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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: nvb272 on Tuesday 17 May 11 18:04 BST (UK)
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Hi
does anyone know if the workhouse had a number? my gt gt grandfather was living at 129 St.John's road in 1939, my partners gran was born there in 1909, i have also noticed others who lived there too.
the censuses seem to only go up to 127.
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Yes, Islington workhouse was 129 St John's Road.
See http://www.workhouses.org.uk/ Click on 'Do you have any post-1904 workhouse birth/death certificates' top right of the page for an explanation.
Jennifer
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hi i,ve just looked at all available censuses from 1861 onward and no 129 shows for st johns road islington , in 1861 cen it only shows up to around 24 -in 1871 -it only shows 10 records but no house numbers at all -then in 1881it goes up to 212 with the very last property on the list being the workhouse but no number attached to it the workhouse is run by george sustins and his wife mary - by 1891 cen again the numbering in the road goes up to 212 but the next property is the caretakers house for the wesleyan chapel and after that 3 more properties which must have been built in the previous 10 years as they have numbers but also a after each number there is no mention of the workhouse but on looking for george sustins it emerges he is still master of the workhouse but is now a widower - in 1901 cen again no mention of the workhouse nor in the last cen up to date so a bit of a mystery as to where 129 is .
what are your sources as to 129 , another thing is that when looking down the list of house numbers some have as many as 3 for the same number this probably is 3 different families living in separte parts of the same house but quite confusing all the same , a bit like this ramble of a post i hope you can make some sense out of it .
regards
trevor
ps i was just trying to post this but Jennifer beat me too it so pick out the relevant bits ;D ;D ;D
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Hi
The address was given as their birth/residence
my partners nan was born there and my gt gt grandfather died at another address but was residing there.
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Can I but in on this thread please? I have the death certificate of a relative who died in Islington Workhouse, St Johns Road in 1907. The fact that the informant was her husband residing at 11 Ambler Road Islington leads me to wonder if the workhouse had a general hospital open to the outside public. Any one got any ideas or info on this?
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Workhouses had infirmaries to which non-resident people had access. Many of them became NHS hospitals.
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Hi
Returns for institutions on censuses
'The institutional books are usually associated with the areas in which they stood. In 1841 they can usually be found at the end of the household returns for the place concerned, or at the end of the returns for the hundred in which they lay. In later years they can be found at the end of the returns for the relevant place, or for the registration district. The returns have also been microfilmed in this order. Indexes held at the Family Records Centre will give the appropriate census piece number...... These institutions were defined as every gaol, prison, penitentiary, house of correction, hulk or prison ship, workhouse, almshouse, hospital, infirmary, asylum, madhouse, public school, endowed school, college, barrack, and 'other public or charitable institution'.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hitch/gendocs/census.html
e.g. 1891 census
61-127 St John's Road Islington = RG12 145 folios 133-138
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:Islington_Registration_District,_1891_Census_Street_Index_S-T
St John's Road Workhouse Islington RG12 150 folios 63-80
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:Islington_Registration_District,_1891_Census_Street_Index_U-Z
In 1904 guidance was issued by the Registrar General for registering births that occurred in workhouses. In an attempt to remove any stigma associated with such births, only the address was be included with the name of the institution omitted. In 1919 similar guidance was given for deaths and the practice of putting a letter W in the margin of the entry was also discouraged (indicating workhouse).
'The Development of the London Hospital System' details the development of the workhouse infirmaries from the C19th through to the C20th.
http://www.nhshistory.net/poor_law_infirmaries.htm
Regards
Valda
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The building was still there in the 1950s and early 1960s. They painted it up and called it "The aged pilgrims home!" Many of the poor old guys in there then still remembered when it was the Workhouse.
It sat in its own grounds on the north side of St Johns Road and went up the hill a bit, lots of Victorian corridors where the wind still blew down. I do hope they pulled it down and built something a bit more civilized.
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Hi All,
Apologies for butting in, but I'm trying to find 14 St Johns Road Islington (in 1879) - "Islington East" sub-district.
It sounds from all these posts as though you might know where it is...?
The nearest spot I could find was in South Tottenham, just off the A503 but its miles from Islington, though number 14 does look like a very old spot!
Have I found the right St Johns road, or was the real one totalled in the Blitz?
Ted
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Hi
It is still there but called St John Street.
Regards
Valda
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Many thanks Valda,
Looking at the map of the registration area for Islington East at the time, it would appear that area is way to the North of St John Street, in what is now Highbury and Finsbury Park.
14 St John Street is virtually in Smithfield market! Sadly number 14 is now a modern single storey Italian restaurant unlike its grand old town house neighbours.
How could birth here be registered as Islington East? (Has there been a change in compass since 1879) :D
Ted
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Hi
Next attempt. This is St John's Road on the 1871 census
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:Islington_Registration_District,_1871_Census_Street_Index_S-T
It says next to Hollway Road which is a biggish road so not particularly helpful. Have a look at the census piece number and see if you can find adjacent streets that may still have their original names or if they don't try
http://www.maps.thehunthouse.com/Streets/1857-1929.htm
for their new names
Regards
Valda
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The Aged Pilgrim's Home as the old Workhouse was called in the 1950s (when I was kid in Hornsey Rise) was on St John's Way.
St John's Way ran from the Archway Junction to Hazelville Hill, where the Queens Head was and the fish and chip shop.
Are you mixing up St John's Way with St John's Street that ran from the Angle down in to Smithfield Meat Market?
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I have a relative that was in the workhouse in the 1921 census, just says "Patient" has anyone been able to decipher how to use The National Archives at all?
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You have attached your post to a very old thread.
There are many people here who use the National Archives on a regular basis. If you would like to say exactly what are you looking for, someone may be able to help.
However, if you are looking for records of inmates of the St John's Road workhouse in Islington in 1921, they are not at the National Archives. They are held at the London Archives. Some may be available on Ancestry.
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Hi Bookbox, thanks for your quick reply, I didn't know when this was first posted as it only seems to have the date not year, but maybe I'm not reading it correctly?
I am looking for the records of the Islington Workhouse re the 1921 census that states my great grandmother, Maria Slatford, was a patient. I am a subscriber to MyHeritage.com but not Ancestry. I found the info on Find My Past, and purchased the census info.
Quote from the census. "Relationship to head Patient; Marital status Widowed; Institution name Guardians' Institution 129 St John's Road Upper Holloway N19"
I do find it very difficult and confusing to actually search for any records on The National Archives web site, so haven't been able to find any records of ancestors on there. I suppose once you can crack the system, it would be easy, but as yet haven't managed that. Do I need to start a new thread to get info on the use of the National Archives web site?
Thanks.
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I didn't know when this was first posted as it only seems to have the date not year, but maybe I'm not reading it correctly?
The year in post headers is the 2-digit number between the month and the time and easily missed. I'm sure you aren't the first to do so :)
In an historical forum like this there is nothing against reawakening a very old thread; but someone may politely caution you not to expect previous posters to still be around.
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Hi Chris, thanks for your quick reply and explanation.
I have looked at the thread dates and can now see; Tuesday 11 October 11 15:34 BST (UK) which I assume means Tuesday 11 October 2011? the time was a little close to the date and made it a bit confusing.
Thanks again.
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I am looking for the records of the Islington Workhouse re the 1921 census that states my great grandmother, Maria Slatford, was a patient.
As explained above, the workhouse records are not held at the National Archives. They are held at the London Archives (formerly London Metropolitan Archives) - this is a different repository from the National Archives.
The admission/discharge registers for the Islington workhouse are on Ancestry. Maria Slatford, aged 68, was admitted to the workhouse on 4 May 1920 and sent to the Infirmary. There is no further information on her in this record.
She may have been admitted simply because of illness or disability rather than for homelessness or destitution. London workhouses and their infirmaries served as local hospitals for those who could not afford private medical care.
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Hi Bookbox.
Well thanks for the new info. Maria died in Feb 1926 but don't know if she was there all that time?
I to think it was due to illness as she still had children to help support her. I'll have to ask one of my friends to search Ancestry for more info then, or maybe even FindMyPast might have some as well?
I live in Australia so no hope of visiting, only online stuff, and this site is so helpful, used it over many years with different threads.
Thanks.
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The religious creed register is also on ancestry.
Maria Slatford, born 1852, admitted 4 May (1920) from H.H.I (Highgate Hill Infirmary),
creed Church of England, discharged OR (own request) 27.7.21
The A+D register with her discharge on the 27 July 1921 is there (she is transcribed by ancestry as Maud Stafford)
They have Boards Orders with Maria indexed (I think, from memory) on folio 167, but the microfilm runs out before the register does, and I'm not sure if ancestry have the rest of it up.
Once upon a time we could have seen it at home on FamilySearch, but they have now removed London records
St. John's Road Workhouse weekly admissions and orders of the board, March 1920 (from folio #115)-February 1921.
Ditto Highgate Hill Infirmary (though there are some records on ancestry, they may not go far enough?)
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Wow!
Creed Register attached.
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Hi jonwarrn.
Well what can I say but thanks a million for the 2 post replies about my ancestor. Amazing what info there is out there, just need the leads to find it eh? It's a shame it doesn't have the illness as well, but we can't have everything now can we? Regards the "discharge" info as stated on the Creed says "Dis Or" The column header states "Discharged or Dead" so why do you say "own request"? Is that what it really means? Just asking for clarification, hope you don't mind...
Once again many thanks for searching on my behalf, and I'll see what MyHeritage.com has to offer as I am a member of that site. If you happen to find any more info I'll be very grateful as well.
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Hi
I am pretty sure that's what OR means, or usually means, I think sometimes it is written out in full.
Ah! Bookbox is the authority on all this, and I hope they won't me quoting a post from an old thread here
It was absolutely standard practice for people to be transferred between institutions (schools, workhouses, infirmaries) within the same poor law union, as was appropriate for the pauper or convenient for the authorities.
OR = (Discharged at) Own Request.
I'm not sure if there will be anything about the illness in the Highgate records, but if ancestry have some earlier ones that are available it might be worth having a look see.
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Hi back and thanks for the detailed info, I now understand a lot more about all this than I did before, so between you and Bookbox I send my sincere thanks.
As they say, "the search goes on"