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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: MariaB on Sunday 08 May 11 15:23 BST (UK)
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Hi, I found this quote in a book, published 1847, and would like to know how this should / could be interpreted.
The author speaks of himself, he was born end of 1816.
" .....from the time we were in our eighteenth till we attained our twenty-first year"
The author was born in 4th quarter 1816.
Is he referring to the time from his 17th to 20th birthday or 18th to 21st birthday?
In the mid 1800s what would the expression "to attain" a certain year mean?
Maria
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To attain the age of twenty one years means to reach the age of twenty one.
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Hi Marion
I am not an expert in old speak but I would think he means 18th year to the 21st year. You became an adult at 21. There were many working who were in apprenterships and you were 21 before you finished that in many occupations.
To attain a year would have been joy for some bearing in mind most children died before they were 5 of diseases in those days.
You also could get married at 21 without asking your parents permission.
This kind of thing continued even into the 20th centuary. I remember going to to the Library in 1966 and trying to join the local one. I was asked after my parents and I was bemused to know what they were talking about. I said I am 20 why do you want to know about my parents and they said you need them to sign your paper to confirm your age. I went home and cried and did not join the library. What made that worse was I lived next to a girl who married at 16 and had 4 children by the time she was 20 and she would have had to get someone else to sign the paper. Ridiculous. Sorry for the rant hope the information is correct for you
regards
Sandymc ;D
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One thing to watch with ages, is the tendency in earlier times to say someone was 25 when we would say they were in their 25th year, i. e. still 24.
Graham.
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Thanks for your replies, but I think the jury is still out :-(
Often you see age given in death notices as 70 or 54 or whatever years old, and I assume that this would refer to their actual age before their next birthday after their death.
But often you find "in their hundredth [or eighty-fifth or whatever] year" and I don't know if this person had already celebrated his 100th birthday or not.
Chinese celebrate the day of the birth of a child as their first birthday; we only celebrate our 1st birthday when the first year has passed. After the first birthday a child is in its second year, right?
So I still don't know if "to attain my 21st year" is the same as having one's 21st birthday.
In my research it is pretty vital because the author got married on 1st February 1838, and it would be great to know how long he knew his bride before he married. If he was still hundreds of miles away at his 21st birthday in 1837 and did not know his future bride, it looks like it was a shotgun wedding sort of affair :-)
Maria
PS. Sandymc, I can relate to your story, same humiliation happened to me
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Attained their 21st year in the context you refer to means became 21, ie had lived for 21 years. The point, in your context, of saying this is that they had reached the age when they could marry without permission. Perhaps they also had access to income which they could not receive till they were 21.
Graham.
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Just had a brainwave about this or some kind of wave.
The Gregorian calendar didnt start until 1837 so maybe the funny references given in 1847 were the people still getting used to the new calendar. Seemingly before then the year started on 25th March - no wonder we are all crazy lol ;D
regards Sandymc
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\very interesting thoughts, Sandymc and Graham.
Must look into it and see what effects the introduction of the Gregorian calendar had in the church records in general.
The author's reference to his age was not made with regards to his coming of age and being allowed to marry without consent though, just to let his readers know that he was Captain of a Sports club for three years.... to justify his authority as a sports 'journalist'.
Maria
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The Gregorian calendar was introduced in this country in September 1752, so would not really apply to these people.
Graham.
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Have I read it wrongly Graham. It deffo says 1837 when i did my search engine. Is it a certain form of the calendar then???
Sorry for misinformation that I found I will seek them out and
wrap their knuckles lol ;D
regards Sandymc
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I sometimes have interprited an age or month of birth or week in the month of birth for an ancestor.
In the 1900 US census my ggggrandad says he was born december 1827. He was baptised 23 December 1827. Some of his siblings were baptised in a nearby church which unlike for my ancestor gave the date of birth and they all seemed to be baptised at 3 weeks old. So my ancestor was probably born in the first week or first few days of December 1827.
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"But often you find "in their hundredth [or eighty-fifth or whatever] year" and I don't know if this person had already celebrated his 100th birthday or not. "
Attained their hundredth year -- already had their 100th birthday
In their hundredth year -- would be 100 next birthday
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I think I go with you, Marmalady.
The way you expressed it sounds clear and logical.
So when he writes
" .....from the time we were in our eighteenth till we attained our twenty-first year"
he started [as team captain] when he was seventeen, before his 18th birthday until he turned twenty-one, right?
Question is, was he so sure or honest about the time frame himself? :-)
I guess this we will never know.
Thank you all very much for your helpful suggestions.
Maria