RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: mcnulty on Wednesday 11 May 11 18:44 BST (UK)
-
Hi,
I know that a Josiah Samuel Thornton Danielsen married a Constance Parkinson in Brighton district in 1900 (FreeBMD). According to 1911 census, he was aged 52 and born in Denmark ( (RG14PN4760 RG78PN204 RD69 SD3 ED10 SN455) .
I am trying to find his roots in Denmark and it would help greatly if I knew where in Denmark he was born - maybe the 1891 census can assist? Can someone try and find him. I have looked in 1881 but without success.
Many thanks,
Ian
-
Hi Ian
1901 under the name Thornton Danielsen he was born Schle(r)(s)wig Holstein (Danish subject) (I think)
RG13 Piece: 869 Folio 100 Page 33
evie
-
Checked out the Hastings 1901 census as well. He would appear to have had Danish parents but to have been born in Germany. You would need a copy of his Brighton M Cert to identify his father and his father's occupation to find out more about his Danish Roots.
FreeBMD gives his children as Cecil Francis T Danielsen & Ronald Gower T Danielsen. Presumably the T was for Thornton. Cecil's birth is registered under Hastings which contradicts the declaration made on the 1911 census index.
An interesting contact would be Noaleen Mullholand on Genes Reunited who lists Cecil & Ronald in her ancestry and also has a Josias (that I have yet to find) who she says was born Brighton 1900. There is a possisibility that she may have inadvertantly used the date of his marriage in the UK. Roy G
-
1891 census as requested:
RG12, 738, 55, 15
The Yews, Upper Deal Road, Deal, Kent
Danielsen, Fanny T Head Widow F 57 Living on Own Means b London, Middlesex
Danielsen, Jos S T Son Single M 33 Living on Own Means b Schleswig Flensburg
+ cook and page
-
Cecil's birth is registered under Hastings which contradicts the declaration made on the 1911 census.
Seems to be the writer of the census form trying to squeeze too much information into a box!
Constance is born Birkenhead, Cheshire.
The boys are born St Leonards, Sussex.
Thornton, Naturalised British Subject 1905.
-
Marriages in UK 1857 (St Martins in the Fields) GRO ref June quarter 1a 548
IGI ref gives actual date as 4 April 1857
Bride = Fanny Thornton Andrews to Groom = Joachim August Danielsen
Three year old Josiah appears without parents is on the 1861 census of the St Martins in the Fields, Chariing Cross district, as Josias Danielsen born Flensbury, Denmark.
(I only have the index so you would need to see the original to know who was caring for him) Roy G
Post script. Thanks Evie, you are right, Fanny is on the 1861, but my index has her as DanielSON R G
-
Hi
1861
Head of household is Samuel Andrews, he is his grandson. Fanny is there as a widow aged 26
evie
-
The mother, Fanny Thornton DanielSON. died in Bath England in 1900 (FreeBMD)
Her son's Naturalisation papers are in the UK National Archives. Reference HO 144/817/138587
Nationality and Naturalisation: Danielsen, Josias Samuel Thornton, from Denmark.
Resident in St.Leonards-on-Sea. Certificate 15962 issued 7 May 1906.
The family status with servants, and birthplace of Josias and his father suggests a connection with a significant Danish family of that name also from FLENSBURG
Internet site http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.ceeurope.germany.schleswig.general/1815/mb.ashx
I abstacted the following from the above site:
1st Generation
PETER DANIELSEN, Mayor and shipowner of Flensburg, married to MARIA DANIELSEN
2nd Generation
PAUL DANIELSEN (1729-1788) Merchant in Flensburg married to LUCIA MAGDALENA HEMP(R)ING (ca.1732-1787) fr. Flensburg
3rd Generation
JOACHIM DANIELSEN (1760-1844) Merchant in Flensburg married 1791, to ELSABE AMALIA JEBSEN (1773-1811) from Husum
4th Generation
JOSIAS JEBSEN DANIELSEN married to CATHARINA MARIA SCHMIDT
one son: AUGUST JOACHIM DANIELSEN (a reversal of the first names of Fanny's husband)
one daughter: ANNA AMALIA DANIELSEN
If there is a connection, it would appear he had relatives that made their way to USA and also had a mention in the following entry about Christian Otto Mohr on the German version of Wikipedia.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Otto_Mohr
Roy G
-
Many thanks for all the info.
I have managed to find some census info here in Denmark (I am a resident here), but unfortunately birth records for Flensburg are not covered by Danish records - Flensburg seemed to have moved between DK and Germany over history.
Still haven't managed to find the Danielsens in 1881 - must have been mistranscripted, missed or whatever.
Cheers,
Ian
-
Good hunting Ian, there appear to be lots of loose ends.
You have August Joachim Danielsen, the son of a prosperous family of merchants (perhaps also ship owners) who died within 3 years of his marriage (1857-1861) It was not in the UK so was it in Denmark or an accident at sea? The 1861 census suggests that his new wife Fanny and son returned to her parents' home in London for a period of mourning.
You do not know where his wife Fanny and son Josia(s or h) were in 1871 & 1881, so cannot say where the son was educated, but their status sugests a private school. As you say, the details may have been mistranscribed so check out the cook's name (on the 1891 census) and the see if she could have also been with them in 1881.
You know mother and son were of independent means and were living at the Yews in Deal in 1891. That property is presently up for sale so you have pictures of it on the Internet. http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-24917824.html
Fanny died in Bath in 1900 and in all probability left a will. Thats well worth applying for through the Probate Office.
You also know Josia(s or h) had 2 children, Cecil and Ronald, so check out Noaleen Mullholland who is on Genes like you are and shares your interest.
A challenging on-going task isnt it? Roy G
-
ALSO, I can now add the Danielsens family address from the 1901 census.
20, Chapel Park Road, Hastings (St. Mary Magdalen district). Roy G
-
Thanks for that.
Can you post the name of the cook from the '91 census so I can possibly trace her and the Danielsens in '81.
Many thanks,
Ian
-
Hi
This is the cook domestic but she is only 20 so may not be working in 1881 in that capacity, at least.
SAVILLE, Edith Servant Single 20 Cook Domestic Ruckland (Richland) (Rickland) Kent
evie
-
One of the other subscribers to Genes (not Noaleen) who has an interest in the Danielsen and the Andrews family has dropped me a line and I am hoping she will join the discussion.
She wrote that Fanny was the daughter of her great, great uncle Samuel Andrews and she believed there was a third son (another Josias Samuel T Danielson) born around the time of the marriage. Having found no evidence of a third son in the UK birth records or censuses, it would be interesting to investigate that further. Roy G
-
Ronald was our uncle, we have many family photos dating back to late 19 century. He gad no children. Cecil's descendants live in canada.
-
Hi there everyone,
I am very new to this, but when I found this post, I couldn't help but reply.
I'm not sure if this is still being tracked, but I'd be interested in picking up the conversation.
I am Cecil Francis Thoronton's grandson, and would be happy to talk about what has happened here in Canada. It would also be fascinating to see what further research has been done.
My thanks.
-
Hi BillyDee
The string was started some 4 years ago, but hopefully " mcnulty " (the person who placed the initial inquiry who we have hopefully helped) will get back to you.
Regards Roy G