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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: nkbauer on Monday 09 May 11 23:30 BST (UK)

Title: Completed. thank you. a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: nkbauer on Monday 09 May 11 23:30 BST (UK)
Hello,
I have searched several times for William and Catherine Allan and their children (9 possibly) in the 1891 census. I found them in Cathcart Renfrewshire in the 1881 census and Catherine and most of the children in the 1901 census in Cathcart Lanarkshire. I can't find a record of William's death but suspect he died after the 1881 census. Where did the others disappear to after his death? Any help much appreciated/
Nan
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: sancti on Tuesday 10 May 11 10:01 BST (UK)
What was the date and location of their births

What was Catherine's maiden name?
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: Rodeo on Tuesday 10 May 11 12:15 BST (UK)
Hi Nan

If the relations you are enquiring about are William Allan (b. 1841, New Monkland, Lanarkshire) and Catherine Clark (b. 1844 in Ballachulish Argyleshire), there is a tree on Ancestry that includes this family. According to the documentation in that tree, William Allan died on 10 July 1914 in Glasgow and Catherine Clark died on 28 November 1916 in Glasgow.

The 1901 census shows Catherine (head, carting contractor), her seven children and grandson, John Marshall, living at 33 Minard Road, Cathcart.

Their daughter, Agnes Allan, emigrated to Canada, arriving in Quebec on the Hesperian on 22 September 1912. She married George Lang Currie on 24 September 1912 in York, Ontario and they had a daughter Catherine Allan Currie (b. 1914 in Galt, Ontario, Canada).

Cheers,

Rodeo

Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: nkbauer on Tuesday 10 May 11 13:40 BST (UK)
Hello,
I am aware of the tree on ancestry but I want to verify for myself any information that I record for the final version of my tree. I took a  relative's information on one family member and later found she had made a mistake. The name of the shared relative was the same, the father's name of that person was the same but the mother's name was different. I've spent hours and money on research that I now can't use. Right now my tree is a disaster as I try to correct my information. The date for William Allan's death in 1914 was found on another tree but I haven't been able to verify it. I hope to do so before tracing that branch of the family any further.
Thank you for your efforts to date.
Regards, nan
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: nkbauer on Tuesday 10 May 11 13:56 BST (UK)
Hello again,
Rodeo has found the right family. I can find them in 1881 in Cathcart Renfrewshire and Catherine Allan nee Clark with several of the children in 1901 in Cathcart Lanarkshire. I can't find them anywhere in 1891. I suspect William Allan died after 1881 but can't find proof. The 1914 date is on a family tree but without verification.
Can anyone help solve this puzzle?
Nan
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 10 May 11 14:07 BST (UK)
Nan, have you thought to check the 1901 census image to see what it says about wife Catherine's marital status (married or widowed)?

The 1912 Ontario marriage for Agnes Allan, simply states father as William Allan, carpenter and Catherine Clark.

Monica
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: nkbauer on Tuesday 10 May 11 14:43 BST (UK)
Hi Monica,
The 1901 UK census on ancestry stated that Catherine was the head of the family. She is also the head of the fmaily in 1911. After 1881 I can find no mention of William Allan b.1841 in Langlaon(Langlone), Old Monkland. I assume he died some time after 1881 but can't find his death except on other family trees where there is no verification. There is no one here left to ask.
I have the actual 1912 marriage certificate of Agnes Allan and her husband  and it doesn't even state the names of the parents or professions. I'm surprised William was listed as a carpenter. He was a carter in 1871 & 1881 and an unskilled labourer before that. William Allan was my ggrandfather.
Regards, Nan
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 10 May 11 15:07 BST (UK)
Hi Nan

The Ancestry Scottish census transcriptions are great aren't they, however, there is one piece of vital info they don't include and that is the marital status for someone (single/married/widowed). This piece of info is only available on the original image on Scotlands People. I just thought it might help you narrow down possible windows of time for William Allan's death if by 1901 wife Catherine already showed as widowed or still married.

Agnes' 1912 Ontario marriage certificate does show her parents' names. I checked it to see whether there was a mention of her father being deceased. There isn't but that is not to say he wasn't and this info was not recorded there.

One other check might be the marriage certs for the children of William and Catherine (Clark) to see what the marriage certs say about their father and whether he shows as alive or deceased when his children got married.

For example, did Margaret Allan marry Robert Marshall? From 1901:

Robert Marshall 28
Margaret Marshall 29 b. Glasgow
Catherine Marshall 5
Mary Marshall 3
Margaret Marshall 5 Months
Mary Allan 25 b. Cathcart

Address: Callendar Riggs, Falkirk

Margaret's marriage looks to likely have been just after 1891 going by the ages of her children. Hopefully her marriage entry might give you further clues.


Monica
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 10 May 11 15:13 BST (UK)
Just a thought...

As Rodeo mentioned, there is the date of 10 July 1914 for William Allan's death. Looking through some of the trees on line, I think daughter Janet Allan married John Cameron on 10 July 1914....I wonder if father showed as deceased on her marriage entry and this is why the date of 10 July 1914 has crept in to people's research?

Monica
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: sancti on Tuesday 10 May 11 15:20 BST (UK)
Strange record on Ancestry for 1891 and don't know if the childrens names fit

William Allan 48 Head born Cambelltown Argyllshire Occupation: Cartiny Contractor
Elizabeth Allan 42  born: Bogside, Ayrshire  ???
John Allan 17 born: Crossingloof, Renfrewshire occ carter
James Allan 12  born: Crossingloof, Renfrewshire
Janet Allan 10  born: Crossingloof, Renfrewshire
Agnes Allan 7  born: Crossingloof, Renfrewshire
William Allan 5  born: Crossingloof, Renfrewshire
Alexander Allan 2  born: Crossingloof, Renfrewshire
Elizabeth Gold 25
Hugh Gold 23

Address: Woodside Place Cathcart
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 10 May 11 15:47 BST (UK)
It's sort of close isn't Sancti...but this family show in 1881 still at Woodside Place, whilst the other Allan family were at Mosside Brickwork.
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: sancti on Tuesday 10 May 11 15:52 BST (UK)
Ah well! Back to the drawing board  ;D
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 10 May 11 15:57 BST (UK)
I think this 1891 entry might be one that you have to search for on SP and look to the original entry as it may fall into one of the "disappeared" from the transcript!

Monica
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: nkbauer on Tuesday 10 May 11 19:33 BST (UK)
A big thank you to Rodeo, Sancti and MonicaL for their help and suggestions. I will look on SP for the 1891 censes to see if it's there and also check the 1901 census to see whether Catherine was married or widowed at that time. I know that the daughter Margaret was married in 1894 so if I look up her marriage I should be able to further narrow the time of William's death. I went through 30 credits on SP just 3 days ago so I'll have to wait until next month to pursue these facts further. If only I had been born rich or had won the lottery!!!LOL
Regards, Nan
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 10 May 11 19:35 BST (UK)
You and me and most of the Scottish research RootsChatters  ;D

Let us know how you get on, Nan  :)

Monica

Added: Bear in mind in your searches that last born daughter from the 1901 census that Rodeo found was Janet born 1887-8 so likely death for William anytime from this date....
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: Rodeo on Wednesday 11 May 11 11:38 BST (UK)
Hi Nan

I had a squizz at the 1894 registration of marriage for Margaret Allan and Robert Marshall. Her parents are cited as William Allan, farmer, and Catherine Allan (maiden surname Clark). Thus, William is not deceased in 1894.

If you send me a PM with your email address, I'd be most happy to forward a copy of this registration to you.

Cheers,

Rodeo
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: MonicaL on Wednesday 11 May 11 11:42 BST (UK)
Farmer, carter and possibly carpenter...William Allan's occupations seem a real mix  :-\

Monica
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: Thameslass on Tuesday 15 November 16 01:07 GMT (UK)
Strange record on Ancestry for 1891 and don't know if the childrens names fit

William Allan 48 Head born Cambelltown Argyllshire Occupation: Cartiny Contractor
Elizabeth Allan 42  born: Bogside, Ayrshire  ???
John Allan 17 born: Crossingloof, Renfrewshire occ carter
James Allan 12  born: Crossingloof, Renfrewshire
Janet Allan 10  born: Crossingloof, Renfrewshire
Agnes Allan 7  born: Crossingloof, Renfrewshire
William Allan 5  born: Crossingloof, Renfrewshire
Alexander Allan 2  born: Crossingloof, Renfrewshire
Elizabeth Gold 25
Hugh Gold 23

Address: Woodside Place Cathcart

The placename is actually 'Crossmyloof' - the transcribers on Ancestry have got it wrong.

See: http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/lifestyle/13263103.Crossmyloof___what_s_in_a_name_/
http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/search/partner/crossmyloof
Title: Re: a 1891 census lookup please
Post by: Forfarian on Tuesday 15 November 16 21:39 GMT (UK)
The placename is actually 'Crossmyloof' - the transcribers on Ancestry have got it wrong.
Well, well, there's a surprise then. Not.