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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Nick29 on Wednesday 18 May 11 10:18 BST (UK)

Title: Old headstone ?
Post by: Nick29 on Wednesday 18 May 11 10:18 BST (UK)
Can any of the eagle-eyed people here make anything out from this old gravestone that I came across while searching for my g.g. grandfather's grave ?  It was right up against the church side wall, and was told by the church archivist that some of the stones in this location were moved here when the original church on the site was rebuilt.  It's tantalising because I can pick out the odd word. We had to pull the branches of a bush away from the stone, and I think the rubbing of the branches have worn some parts faster than others.
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Seoras on Wednesday 18 May 11 13:17 BST (UK)
Phew,only at the bottom,'also the  body of Walter' then a leaf covers the surname ???
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 18 May 11 13:36 BST (UK)
I'm not very good at these puzzles, but might the name at the bottom be Walter Bates?  :-\

But at the top of the stone the first letters (of a name?) look a bit like W Y ...

"Here lies the body of Walter Yates who departed this life Aprill ..."

At the bottom -: "Also the body of Walter ?ates..."
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Seoras on Wednesday 18 May 11 13:45 BST (UK)
Could be right there Ruskie,but maybe Yeates,as I am seeing an E.
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: teaurn on Wednesday 18 May 11 13:46 BST (UK)
Would this be a good case for monumental rubbing, sometimes the rubbing can pick up traces of lines which the eye cant see.

Although I think you would need the permission of the Church as if not done properly it can cause more damage
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Nick29 on Thursday 19 May 11 10:41 BST (UK)
It's not my family, so the interest is purely academic.  I didn't spot the leaf over the name until I got home, and the churchyard is 2 hours drive away  :-[

I'm interested because the stone appears to be quite old, and I wondered if anyone could spot a date anywhere.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think the date 1758 appears after the word 'April'
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Seoras on Thursday 19 May 11 12:11 BST (UK)
Certainly looks like it Nick and there appears to be a 3 before that date.

Beginning of the word 'whosoever' after the date too,next line down.
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Nick29 on Thursday 19 May 11 13:48 BST (UK)
The church was rebuilt in 1867, and the stone stands very close to the side wall of the church.   The church archivist told me that several graves near the original church wall (it's St Johns Church, Eltham, Gtr London, by the way) had to be moved when the new bigger church was contructed, and were re-sited when the work was finished. 
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Nick29 on Sunday 22 May 11 17:46 BST (UK)
I've asked a friend if he can remove the weed and re-take the photo.
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: dobfarm on Monday 23 May 11 07:13 BST (UK)
In negative
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: dobfarm on Monday 23 May 11 07:19 BST (UK)
in back  and white

April the 5th 17?7 (1717)

3rd line up -53 years
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Nick29 on Monday 23 May 11 08:55 BST (UK)
Wow, the negative works well, doesn't it ?  I'm going to try that on some of my other photos !  :)
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: tadorsett on Saturday 04 June 11 16:00 BST (UK)
You might also try viewing the picture on an application like Photoshop, and increase the contrast and manipulate the brightness to intensify the strokes of the inscription. 
TAD.
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Nick29 on Saturday 04 June 11 16:19 BST (UK)
Thanks for that  :)

Here's a picture with the weed removed from the bottom, which a friend took for me....

Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: dobfarm on Saturday 04 June 11 18:40 BST (UK)
Getting better!

Can your  friend take a trowel on next visit about 5 inch deeper should do it !and repair soil level after to what it was!  (sorry to be blunt! ;D) also rub the whole gravestone writting with wet moss or damp soil & clean off excess.
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Nick29 on Sunday 05 June 11 11:36 BST (UK)
Hmm.... I'm not sure he'll want to do that, in case someone tells him off  :)

It's one thing taking risks for yourself, but completely different when it's for someone else  ;)
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: dobfarm on Sunday 05 June 11 12:14 BST (UK)
He could ask the church warden first for permission as being careful. Only a suggestion. I done it many times.
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Nick29 on Sunday 05 June 11 12:16 BST (UK)
I'll have a word with him  :)
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: dobfarm on Sunday 05 June 11 12:52 BST (UK)
It will natter you! not knowing!  ??? whats under the letters at the bottom!  :-\

He who persists! gets results.

Good luck! and hope  ;)

Dobby
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: SamMapes on Thursday 09 June 11 12:57 BST (UK)
I too suggest the boy to ask the chruch warden to take the permission from them.  Its really fantastic to see all the pictures. I think its very difficult to get it.

Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: dobfarm on Thursday 09 June 11 13:27 BST (UK)
Hi Sam

Welcome too Roots chat!


I would go and read the beginners advice on the Welcome page before you post!
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Ruskie on Thursday 16 June 11 14:42 BST (UK)
I too suggest the boy to ask the chruch warden to take the permission from them.  Its really fantastic to see all the pictures. I think its very difficult to get it.

headstone (http://www.timelessheadstonesandmemorials.com/) | grave markers (http://www.timelessheadstonesandmemorials.com/)


Which boy?  :-\ I think Nick's friend is a grown man.  ;D
Where do your links lead to SamMapes? I think most of us are cautious about clicking on this kind of thing in case we get a nasty surprise.


I must say that the temptation would be to dig a little deeper with that stone Nick.  :-\ The trouble with asking, is that the reply might be a 'no,' and by doing so you will have attracted the attention of the authorities, so no chance of a sneaky poke around.  ;)

On the other hand if you just nonchalantly wander over and scrape a bit more dirt away, you may go completely unnoticed. If caught, claim innocence or plead ignorance.  :)
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: dobfarm on Thursday 16 June 11 15:33 BST (UK)
I took a pick and shovel to do my granddads grave up and just did it! after told the church warden. He just laughed and said it's your grave.

Dobby
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Gragareth on Thursday 16 June 11 19:47 BST (UK)
If you can visit the stone again do so when the sunshine is shining across the stone. Likely around mid-day as most inscriptions face east.  Also have a mirror to shine light across the stone face.  May mean several visits for ideal lighting.
The stone could've sunk and lettering may be below ground level.
There could be clearer lettering !  Doing the above it's surprising sometimes how much can be read on a very worn stone.
Gragareth.
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Nick29 on Friday 17 June 11 08:34 BST (UK)
Unfortunately the stone is very close to the church wall, and a large tree, so only a limited amount of light falls upon it.

As I said in a much earlier comment, the stone is not connected with my family - I was interested to see what it said because the stone looked very old, and I knew that some graves had been moved when the church was rebuilt in the 1860's.

Incidentally, the 'boy' is 63  :)
Title: Re: Old headstone ?
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 17 June 11 09:06 BST (UK)
Unfortunately the stone is very close to the church wall, and a large tree, so only a limited amount of light falls upon it.

As I said in a much earlier comment, the stone is not connected with my family - I was interested to see what it said because the stone looked very old, and I knew that some graves had been moved when the church was rebuilt in the 1860's.

Incidentally, the 'boy' is 63  :)

 ;D