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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: malcy63 on Friday 06 May 11 11:42 BST (UK)
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Hello. I am new to the site but have been researching my family history for a couple of years now. My grandmother was Helen (Nellie) Mackenzie born 23/12/1898 at Hillockhead in Rosemarkie. Her parents were Allan Mackenzie, farm grieve, and Mary whose maiden name was Fraser. I have tried tracing the families further back but have hit several snags and conflicts. Can anyone help??
Thanks in hope!
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Hi malcy63
Welcome to RootsChat :)
It might be good if you explain the sorts of problems you have been finding with the research so that people understand better where you are at and try and help with those problems.
Just as background, is this your grandmother with family in 1901:
Allan Mackenzie 40, ploughman b. Urquhart, Rossshire
Mary Mackenzie 40 b. Cromarty, Rossshire
Maggie Mackenzie 14
William Mackenzie 12
Allan Mackenzie 11
Samuel Mackenzie 9
James Mackenzie 7
Annie Mackenzie 6
Simon Mackenzie 4
Helen Mackenzie 2 b. Rosemarkie, Rossshire
John Mackenzie 1
Address: Wester Craiglands Roschaugh Estate, Rosemarkie
Monica :)
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Likely entry for the family from 1891 (big family in total!):
Allan McKenzie 30 farm servant b. Dores, Inverness Shire
Mary McKenzie 30 b.Cromarty, Ross Shire
Colm McKenzie 6
Mary Jane McKenzie 5
Maggie McKenzie 4
William McKenzie 2
Allan McKenzie 1
Thomas Fraser 9, step son b. Resolis, Ross Shire
Mary Fraser 54, mother in law, crofter b. Resolis, Ross Shire
Address: Mains of Connage Farm Servant's House, Petty Inverness-shire
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Thanks
Yes these are the correct family. The 1891 entry mentions Mary Fraser, mother in law, widow, living with the family. However I had some research done which found a marriage match to Mary Fraser whose parents were William Fraser and Mary Cumming. I have traced this couple in the 1891 census living at Upperwood Crofters House and the head of the family is William Fraser - so I don't know which entry is correct!
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Is the one you mention that you have found for a William and Mary Fraser in 1891?:
William Fraser 72, crofter b. Kirkhill, Invernessshire
Mary Fraser 50 b. America
Margaret Fraser 31 b. Cromarty, Cromartyshire
Thomas Fraser 55 brother b. Kirkhill, Invernessshire
William Fraser 9 grandson b. Resolis
David Stewart 7 grandson b. Glasgow
Address: Upperwood Crofter's House, Resolis, R&C
And then this one in 1871, after the birth of Mary and her sister Jane:
William Fraser 52, mason b. Kirkhill, Inverness
Mary Fraser 37 b. Island, Pt Edwards
Margaret Fraser 19 b. Cromarty
Mary Fraser 10 b. Cromarty
Jane Fraser 6 b. Cromarty
Anne Cummin 28, sister in law, soldier's daughter b. England
Address: Free Church Manse, Resolis
All fits well doesn't it.
Sometimes happens that someone was double counted on a census entry. Possibly mother Mary was visiting the McKenzie family and she was also included in the Fraser household in Resolis? Not supposed to happen but it did unfortunately.
Were there any Fraser witnesses at your Mary's wedding to Allan McKenzie? Who reported the death of mother Mary Cumming Fraser?
Monica :)
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Yes that's the one I found and I thought it might have been double counting apart from the fact that Mary Fraser is described as a widow on the first entry when I'm pretty sure William Fraser died a year later in 1892. Also, with her daughter's family she is described as born in Resolis whereas throughout the alternative set of records she is described as born in America (actually, Prince Edward's Island, Canada).
Hence my doubts started to grow...
There were no Fraser witnesses at the wedding. Mary Cumming Fraser's death was reported by her daughter Margaret and her parents are recorded (correctly) as William Cumming and Mary Solman.
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I can understand your doubts...but I think you are on the right track. You can only go with the facts that you have. You will I am sure also have Mary's death entry which again will confirm her parents' details. Your Mary's age looks to be consistent in the censuses and also her place of birth.
The only anomaly is, I think, why the entry for Mary Fraser with the McKenzies showed her as a widow :-\
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Thanks for your reassurance. I will continue to dig!
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Just a thought....
The Thomas Fraser 9, step son b. Resolis, Ross Shire - from the 1901 McKenzie entry. Have you checked his birth entry. Just wondering whether you would be able to tie up his birth address to that of Mary's parents?
Monica
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That was a very good thought Monica... I've just checked and Thomas Fraser was born at Upperwood of Poyntzfield in October 1881. His mother Mary is recorded in the 1881 census as living at No ! Upperwood. That looks like fairly conclusive evidence.
I just can't understand why MF was recorded as a widow in the 1891 census!
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That's great :D There is your proof!
Agree, don't understand why Mary Fraser showed as widow in 1891. I assume you have viewed William Fraser's 1892 death entry?
Monica
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WF died at Upperwood, Poyntzfield - so again that's more proof I suppose. His cause of death is cancer which he had for 1 year and 10 months. I suppose its possible Mary left him to live with her daughter and son in law and maybe assumed he had died before the census of 1891?? Its a long shot and would have been a bit callous of her to abandon him if he was dying of cancer!
Malcolm
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Malcolm, more likely son in law or enumerator made a mistake on the 1891 form I would think! Similar mistakes going on with the double counting of Mary Snr at both households also. Makes for fun research figuring it all out!
Monica :)
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Thanks Monica, you've been very helpful. I think I need everything to be "perfect" to include it in my research but also its more difficult living outside Scotland to have access to the records. I plan a trip to Edinburgh next week and possibly again in July to access the records for myself!
I appreciate your input today.
Malcolm
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Hello,
I'm very curious about William Fraser's parents as noted on his 1892 death certificate and am hoping they might be Hugh Fraser and Mary McTavish? If so I have information to share about the family.
I'm looking for their son William Fraser, born 18 May 1817 Cragan, Kirkhill and there are a lot of William Frasers to try to sort through :o
Jessie
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Hello
I'm afraid William's parents are recorded as Hugh Fraser and Margaret Bain. I guess this is not what you wanted to hear.
Malcolm
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Thanks, Malcolm for sending the info so quickly! While I would have liked a 'eureka-it's him', it saves me the disappointment of downloading another certificate that's not right! Do you mind also telling me who reported William Fraser's death?
Btw, I also have just seen your tree on ancestry and you call him John William and I wondered about the source of the John?
In case it's ever useful at least for exclusion purposes, the OPR baptismal record for 'my' William in Kirkhill is "Hugh Fraser Cragan and his spouse Mary MacTavish had a child born the 18th May 1817. Baptised this date (June 4th) named William. Witnesses: the Congregation". Siblings were Catherine (1812), Frederick (1814), Janet Bethel (1822), and John (1828). First 4 were born in Kirkhill and last in Muir of Ord in Kilmorack.
One other point--in case you hadn't found it, I think this would be his wife Mary Cumming with her family in 1841 in Caiplich, Inverness www.freecen.org.uk/:
Alexr CUMMING, 70, Mason
William CUMMING, 40, Army Pensioner
Mary CUMMING, 30 b. England
Margarat CUMMING, 15 b. England
Jane CUMMING, 10 b. outside of county
Mary CUMMING, 8 b. outside of county
Alexander CUMMING, 6 b. England
Anne CUMMING, 5 b. England
William CUMMING, 1
and the baptisms of two siblings is on familysearch, parents William Cummings and Mary:
Margaret Cummings 18 Jan 1826 at Christ Church, Tynemouth, Northumberland
Alexander Cumming 18 Aug 1839 at Church of England, Westbere, Kent, England
Warm regards,
Jessie
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Jessie
William Fraser died at Upperwood, Poyntzfield and the informant was daughter Jane Fraser. The John arose from some confusion on William's daughter Mary's marriage record where she incorrectly (?) records her father's name as John.
This family history business can be very frustrating, can't it??!
Best wishes
Malcolm