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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Nat40 on Thursday 12 May 11 10:46 BST (UK)
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Hello
My Grandfather enlisted in WW1 under a fake name due to being underage... I know it is a stab in the dark but has anyone got any ideas on how to work out what his name was?????? His real name was Reginald McBeath born in Paddington on the 22nd November 1895.
Any help would be gratefully accepted.
Cheers
Natalie
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I am not seeing this birth in NSW BDM, or variation - McBeth, Macbeth.
There is a marriage in Paddington -
Reginald McBeath / Mary E Palmer 2535/1915.
Does this have anything to do with your Reginald.
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Natalie, my first cousin 3 x removed did the same thing. However, his record on the NAA site comes up when you search under his proper surname. The record is in his assumed name, but a notation has been made with his correct name.
Have you searched using McBeath?
Dee
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His birth is listed as Reggie McBeath and it is a different Reginald who married Palmer thanks ;) I have searched just using McBeath but nothing matching comes up...
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Sounds like there's nothing in his records to indicate he enrolled under an assumed name then......
That makes it very difficult. :-\
Good luck.
Dee :)
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thanks :D
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Forgive me for butting in, but this general subject interests me too.
My great-uncle Claud Denison Stirling Wilkinson (b. late 1878) left his wife in 1913 -- the story was that his fruit-growing business failed, she nagged him about it, and one day he'd had more than he could stand. His descendants maintain that he sailed to Australia where he joined cousin Freddy in the same line of business at Renmark, SA. That they both joined up the following year and were killed at Gallipoli.
I can find Frederick Wilkinson, private in the 10th infantry battalion, AIF, k.i.a. in the ANZAC attack on the Dardanelles 25 Apr. 1915. But no sign of Claud or anyone with the name Denison or Stirling (which he might have used as an alias).
Personally I think it was wishful thinking on the part of the children that their father died a hero's death. But it would be nice to know the truth. Has anyone come across Uncle Claud masquerading under another name, or have any brilliant ideas how I could find him?
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Yes, I am wondering about his war service. Natalie what is this story based on - is there a photo of him in uniform, medals etc?.
Many men enlisted using false information. I have an ancestor who was a foreign national and should not have enlisted at all. Such service was usually honoured by the government for post-war befenits such as war service housing loan, war service pension etc.
Men who joined up and served under fabricated enlistment details were usually keen to have their records corrected in order to establish entitlement to these benefits - and no punitive consequences for the original false information.
Do you know definitley that he served?.
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This may be Reggies' birth registration, under MCBEATH and MACBEATH:
162/1896
MACBEATH
Reggie K
Father James
Mother Lucy
Registered at Sydney
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/familyHistory.htm
Leanne
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yes he served. Apparently he was offered a pension but declined it. There were medals but they were lost many years ago. None of his sons know what name he used only that he did. His early life is fairly enigmatic. Apparently his parents sent him away from them as they couldn't afford to feed all the kids.
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The search facility at our National Archives website where ww1 digitised records are located, allows search under almost any keyword.
You could try the name of his most likely Next of Kin.
Often these men would use the accurate details of an older relative. Experiment with a few of them.
Just to press a point here , apart from the word of the sons, have youanyting at all to confirm the enlistment?
Sue
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If he had a married sister, that would be a good next of kin for him to have chosen, as her married name wouldn't give away his correct surname.
My cousin did something like that.....he used an aunt's name.
Dee :)
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Apparently he was offered a pension but declined it.
I am not sure how you could be offered a pension and decline it. Especially under a false name, address and all that entailed.
It is possible he was eligible for pension and chose not to apply .
Sue
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perhaps.. I was only told this by my father the other day. He said it wasn't worth getting or something. I get what you mean though. If they didn't know his name or where he lived 40 years later how would they offer it. I will have to question him further.
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I've just come across this web page:
www.aif.adfa.edu.au/aliases.html
which lists all the known aliases of those who served in the 1st AIF
(one alphabetic list by false name, one by true name).
You can also search on a person by name or by the place of domicile that he gave on enlisting.
Didn't solve my problem, unfortunately!
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Obviously there are still more names to be added though.....so maybe in the future you'll have better luck.
My cousin isn't listed yet.
Dee :)
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Thanks mate for the link.. neither is mine. :(
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If he was b. 1895/6 he wouldn't have been underage, though. There could have been other reasons for using a different name.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,530887.msg3853789.html
- here is a list of his siblings.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18041183
- here, at the death of Joseph Vincent McBeath, one of the relatives is "Archie Gilbert" - his marriage to Cecilia is listed as Archibald Gilbert to Cecelia A. A. McBeth or Macbeth in 1920,
There's also a son Harold mentioned who was registered under "McBeth/MacBeth"
I cannot find WWI records for any of the boys. Also tried searching under their first names.
Is father James the one who died in 1909?
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I was thinking that too that he wouldn't be underage but if he signed up in 1914 he wouldn't have been 21. Yes their father was James who died in 1909. Thank you for looking into it for me :)
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Enlistment standards - First World War
During the course of the First World War standards for age, minimum height and minimum chest measurement for enlistment in the AIF were altered.
The requirements in August 1914 were 18–35 years, height of 5ft 6in and chest measurement of 34 inches. In June 1915 the age range and minimum height requirements were changed to 18–45 years and 5ft 2in, with the minimum height being lowered again to 5ft in April 1917. During the first year of the war approximately 33 percent of all volunteers were rejected. However, with relaxation of physical standards of age and height, as well as dental and ophthalmic fitness, previously ineligible men were now eligible for enlistment.
On enlistment recruits were examined for BC or D tattooed on their skin. These were British army tattoos. BC stood for bad character and D for deserter.
http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/enlistment/
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One of mine enlisted under a false name but not that he was under age. We found on his death cert his stepmother had given what name he was known as but also the name he used in the welsh pioneers and therefore it was put as otherwise known as and both entries on the death index but both obviously lead to the same man. This enabled me to find his medal index card and under the other name. It ties up to his army number but i can't prove any more definite than that as his records have n't survived and while he was in the army he was on the absent voters list under the name he was known as! My grandad was supposed to be under age but if he was ,it was only a matter of months and he is under his proper name.
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There were obviously many reasons why men enrolled under assumed names.
My cousin Fred was not underage, but had had a big argument with his father, so enlisted under an assumed name so that his father wouldn't know. It was only an accidental meeting with a brother when on leave before he sailed overseas that meant eventually his assumed name was known. Fred was one of the many who did not return. The story is revealed in his records, as there ended up being many letters written by family trying to have his correct name used on his records.
Dee :)
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wonder if he went to ww2 and was too OLD???
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Many persons born in 1895 enlisted in the CMF/Militia or the Volunteer Defence Corps.
Check http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/script/name.asp
Regards
Gerry
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HI Natalie,
As Sparrett suggested, you can search the Archives site using any search term you like. Even his date of birth, or Parramatta or other family members names to find the next of kin that he gave. You should be able to fill in the whole weekend looking for anything likely.
You said that his family sent him away to be raised by someone else, does your Dad have any idea where of by whom? The address of his family at the time, if you knew it, could be used as a seach term.
I think its more useful for you to be looking at these random records as you may recognise a name or place that the rest of us wouldn't.
mum mum
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thanks all... I have spent hours perusing records by towns etc... will have to try and get some more information I think.
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There is a marriage in Paddington -
Reginald McBeath / Mary E Palmer 2535/1915.
"...and it is a different Reginald who married Palmer.."
Do you know something about this listing that causes you to know that this is a different Reginald McBeath?.
Is this possibly an earlier marriage for your Reginald?.
It suspiciously occurs at the start of the war.
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no its not him.. i bought the certificate years ago thinking he may have had a secret past we knew nothing about but no
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Hi,
I know you have the McBeath/Palmer marriage certificate but does the other Reggie McBeath check out? What I mean is, does he exist, did you check his parents and place of birth? Just a long shot that he could have put down his foster parents names or a wrong place of birth on his marriage, perhaps even on his enlistment he didn't put Paddington as his place of birth. If he was raised by someone else he may not have known his real parents names or may have preffered to use his foster parents. So just double check the other Reggie McBeath, his death, electoral roll etc.
mum mum
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Tried to post this ten minutes ago and lost it. I just shot myself down in flames, there is Reginald and Mary Ellen mcBeath living in Victoria from 1942-54 while your Reginald Kengsley is at Coonabarabran in NSW.
mum mum
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thanks Mum Mum for looking into it... just wondering, how long does the Transcribing person you recommended usually take???
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Hi,
There are two family trees on a subscription site for a Reggie/Reginald Kingsley McBeath both have him born in Paddington on 22nd November 1895 and death at Coonabarabran.
Tree 1 has Reggie marrying 10th Dec 1949 at Gunnendah a Olive Lilian Harvey b: 1891at Ballarat D: NSW ?. Reggie death recorded as 16th Aug 1972 at Coonabarabran.
Tree 2 has Reginald marrying 10th Dec 1949 at Gunnendah a Olive Lilian Harvey B: 4th June 1922 at Ulamambri NSW D: 16 Sept 2001 at Coonabarabran NSW. Reginald's death recorded as 16th Aug 1971.
Regards
Gerry
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thanks Gerry, yeah one of them would be mine I would say and the other is wrong.. Olive was definately born in NSW. Thanks for looking for me mate :)
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Got this today which may explain the fake name-
Dear Natalie,
Thank you for your request for information on the First World War service of Reginald Kingsley McBeath.
I have had a look through the Neil C Smith book: What’s in a Name, using all the possible options that you offer: Patman, Schipp, and birth at Paddington.
Unfortunately I have not had any luck, so you may need to continue researching through your own family records.
Minimum enlistment age for the First World War was 18, but with parental permission. Without parental permission the age was 21, so if an 18 year old decided to enlist without his parents’ permission, he may well have changed his name.
Regards,
Research Centre
Australian War Memorial