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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: benlewis1127 on Friday 13 May 11 11:04 BST (UK)
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Hello!
Ive decided after a few years of umming and arring to try out ancestry.co.uk and see how well i can piece together my family history. I didn't realise it would be as hard as it is but luckily come across this site and slowly reading through the guides available to better myself.
In the meantime could someone please help me find more information on my Fathers dad? Me and my father have got the basics but are hoping to get any more information on him, his details as follows:
Robert Anthony Lewis,
Birth 2 Apr 1921
Death Oct-Nov-Dec 1973 aged 52
Married Joyce Emily Lewis Birth 26 Jun 1927
Death Jul 1996 in Bexley, Kent, England
Many thanks in advance ! :)
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Is he the ROBERT A LEWIS June Q 1921 - CLEOBURY District? June Q would match an April Birth ..
or possibly if he was registered late, this chap (closer to where he married Joyce ? )
Births Sept Q of 1921
Lewis, Robert A. MMN = Hughes Hackney District 1b 815
and Joyce's Maiden name MOSS?
I suspect you are going to have to get at least his Birth Certificate to progress things - did you see that on the Cleobury Birth I mention, that his mother's Maiden name was also Lewis ?
Added: Put this possible marriage of Robert A. Lewis' parents on the back burner until you get verification of his parent from his Birth Cert... Hackney District again, so a good chance ..
Marriages Dec 1919
Hughes Violet S. to Lewis Hackney 1b 1140
Lewis, Robert to Hughes Hackney 1b 1140
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Hello :)!
Sorry i should of added more information, he is:
Name: Robert Anthony Lewis
Birth Date: 2 Apr 1921
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1973
Age at Death: 52
Registration district: Greenwich
Registration County: Greater London
Volume: 5b
Page: 1320
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The first step will be to get his birth cert - you will then have detials of his father and mother, including her maiden name, and can look for their marriage.
Having said that, her maiden name will be in the index - so if it is unusual you may find a possible marriage anyway - but safer to get his birth cert.
Is it the one Mort found?
Certs can be ordered online from www.gro.gov.uk using the reference from the GRO index.
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Its the Birth info (Regn) that needs confirmation - see the extra info added to my 1st post. :)
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Hi
It looks like Robert may have been illegitimate as the mother's maiden name was the same as his surname in the index. No marriage from Lewis to another Lewis appear in the district.
Do you need any help with Joyce?
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sorry as i said i am terrible at this, i have details on his mother
Jemima Lewis
Your great grandmother
Birth abt 1885 in Lubberland, Shropshire, England
Death Jul-Aug-Sep 1953 in London, London, England
and have details of her parents, dont yet have details of the father.
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Hi
It looks like Robert may have been illegitimate as the mother's maiden name was the same as his surname in the index. No marriage from Lewis to another Lewis appear in the district.
Do you need any help with Joyce?
Ah! my dad did say he thought he was illegitimate, any info on Him or Joyce owuld be great :) Thank you.
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That info was in my earlier post - but you still havent confirmed if the CLEOBURY Index entry is correct.
Altho I see you have his mother as JEMIMA, born Shropshire, so I guess Cleobury District is the one - NOT the HACKNEY one?
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That info was in my earlier post - but you still havent confirmed if the CLEOBURY Index entry is correct.
Altho I see you have his mother as JEMIMA, born Shropshire, so I guess Cleobury District is the one - NOT the HACKNEY one?
Sorry i missed that :( If im being honest i have no idea (im not very helpful) Joyce's maiden name was Moss though :)
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Well, given that Jemima Lewis was born in Shropshire, I'd say that was him registered Cleobury.
(The 1891 census has Jemima born in Cleobury Mortimer, Salop - the 1901 has the Lubberland name )
As he married Joyce Moss in Romford, I had wondered if he might be the lad born 1921 Hackney ... altho that was a SEP Q birth, so would mean a very late registration.
Get the Birth Cert and come back with further info shown - altho if his Mother's name was also Lewis, be prepared to find no Fathers name. His Marriage Cert might give more clues, altho if he was illegitimmate, any fathers name shown could be a fabrication - often a relative name was used.
The Marriage Cert should also give ages and Joyce's father's name etc.
Good Luck :)
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I see, thank you so much for your help, youve given me the next stepping stone :)
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Jemima Lewis was born in 1885 and registered in Jun q in Cleobury District.
So I think that confirms Robert's birth there in 1921.
In 1901 (I don't have access but using 1901 census online) she is shown as a 16 yr old, born Lubberland and living in Exeter. Occupation is 'Inmate.'
Hopefully someone with access can find out where she was living but I suggest a workhouse.
As I said I don't have access but this is all I can offer you:
1891 - Cleobury Mortimer
George LEWIS, 39
Emma LEWIS, 14
John LEWIS, 12
Rhoda LEWIS, 10
Thomas LEWIS, 8
Jemima LEWIS, 6
Edwin LEWIS, 3
The mother might be Sarah, 35.
My computer won't let be post posts of a certain size so I have to stop here!
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In 1901 they're in Cleobury Mortimer again.
There's a George LEWIS, 52 and a labourer general which might be him despite the slight age gap.
Sarah LEWIS, 45, born Farlow.
Edwin, a juvenile and Thomas, a general labourer.
I'll try and find Jemima's parents in 1881.
SORRY - I just read above that you already had details of her parents.
Okay, I'll try and help with Joyce now
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Thats great, thank you, i did have abit of information on her being an 'inmate' at 16 but stupidly thought this ment she was in jail, doh ! I have as far back as Jemima's parents but thats the furthest.
How do i find out details of each persons lives? For cause of death i imagine i have to purchase the death certificate, everything else i just have to guess and do alot of searches on each subject?
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Thats great,t hank you, i did have abit of information on her being an 'inmate' at 16 but stupidly thought this ment she was in jail, doh !
Not far off - she was in the Devon and Exeter Reformatory for Girls.
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You were right, benlewis! (Or at least closer than me!)
Sorry for that...
Back to Joyce. There are two Joyce E's born in 1927. One in Sep q in Bethnal Green and one in Dec q in West Ham.
I suggest it's the first one as that fits in with her birthday plus the place is more likely. Do you anything about her parents or siblings?
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sorry as i said i am terrible at this, i have details on his mother
Jemima Lewis
Your great grandmother
Birth abt 1885 in Lubberland, Shropshire, England
Death Jul-Aug-Sep 1953 in London, London, England
and have details of her parents, dont yet have details of the father.
Jemima's details were known it seems, and isnt the thrust of this query to find Robert A. Lewis Father?
With respect, if you are going to transcribe census entries, it needs to show the full RG (or HO107 for the early ones) reference detail, and the info associated with the names - like PoB, Occupation etc.
I did look up the 1901 entry earlier, but didnt post the detail as it might be sensitive as to what sort of 'inmate' she was ... but as you are speculating, she was in the Devon & Exeter Reformatory for Girls', in Polsloe Road ....
I cant locate her in the 1911 census.
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Sorry if I'm getting a bit off topic but are you interested in Joyce's family; I'm not sure what you have.
Her brothers appear to be John H, born 1922 and Leonard D, born 1924 both in Bethnal Green as well.
Their parents were married in 1921 in Bethnal Green: John A MOSS and Violet E MILLER (on Free BMD Violet is not found with John but they do have the same registration).
Violet Elizabeth MILLER, birth registered Dec q 1898 in Bethnal Green.
John Alfred MOSS, birth registered Mar 1900 in Bethnal Green.
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I do apologise, i know im not very clear with my intentions, im interested in all of it if im honest, you guys keep coming up with new information and its fantastic. My dad is very interested in any information about his Dad, Robert Lewis. He has tried before on a family tree and found some bits (but he was doing this without the help of the internet).
I am very interested in what happened to my great grandmother Jemima, so she was in fact in jail? This is very interesting news as we never knew she had been in jail or a workhouse, its completely new to us!
On my nans side (Joyce Lewis maiden name Moss) I have nothing.
I am so very grateful for all of the work you guys are putting in and im taking note of everything that is said so i can compare notes with my dad (he plans to come over next week with a bunch of old photos and documents etc) so any and all information is greatly appreciated!
Again i apologise if ive missed any information out, ive only just started yesterday so im very new and have no idea where to look for anything :)
Oh and sorry for the late reply, it took me a while to realise there was a page 2 to this thread. -.-
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With respect, if you are going to transcribe census entries, it needs to show the full RG (or HO107 for the early ones) reference detail, and the info associated with the names - like PoB, Occupation etc.
Thanks for the advice :) Im using ancestry.co.uk at the moment and having difficulty working out where the references are exactly.
On the census of her being in jail which is found here: (im hoping you can see that)
http://imageservice.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/image.x?f=getimage&dbid=7814&iid=DEVRG13_2041_2042-0196&mac=00634408619766088613oBaTtVAG8fQ=&vx=0&vy=0&vw=2304&vh=1632&zp=75&qf=pq&rc=&sh=0&sw=0
It has occupation only as inmate, i have acensus of her when she was 6 but then nothing up until she dies at 68.
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look in the left hand column, at the top and you will see the Establishment's name (its been posted twice already :P )
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[edit] Answered my own question :D
'Devon and Exeter Female Reformatory School was an institution for the industrial training of juvenile offenders - that is, for girls up to the age of 16 years, who had been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment. They spent a short time in an adult prison, followed by a period of up to 5 years in Devon and Exeter Reformatory, which was a certified Reformatory School. The order for detention was made by the Court, and the maximum limit for a Reformatory School was the age of nineteen.'
So she indeed was a naughty girl. Did you say i can find out what she did by checking the 1901 census?
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sorry, cant help with that.
I suggest you post a query about the place in the Devon Forum - it will get better exposure than here in 'Beginners'.
ah, I see you have editted the original with findings. 8)
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There's no 'Jemima Bailey' in the Old Bailey either
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sorry, cant help with that.
I suggest you post a query about the place in the Devon Forum - it will get better exposure than here in 'Beginners'.
I see okay, thank you. I think i will do abit of my own research first before asking a ton of confusing questions. Thanks again for your help i really appreciate it :) same goes to cv-s, i will add the information you gave me on my nan to my ancestry later and hope it find some 'hints' to further my tree :D
[update]
on this site http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=027-3899f3&cid=-1#-1 which has records of the school it says:
Conditions of access: Records of the Devon and Exeter Reformatory and Refuge for Girls held at Devon Record Office are subject to a 100-year closure from the date of the most recent entry.
so looks like im just in luck :D
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That's good news
Good luck in further research
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Hi Benlewis, I am new here.
I have stumbled across your thread by accident. I am looking for a Mary Delury who appears on the same 1901 Census as your relation. I'll be polite and say she was a guest at the Devon and Exeter reformatory school. She is my Great-Grandmother.
I know all about her from the time she got married to when she died aged just 35, and even tracked down where she is buried but I am struggling to find much as a single woman. I can't even find a birth certificate despite her being born in Barking (according to this census and the 1911).
Just thought I'd ask if you have had any joy finding records for the reformatory because I'm just drawing a blank?
Finally, as another coincidence, Mary spent her adult life in Woolwich (I live in Bexley) so our ancestors followed a similar path.
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Hi Benlewis, I am new here.
I have stumbled across your thread by accident. I am looking for a Mary Delury who appears on the same 1901 Census as your relation. I'll be polite and say she was a guest at the Devon and Exeter reformatory school. She is my Great-Grandmother.
I know all about her from the time she got married to when she died aged just 35, and even tracked down where she is buried but I am struggling to find much as a single woman. I can't even find a birth certificate despite her being born in Barking (according to this census and the 1911).
Just thought I'd ask if you have had any joy finding records for the reformatory because I'm just drawing a blank?
Finally, as another coincidence, Mary spent her adult life in Woolwich (I live in Bexley) so our ancestors followed a similar path.
Hello spud, ive not gotten very far however i got an email from devrec@devon.gov.uk when i enquiried about any records they held on the Devon and Exeter reformatory for Girls heres their reply:-
We hold quite a lot of records of the Devon and Exeter Female Reformatory, but there are only a few items which date from the period that you mention. These are a Punishment Book, 1875-1934 (3899F/Z2/4); a Prescription Book, 1862-1938 and a 'House Visitors' Book' which covers the period between 1891 and 1939.
There's probably not a very high chance of finding much information about your ancestor, but if you want these items checked, the work would have to be carried out by our Research Service, details of which can be found on our website by clicking this link:
http://www.devon.gov.uk/index/councildemocracy/record_office/services_policies/research_service-2.htm
I hope that this information is of some assistance.
Ive not really had much time recently to see if these files are obtainable for a fee etc I think each page is 30p but then again you need to find what pages you exactly need, you can pay for researches from the looks of it? As i said ive not really looked into it. Hope this helps :) Let me know if you find anything!
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That's great, thank you very much.
I will let you know what I find.
Regards