but from 1891 onwards, the street was named 'Bruntsfield Place.

Source: > http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/pp/pp_ayton_cartes_de_visite_06-12.htm



Gordon

Edit:

Some details on Ayton at Shipquay Place, Londonderry ..........

http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_studios/0_studios_ayton_londonderry_shipquay_place_1890c.htm
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 21 May 11 16:57 BST (UK)
Everything about this says early 1890's.The cardstock is late 1880's -early 1890's design but the lady's dress style is the biggest clue.She's wearing a bodice with an extended shoulder known as a kick-up.This came about in 1889 -1893.This one is in the later stage so 1891-93.
jim
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: IgorStrav on Saturday 21 May 11 17:16 BST (UK)
I just wanted to share with you that I read this forum with huge interest particularly for the dating expertise shown here. 

I am but a mere novice, and there are some clues in thie particular dress which are very obvious, but I am so proud that the moment I saw this picture I said....oooh, 1893.....and Jim has agreed!  ;D

I only need to master all the styles of dress that DON'T have kickups, now, Jim.

Lovely picture, Judith, hope you'll be able to identify your ancestors now.  Thanks for sharing it.
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 21 May 11 17:49 BST (UK)
Quote
oooh, 1893.....and Jim has agreed!
Of course I could be wrong. ;)
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: IgorStrav on Saturday 21 May 11 17:51 BST (UK)
No you're not.

Not unless she was an amazing innovator, or alternatively was wearing a dress several years old.

 ;)
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: Jude_the_obscure on Saturday 21 May 11 18:28 BST (UK)
Hi, thanks for your help. I know nothing about dating! The photo must be of a brother or sister of my 3Xgreat grandparents who came from Ireland before this. Might be able to figure out who it is from the 1901 census thanks to the dating. Many thanks,
Judith.
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: Jude_the_obscure on Saturday 21 May 11 21:02 BST (UK)
I would welcome any advice here, based on the date people kindly provided, the sitter could only be the sister of my 3Xgreat grandmother, I bought a marriage certificate for her which gave the right name for the father (a different occupation for him but I can live with that), I then tried to find them on the 1901 Irish census and seem to have with the exact number of children and genders of children to match the photo and all at the exactly right ages for the sitters in 1893. So far so good. Not only that but the name of the daughter- Caroline Speers- turns up as a witness on my 3xgreat grandmother's daughter's wedding in England- there is no birth, marriage, death or 1901 or 1911 census record for this Caroline Speers in the right area in England suggesting to me that it's right and she is a cousin and witnessed the wedding while visiting. Not only that but on the 1901 census the family I found are living 2 minutes walk from where the photo was taken at Ship Quay Place. It all sounds perfect but there's one black mark- on census the mum is 8 years too young. Her age is given as 40 when it should be 48 and her husband's is given as 42 which may or may not be right, I don't know. But I'm going on and on, what I'd like to know is have a I got the right family or is the 8 years too young too much of a leap? Thanks.
Judith.
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: IgorStrav on Saturday 21 May 11 21:08 BST (UK)
What evidence do you have that she was 48 in the 1901 Census?  Do you have her birth reference?
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: That_Daft_Laddie on Saturday 21 May 11 21:19 BST (UK)
I'd recheck any other sources you have for her and the family.

The census invigilator may have misheard her age or perhaps scribbled it down making it hard to distinguish an 8 from a 0

and sometimes people didn't always tell the truth on census forms.  ;)


Gordon
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: Jude_the_obscure on Saturday 21 May 11 22:05 BST (UK)
IGI has the Moneymore baptisms where she was born, I have her born 1852, daughter of Benjamin Workman, a carpenter. On the census she is aged 40 so born around 1861 (so nine years not 8), the marriage cert gives her father as Benjamin Workman, farmer and her husband Robert's father as David. The family on census have a David and I found a baptism for him as David Benjamin Speers suggesting that the census family are definitely the ones from the marriage certificate, it's just whether there was another Mary Workman daughter of Benjamin kicking around the area. I'm not sure and yet their address at 4 Clarence Street is round the corner from Ship Quay Place and them having a daughter called Caroline when a Caroline Speers witnessed my 3Xgreat gran's daughter's wedding seems a bit of a coincidence, the photo actually belonged to the daughter whose wedding Caroline Speers witnessed also and as I said I can find no evidence in England of this Caroline Speers. I find this family history research very difficult!
Judith .
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 21 May 11 22:30 BST (UK)
apart from an enumerator error as already mentioned it depended on who was giving the information.
Have you found her in 1911?

jim
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: Jude_the_obscure on Saturday 21 May 11 23:09 BST (UK)
No the entire family is absent from the Irish 1911 census children and all, they don't seem to be on the English 1911 either. If the Caroline Speers who signs the marriage certificate in England in 1904 is the same one as the possible cousin in Ireland then this is the last sign of them. Either I can't find them or they have gone somewhere else. I bought the marriage record for another of the sisters and one I know to be definite and this also gives the same different occupation as the one I bought for these so it removes that niggle. Thanks for your help everyone. I will have to think about this some more.
Judith.
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 21 May 11 23:23 BST (UK)
Maybe they emigrated.
You could start a new topic on the beginners board & ask for someone to look at those records.

jim
Title: Re: Dating please?
Post by: Jude_the_obscure on Sunday 22 May 11 09:14 BST (UK)
Thanks Jim I've going to try that. Don't know where to start with emigration. My son has inputted the information on to his ancestry tree but no joy there either, we were hoping for a quick fix from an ancestry hint. Can I say thanks to all the people who have helped me with this, your advice is much appreciated. Thank you.
Judith.