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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: WPR on Sunday 08 May 11 22:09 BST (UK)
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My Great Great Grandfather was Robert Rayner from Dewsbury, who married Betty Hemingway on 13 Oct. 1843. His father was named Robert Rayner. Betty's parents were Joshua and grace Hemingway. That's the only information we've been able to track down from Parish Registers. Does anyone have any information on Robert, birth dates and so on and his ancestors.
W. P. Rayner
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Hi and welcome to RootsChat
Are you certain betty's mother was named Grace??
From census it seems her name was "Peace"????
and daughter Mary married a Daniel Raynor
???
Suz
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1841
Dewsbury Yorks
Joshua Hemingway 35 Sawyer J
Peace 35
Sarah 15
Betty 15
Mary 10
Peace 7
Titus 5
Joshua 3
Stenton 1
all b in county
HO107 1268 5 16 25
1851 Rectory Lane Dewsbury Yorks
Joshua Hemingway Head M 47 Wood sawyer
Peace wife 48
Joseph son 25 Coal Miner
Hannah daughter 22 Power Loom Weaver
Titus son 15 coal miner
Joshua son 13 coal miner
Stenton son 11
Bethel son 8
Harriett dauhgter 5
all b Dewsbury
(there is a widow Sophie hemingway and her children living next door)
Ho107 2324 288 9
1861
Thornhill Rd Thornhill Yks
Joshua Hemingway head M 57 Cloth Weaver
Peace wife 58
Stenton son U 20 coal Miner
iett daughter 16 Woolen Weaver
Daniel Raynor son in law M 34 Sawyer Ossett Yks
Mary Rayner daughter M 31
Charlotte Rayner granddaughter 9 scholar
Joseph Raynor grandson 3
Frederick Rayner grandson 8
all except Daniel Rayner b. Dewsbury
RG9 3416 40 6
IGI has this marriage -although it is submitted)
Marriage
Joshua Hemingway
Peace Stainthrop
25 Dec 1821
Birstall Yks
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Baptism
Betty hemingway
9 May 1824
Dewsbury Yks
Parents Joshua Hemingway/ Peace
there is also a baptism
betty hemingway
25 July 1834
Dewsbury Yks
born 3 July 1832
Parents Robert Hemingway/Sophia -wonder if this is the child of the Widow Sophia Hemingway who lived next door to Joshua and peace in 1851??
Suz
Suz
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Thank you Suzard, that is very helpful. I have a copy of the Marriage certificate for Robert Rayner and Betty Hemingway dated Oct. 13, 1843. They were both listed as residing in Dewsbury at the time. Joshua Hemingway is listed as Betty's father and Robert Rayner as Robert's father. Joshua is listed as a Clothier and Robert as a Dyer. Betty's mother is not listed, so she may very well have been Peace and not Grace. I'm working from my elderly father's notes that he put together about 25 years ago, so he may have made a mistake in writing Grace. Joshua and Peace had a daughter named Betty who according to the 1841 census was 15 at the time. Her marriage certificate lists her as a spinster in 1843 which seems somewhat ungracious.
I have no record at all of a Daniel Rayner. I have a copy of the birth record of William Wilson Rayner (my Great Grandfather), dated 27 January, 1850 to Robert and Betty Rayner. Robert is listed there as a carpet weaver living in Heckmondurke. I wonder if Mary Hemingway married into another family of Rayners as it was apparently a common name in the area.
What I would like to find out is more information about Robert (married to Betty) and his parents, Robert and I have no record of his mother's name.
Thanks again for the information. You've been most helpful.
W P Rayner
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Baptism
Betty hemingway
9 May 1824
Dewsbury Yks
Parents Joshua Hemingway/ Peace
Suz
Suz:
I think we can assume that this Betty Hemingway is my Great Great Grandmother. Joshua and Peace would be my Great Great Great Grandparents. The second Betty would be a separate branch of the Hemingway family.
Paul
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I wonder if this is "your" Robert??
1841
Liversedge Birstall Yks
(Dewsbury reg district)
Robert Rayner 45 carpet weaver
Martha 40
Robert 20 carpet weaver
Martha 20
Mary 15
Samuel 6
Sarah 1
all b Yks
Ho107 1291 7 22 3
1851 Robert (junior) is not with the family)
Robert Town
Liversedge Birstill Yks
Robert rayner Head M 60 carpet Weaver Dewsbury Yks
Martha wife 51 Heckmondike Yks
Martha daughter U 30 Worsted power loom weaver Liversedge Yks
Samuel son 16 carpet weaver Dewsbury Yks
Sarah granddaughter 11 scholar Manchester Lancs
Alice granddaughter 5 Liversedge Yks
Charles grndson 5 Liversedge Yks
HO 107 2323 659 40
Cannot find Robert with wife Betty
Daniel Rayner married Mary hemingway in 1850 -they are not to be found in 1851 either???
Suz
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.Her marriage certificate lists her as a spinster in 1843 which seems somewhat ungracious.
W P Rayner
Spinster is the normal description of a previously unmarried female on a marriage cert - just as it is bachelor for a male
Suz
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By the way, I don't know if you are aware 1841 census ages of adults 15yrs plus are rounded down to the nearest 5 years
So Betty (in 1841) could be between ages 15-19
Suz
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Hi Suz 1851 Ref is HO107/2324/289/10
Keyboard86
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Hi keyboard 86 - which 1851 census have you given ref for??
Robert?
I have him in 1861 -it seems Betty is using the name Elizabeth)
Albion St Dewsbury
Robert Rayner head M 42 Woollen weaver (cloth) Mill Bridge Yks
Elizabeth wife 36 Dewsbury
Joseph son 14 coal miner Dewsbury
William W son 11 Coal miner Heckmondwike Yks
Sarah dauhgter 8 Dewsbury
Ann daughter 6 Millbank Yks
Elizabeth daughter 4 Millbank
Jane daughter 1 Dewsbury
RG9 3412 93 29
Suz
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I wonder if this is "your" Robert??
1841
Liversedge Birstall Yks
(Dewsbury reg district)
Robert Rayner 45 carpet weaver
Martha 40
Robert 20 carpet weaver
Martha 20
Mary 15
Samuel 6
Sarah 1
all b Yks
Ho107 1291 7 22 3
Suz
That's them. William Wilson Rayner's birth record lists the sub-district as Liversedge & Heckmondurke. So this would be Robert Jr. & Sr. plus my Great Great Great Grandmother Martha. This is wonderful...
I wasn't aware of the rounding down of the ages which explains some of the mathematical discrepancies in the census.
It is also entirely believable that Betty could have been using the more formal name of Elizabeth in 1861.
Paul
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Hi keyboard 86 - which 1851 census have you given ref for??
Robert?
I have him in 1861 -it seems Betty is using the name Elizabeth)
Albion St Dewsbury
Robert Rayner head M 42 Woollen weaver (cloth) Mill Bridge Yks
Elizabeth wife 36 Dewsbury
Joseph son 14 coal miner Dewsbury
William W son 11 Coal miner Heckmondwike Yks
Sarah dauhgter 8 Dewsbury
Ann daughter 6 Millbank Yks
Elizabeth daughter 4 Millbank
Jane daughter 1 Dewsbury
RG9 3412 93 29
Suz
Hi Suz, Both Robert and Daniel are on it
Keyboard86
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well done Keyboard - do yu want to post details while I do baptisms ??
Suz
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Igi extracted records have the following baptisms -which look like the family I found in 1841/51 and "your" Robert's family
Baptisms
some spelled as "Raynor" -some "reynor"
all took place in Birstill Yorks
all to parents Robert and Martha
Robert 1 Feb 1818
Martha 24 Dec 1820
Mary 13 Feb 1825
Ruth 25 July 1830
Ann 22 Sept 1822
Jane 24 Sept 1815
Thomas Wilson 30 Jan 1820
Walter 11 Apr 1824
Samuel 31 Aug 1834
Suz
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1851 Census
Robert Rayner 32 occ Carpet Weaver b Birstall
Betty 26
Joseph 4
William 1 b Birstall
Daniel 24 Lodger/Married occ Mahogany Cutter
Mary 19 Lodger Married occ Power Loom Weaver
Rhoda Stenton 21 Lodger Single occ Whipper & Storrer? Blanket
All other than shown b Dewsbury
Residing at Boothroyd Lane, Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Keyboard86
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very well found keyboard
Wonder if this is Robert (senior)'s baptism
IGI extracted
Robert Rayner 5 Dec 1790
Dewsbury Yks
father Thomas
and his siblings??
Susanna Raynor
25 Jun 1785
Dewsbury
father Thomas Raynor
Thomas Raynor
26 dec 1787
Dewsbury
father Thomas Reynor
Suz
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I wonder if this is "your" Robert??
1841
Liversedge Birstall Yks
(Dewsbury reg district)
Robert Rayner 45 carpet weaver
Martha 40
Robert 20 carpet weaver
Martha 20
Mary 15
Samuel 6
Sarah 1
all b Yks
Ho107 1291 7 22 3
Suz
That's them. William Wilson Rayner's birth record lists the sub-district as Liversedge & Heckmondurke. So this would be Robert Jr. & Sr. plus my Great Great Great Grandmother Martha. This is wonderful...
I wasn't aware of the rounding down of the ages which explains some of the mathematical discrepancies in the census.
It is also entirely believable that Betty could have been using the more formal name of Elizabeth in 1861.
Paul
1841 census also does not list relationships and only gives "yes" or "No" as to whether they were born in the county they were living in - unless they were born Scotland =S, or Ireland =I or Foreign parts =F
By the way -it is Heckmondwike -not Heckmondurke
Suz
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By the way -it is Heckmondwike -not Heckmondurke
Suz
That's better. I thought Heckmondurke seemed a little odd, but I was having trouble reading the handwriting on the Birth Registry.
Paul
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1851 Census
Robert Rayner 32 occ Carpet Weaver b Birstall
Betty 26
Joseph 4
William 1 b Birstall
Daniel 24 Lodger/Married occ Mahogany Cutter
Mary 19 Lodger Married occ Power Loom Weaver
Rhoda Stenton 21 Lodger Single occ Whipper & Storrer? Blanket
All other than shown b Dewsbury
Residing at Boothroyd Lane, Dewsbury, Yorkshire
Keyboard86
That's interesting. It appears that Daniel and Mary Rayner lodged with Robert and Betty on Boothroyd Lane. The William referred to is my Great Grandfather William Wilson, born in 1850. I wonder if Daniel was a cousin...
Paul
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Possible death reg for Robert (snr)
Death reg FreeBMD
Robert Rayner
Mar qtr 1863
Dewsbury
9b 376
Martha in 1871
87 Gomersal Lane Liversedge Yks
martha Rayner head widow 74 Housekeeper Heckmondwike
Samuel son married 36 Carpet Weaver Dewsbury
RG10 4594 4 2
Poss death reg for martha FreeBMD
Martha Reynor
Jun qtr 1875
age 78
Dewsbury
9b 380
Suz
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1851 Census
That's interesting. It appears that Daniel and Mary Rayner lodged with Robert and Betty on Boothroyd Lane. The William referred to is my Great Grandfather William Wilson, born in 1850. I wonder if Daniel was a nephew...
Paul
I wondered if they were related - maybe cousins/ nephew
Suz
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very well found keyboard
Wonder if this is Robert (senior)'s baptism
IGI extracted
Robert Rayner 5 Dec 1790
Dewsbury Yks
father Thomas
and his siblings??
Susanna Raynor
25 Jun 1785
Dewsbury
father Thomas Raynor
Thomas Raynor
26 dec 1787
Dewsbury
father Thomas Reynor
Suz
It's entirely possible Suz... the age would seem to fit as the 1841 census shows him to be between 45 and 50.
This is wonderful information. My father (92) is going to be thrilled. He was never able to track down this material.
Paul
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I can't find daniel in 1841 - or a baptism. Would be good to find a link.
I'm signing off now - but if you want info on any of Roberts siblings -or anything else - please ask - I will be back on tomorrow and there are lots of very friendly and helpful RootsChatters more than willing to help
Warm wishes to your father - I expect he will be thrilled to add to his research and find his "roots"
regards
Suz
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Thank you very much Suz. You have been most helpful. My father is going to be thrilled...
Regards
W Paul Rayner
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Hi saw the need for a Daniel look up in 1841, going on the age at 1851 for him, this is a possiblity:-
1841 Census
Thomas Rayner 50 occ Millwright
Elizabeth 55
John 30 occ Millwright
Charlotte occ Millwright
Abraham 20 occ Cotton Piercer
Joseph 15 occ Millwright Apprentice
DANIEL 15 occ Cotton Piercer
Ellen 7
All are shown as NOT born in County
Residing at Spring Bank, Stockport, Dukinfield, Cheshire.
Census Ref HO107/110/ 14/11 / 16
Keyboard86
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Well found again keyboard
I wonder if this is Thomas (father of Daniel) in 1851
1851
Mossley
Ashton Under Lyne
lancs
George Rayner head M 37 cotton spinner Yorkshre
Elizabeth wife 42 Yorkshire
Martha Ann daughter 16 Piecer Saddleworth
Sarah daughter 14 Piecer Saddleworth
James son 12 Piecer Staly Cheshire
Ellen daughter 5 Mossly Lancs
Joseph son 4
THOMAS father widower 63 Dewsbury Yorks
HO107 2238 285 28
Have previously posted baptism for Thomas son of Thomas in Dewsbury 26 Dec 1787
so Thomas could be brother of Robert snr - so Robert jnr and Daniel would be cousins
???
Suz
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Have previously posted baptism for Thomas son of Thomas in Dewsbury 26 Dec 1787
so Thomas could be brother of Robert snr - so Robert jnr and Daniel would be cousins
???
Suz
That would certainly be plausible Suz. I'm hoping we'll be able to confirm that Thomas (the elder) was indeed Robert's (the elder) father as the baptism records seem to suggest. I find it interesting that both Robert (the younger) and Daniel married Hemingway sisters, Betty and Mary respectively and that Robert and Betty had Daniel and Mary as lodgers in the 1851 census. It's no wonder this gets so confusing at times.
By the way, my father was absolutely delighted to learn of this new information. He had been working on the family history since the early 1960s. Coincidentally, he was stationed in Yorkshire during WWII and knew that the two branches of the family came from there but had no idea he was so close to some of the ancestral haunts. His mother's family (the Collisons and Pearsons) came from Lastingham and tracing them is my next assignment.
W. Paul Rayner
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I've found some additional information on Robert (the elder) and Martha. According to the Birstall Marriage abstracts, Robert Rayner married Martha Wilson on 18 March 1811. If Robert was indeed baptized in 1790, this would make him 21 years of age at time of his marriage.
This also explains the name of their grandson, William Wilson Rayner. We've long wondered where the Wilson name came from, so it would appear that he was named for his paternal Grandmother's family.
I've also found out that Peace Hemingway, William Wilson's maternal Grandmother, is buried in the churchyard at St. Michael & All Angels in Thornhill, Dewsbury. His aunt, Mary Rayner (wife of Daniel) is also buried there. Peace died 15 December 1867 at age 62. Mary died 3 September 1870 at age 40.
Paul
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Great - you are filling in the blanks
Well done - I bet dad is so pleased you are carrying on what he began
Suz
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Yes, slowly but surely. Now I'm turning my attention to Robert (the elder's) possible father, Thomas. I'd like to find a birth registry for Robert (the elder) in addition to the Baptism record you found. If Thomas was indeed his father, then any additional reference to him would be great.
I have located several marriage references in the Birstall abstracts for various Thomas Rayners, but none of those seem to match up chronologically. They appear to be either too early or too late if we work backward from Robert's baptism date. I haven't yet found any in Dewsbury abstracts. I'll just continue digging...
Regards,
Paul
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Hi All,
Are you interested in exploring your Rayner lineage using Y-DNA? If so then please consider joining the Rainer (and surname variants) Project at: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/rainer. Note that you need to be a male Rayner to take a FamilyTreeDNA Y-DNA test. If you are not a male Rayner this does not prevent you from participating in the project but you will need to recruit a male Rayner, e.g. brother, father, uncle or cousin, to take a Y-DNA test for you.
Best Regards,
Gavin Rayner
Group Administrator: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/rainer
P.S. I descend from the Thomas Rayner bp. 1787 mentioned earlier in this thread.