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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: daverblondto on Thursday 12 May 11 17:58 BST (UK)

Title: Willington - Brown
Post by: daverblondto on Thursday 12 May 11 17:58 BST (UK)
I am having great difficulty tracing Sarah Ann Brown born in 1857 (1881 and 1891 census gives her birthdate) who was married to Thomas Laidler and lived in Westoe, Durham. The 1891 census states that she was born in Willington.

I know that she had a sister named Isobel (I have their picture together) but I cannot find any information about their parents. I have found some records listing a Sarah Ann Brown but cannot be sure that they are in reference to my great-grandmother because Isobel is missing from them. From the photo of them as adults, Isobel looks younger. I would like some help in nailing down their family.

--Dave
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: sillgen on Thursday 12 May 11 18:57 BST (UK)
Sarah's marriage to Thomas shows on www.freebmd.org.uk in Gateshead Mar 1875 ref 10a 977.    Her father's name should be on the certificate and witnesses' names may help to establish her family in earlier census too.
Andrea
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 12 May 11 19:06 BST (UK)
There is this from 1871:

Reference RG10, Piece 5010, Folio 38 Page 74
Tatham Street Industrial Schools For Girls, Bishopwearmouth, Sunderland

Brown, Sarah Ann  Pupil  F  14  b Northumberland
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: daverblondto on Thursday 12 May 11 22:54 BST (UK)
Thank you, both. I have ordered the marriage document. I'm sorry to learn about the industrial school. I will have to try to find the admissions record to see why she was sent there.

--Dave
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: Matilda1 on Friday 13 May 11 08:14 BST (UK)
8 Feb 1875 Thomas Laidler, 23, Bachelor, Glasscutter, 60 Park Lane, father William Laidler, Miner married Sarah Ann Brown, 19 Spinster, 10 Park St, father Henry Brown, Mariner
Witnesses George Thomas Lee & Elizabeth Laidler (who made her mark)
Marriages, St James Gateshead

1861 Census RG9/3835 folio 68 page 9
Willington Ecclesiastical district is also Willington
Shield Row
_lley's Houses
Thomas Davidson, HD Married, 40, Grocer & _postmaster born NBL Wallsend
Mary do wife 39? NBL No Shields
Robert do son 12 Grocers Assistant NBL Wallsend
Isabella Brown, Niece, 15, General Servant, NBL Bolton
Sarah do, do, 5, Visitor is crossed out, born do


I think Radcliffe has found the right Sarah in a different 1861 census entry - see below.

Matilda
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: Radcliff on Friday 13 May 11 13:18 BST (UK)
Sarah Ann Brown daughter of Henry, Baptism Tynemouth 26 th of October 1856,

mother Ruth
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: Radcliff on Friday 13 May 11 13:25 BST (UK)
Census,1861 ,Billy Mill Lane,
 Chirton,
RG9/3838

Ruth Brown aged 24 ,married, husband a seaman,born Broadlaw Northumberland,
Sarah aged 4 born Percy Main,
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: daverblondto on Friday 13 May 11 13:43 BST (UK)
Thank you, everyone. I needed conformation about Sarah Ann's family, and you've given me that. I think that her father, Henry, died when she was young and I have a record of Ruth Brown marrying again. That may account for Sarah and her sister Isabel/Isobel/Ann Isabella (whatever) almost disappearing (perhaps to an industrial school) or into service.

--Dave
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: Radcliff on Friday 13 May 11 13:45 BST (UK)
possible marriage , free bmd

Henry Brown and Ruth Gilhespy,Tynemouth ,September 1855,

Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: Radcliff on Friday 13 May 11 13:48 BST (UK)
The records for North Shields workhouse are held in Newcastle,and are available to look at with care,I would think if she was to be admitted to an industrial school it would have been at the guardians recommendation,rather than choice,
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: Radcliff on Friday 13 May 11 14:12 BST (UK)
1851 census ,South Farm cottages Cowpen,
HO107/2412


James Gilhespy,aged 46, born Hallington,
Mary,aged 48, born Watton,husbandsman,
Jacob,aged 25, born Shilvington
Margaret,aged 20, born Callerton
James, aged 13, born Corbridge
Ruth, aged 14, born Great Saw
George,aged 10, born Ponteland
Mary Ann,aged 8, born Heddon on the wall
Sarah,aged 5, born Cramlington
Mary,aged 2, born Heddon on the Wall
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: daverblondto on Friday 13 May 11 20:01 BST (UK)
I had suspected Ruth Gilhespy as being Sarah Ann's mother. Her age, however, would preclude Isabella Brown "niece and servant", from an earlier reply, from being her daughter. Being nine years old is a tad precociously fecund. lol  This gets back at my original question: where is her sister Isabella (or Jane Isabella) Brown? I'll have to keep plugging away.

-Dave
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: Matilda1 on Friday 13 May 11 22:30 BST (UK)
Hi Dave

Where did you get Sarah's sister's name from?  I.e. what are your sources for her existence, apart from the named photo you have?  In your posts you have referred to her as Isobel/Isabella as well as Ann Isabella & Jane Isabella.  Just to help the hunt  :)

Matilda

P.S. You will see above that I think the 1861 census entry I posted was wrong & that Radcliff posted the right one.  Plus I added the witnesses to the marriage that I had inadvertently left off earlier - not a good night last night ::)
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: Radcliff on Saturday 14 May 11 09:49 BST (UK)
Also I would like to add my questions to Matilda's,

You think Henry died ,any idea when ,

and you say Ruth remarried ,where and when ,if you have that information ,please post it here for us to see,

also was Henry married before he marrid Ruth ,did he have a family prior to he and Ruth having Sarah,
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: daverblondto on Saturday 14 May 11 19:16 BST (UK)
I must apologize: I did make an error which I have confirmed by phoning my mother. One name is wrong. I'm bad! Sarah Ann's sister's name is Jane Isobel. I have no idea why I thought it was Ann Isabel.

The only evidence of Sarah Ann Brown's sister is the photo that I have of the two of them as adults. My mother referred to her as Isabel but on the reverse of the photo, written by my grandfather (Sarah Ann's son), it states "mother is seated and aunt Jane Isobel is standing. She migrated 55 years ago [which would make the date of emigration 1902] to Portland, Oregon with her husband and her married name is Gillis [which is crossed out] or Larson." That's all I know of her. My grandfather never mentioned her during his lifetime.

The last census that names Henry, Ruth and their daughter Sarah Ann is 1861. After that, I can't find them again. I had though, like Radcliff, that one of them remarried, or had married earlier [likely Henry since he was 25 when he married Ruth and she 18], and that "aunt" was in fact a half-sister. I don't know if he was married earlier. My family is very tight-lipped about everything. My mother doesn't even know the dates of her parents' marriage: they refused to tell anyone because they didn't want "a fuss".
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: Radcliff on Saturday 14 May 11 22:51 BST (UK)
Reading the little snippet,you posted I would lean towards Jane Isabell being a Gilespie and married to a Larson,
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: daverblondto on Tuesday 17 May 11 13:45 BST (UK)
That is a very tempting theory: he started writing Gilhespy, stopped, crossed it out and wrote Larson. As far as I know, Ruth Gilhespy was one of 8 children (that I have been able to find) and Jane Isobel is not one of them. Of course, I could have the names all wrong. I also thought she could be an aunt on the other side. My great-grandfather had a half-sister, Isabella Mary, but that can't be her either. Eventually she'll turn up. She may also have been a dear friend of my great-grandmother and was referred to as "aunt" out of respect. I just wish that I had never seen that picture. lol  Thanks for spending the time to brain-storm with me.

-Dave

Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: Radcliff on Tuesday 17 May 11 16:03 BST (UK)
Hi Dave I went onto a and looked at the photo, they are so alike and to me there doesn't seem a great age difference, my thoughts were that they were indeed half sisters ,one a Brown one a Gilhespie, I would keep searching ,some thing will turn up ,
Title: Re: Willington - Brown
Post by: Radcliff on Tuesday 17 May 11 23:29 BST (UK)
Ruth Gilhespy remarried Newcastle 1857,

but I don't know who her spouse is ,???????

freebmd

amended this Ruth is the daughter of John