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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: Gallenruane on Thursday 05 May 11 17:10 BST (UK)
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DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT KILLASSER RC PARISH CAME UNDER BEFORE IT WAS FORMED IN 1847? Thanks I am trying to get info on my ancestor Farrell Ruane from Co Mayo. I have found two Farrel Rune's in GV of Mayo 1856 one mentioned in Killasser one in Attymass parishes it could be the same man? However, if anyone has any ideas please shout! Thanks all!
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Welcome to rootschat :)
There is something about Killasser here http://towns.mayo-ireland.ie/WebX?14@126.ZO9Sja7N0ZB.0@.ee7b9a9
and Attymass here http://www.attymass.ie/
In GV, the two entries for Farrell Ruane are Coolcashla, Killasser parish and Roosky, Attymass.
There are Ruanes in both parishes.
Is the timescale right for your ancestor?
what do you already know? Family Search has a Farrell Ruane as a parent c 1872, Swinford. :-\
There is also a death for Farrell Ruane, Swinford district 1882, aged 62 yrs
hope this helps
heywood
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I think the parish goes back further than 1847 - it's listed in the Catholic Directory of 1839 with parish priest John McNulty and curate John Coghlan. It's just that the available records only go back to 1847.
Killasser and the RC parish is also mentioned in Samuel Lewis 1837 directory - see : link (http://www.libraryireland.com/topog/k4.php) (towards the end of the page..)
Shane
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Attymass Parish lies to the South of Bonniconlon. A parish in the Barony of Gallen
Co,Mayo,and the province of Connaught. it is three and half miles from Foxford
the parish is bounded on the south by the River Moy and on the east by the Ox Mountain's.
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Thanks to all for your swift response!
My Farrell Ruane was born abt 1924, I dont know where I just figured in must be in Gallen Barony as the name is from there and also the 5 records I got from Ireland roots, 1 baptism, 2 marriages, 2 deaths were all Farrell Ruane were from parishes in Gallen, but the time scale was out. Farrell went to Alnwick Northumberland England is in census 1851, (he is not in 1841 uk census) with his wife Mary (Cunningham I think, I am awaiting a death cert from GRO for Sebina Cunningham who is on census 1861 uk with family but listed as visitor, could be Mary's Ma) ?. I have searched weddings for him in England in case he got married there, no joy! Figuring his and wifes ages in Mary abt 1826 in 1851 census, they should have been married around 1845-1849. Winifred first child is 1 yr old in 1851 uk census, so bearing in mind Mary might have lost a child before Winnie I thought that time frame would fit? Thanks all for your input, Great!!!
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Hello again,
it does look very difficult with the variations in spellings on each census.
I can see though that with the first name of Farrell, you would imagine a connection possible.
best wishes
heywood
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Yes certainly, I think the first name of Farrell is an unusual one, and as far as I have searched all 32 counties on various sites, i have only ever found it in Co Mayo, not even in Co Galway, Roscommon and Sligo where i found Ruane as a surname and. Though the surname Ruane is by far much more popular in Mayo than in the above counties mentioned.
There was a landlord in Killasser parish in Gallen (1856 GV) named John Nolan Ferrall, I can't seee it being used as a first name to honour his family (just a thought) or did this happen? However, it has its advantages in searching (Farrell) as a first name, but records must be there first. When I get a chance to look at the Tithes for the Gallen parishes I might find it there, i will keep on trying, and thanks to all here for their much needed and very appreciated help!
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Hi Heywood,
where can I get the Swinford Farrell Ruane's references in parish records you mentioned?
Thanks for stating it.
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Hi again,
I found the references on Family Search https://www.familysearch.org/
I must say that I don't find it an easy site to move around - you will get a variety of names and places.
However, if you click on the 'New Search' tab on left side, you can then
be more specific and even ask for exact matches.
Civil registrations did not begin until 1864 - hence there is a death for a Farrell but as he is a similar age to yours, there is already a difficulty.
Mary does give a place of birth in, I think 1881?, but it reads Corther.. - possibly 'man' at the end. I can't find anywhere to match.
I even wondered if it was an interpretation of 'county Mayo' by the enumerator.
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Could be pronounciation of CarronXXX or CartronXXX or CorranXXX or CarrowXXX with a T among the X's somewhere.
You can get a lot of suspect names like this. Go to http://maps.osi.ie/
Click search, select county Mayo.
Click Locality Box , a load of suspects show like Cartronrathroe or Carrowntubber
Click Townland box, even more suspects appear such as Carrownteeaun
These are all variants on "Ceathrú An" in Irish meaning the "Quarter of" or "Area of " something or somebody.
Corther just seems wrong, the only Townland or Locality beginning CORT is Cortoon ( more than one)
HTH
B
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Thanks again Guy's.
I will get on it now!
Yes the Corther, has had me baffled for a long time. I found a name of a village /townland in South Mayo (I think it was in Oghagower parish?) named something like Caharuane/ Cahiruan, but lost it straight away by clicking something wrong on the site, couldn;t get back to it. I thought that could have been what was ment by Mary as she would have been iliterate like most of my ancestors from that time were. I am looking forward to receiving the death cert for Sabina Cunningham, just hope it has Mary Ruane (Rown,Rowan etc) as present and says daughter.
Slán, go raith maith agat (probably spelled wrong Ha!)
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Heywood,
you are right, what a site, couldn't find a thing, but thanks anyway!
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Very impressive - and thanks to you too!
(Spelling not quite there but it's better than mine! I am trying to learn but it is very difficult).
Try this one http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start
Family Search pilot
enter Farrel Ruane
for location - type Mayo and then a dropdown list of places (you wouldn't believe the places called Mayo) and click on Mayo, Ireland.
There are 7 entries- most too late for you but it does have the one who dies.
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Thank a million Heywood,
got em all!
Yeh My Irish is poor, but I am going to get at it again.
Thanks a lot!
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Hi folks, in regards to the Corther in Mary Rown (Ruane) 1851 census Northumberland place of birth; I think this one more likley to be closer than the rest; Cahermore, (in Claremorris, Co. Mayo). The below are Co Galway. Most Caher’s in Ireland translate to the English; stone fort.
Caher
Caher
Caheradangan
Caheradine
Caherakeeny
Caherakilleen
Caheraloggy East
Caheraloggy West
Caherapheepa
Caherateemore North
Caherateemore South
Caherateige
Caheratrim
Caheratrim
Caheravoley
Caherawoneen North
Caherawoneen South
Caherbrian
Caherbriskaun
Caherbroder
Caherbulligin
Cahercarney
Cahercon
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it's difficult really.
Looking at the place name and comparing the writing to other letters round about- it looks to be Cortherman.
It the second letter was 'a' - it would be joined from the bottom and not the top etc.
Sadly, I can't find any place name which might be like this. :(
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Heywood,
Yeh thats for sure!
It has to be put down to an 19th century longhand typo of which we see many in census records as there is not a place on the island of Ireland with a Corther. I guess it is just down to whom wrote it, how it sounded phonetically to that person (especially if they were not Irish themselves). People then like now had speech impediments, etc,etc, we'll never know either way. There are not many records in East Mayo I can search (date for wise) I might be lucky with a marriage from 1840 onwards, though I will try Killasser parish 1847 first as they may have got hitched there seems to be where the O'Ruadháin's aka Ruane's hailed from in Gallen. But it could be anywhere in Mayo county. I will just have to be patient and search through each RC parish with dates that would fit. I have made a list up now and deleted the ones with late records. Just hoping Sabina Cunningham death cert June 1861 will state she was Mary's Ma, either by relationship to who reported it, just hope it was Farrell or Mary. Otherwise I won't have a surname, and I am sure plenty Farrell Ruanes married many Mary's in Mayo. Good thing is though Farrell is not too popular. My e mail buddy gave me the death info so it should be her as this guy is great at this sort of stuff. Thanks Heywood!
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Silly me didn't check my post.
I have the certificate of death of Sabina Cunningham: Alnwick Northumberland England (widow of Patrick Cunningham labourer) age at death 67 years. Died April 14th 1861, with the mark X of Farral Rown present at death reported 15th April 1861 does not have relationship. I will now look for a marriage for Patrick and Sabina abt 1815-1824 in Mayo possible also Galway/Roscommon/Sligo border region. Here I go on your site Heywood!
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It's a pity that death certificates don't give much information.
It's going to be difficult going back that far.
I looked at Griffiths for Cunninghams in Killasser and Attymass parishes but there are none :-\
As we can't see a marriage in England, and Winifred was born in Alnwick c 1850 (do you have her birth certificate?) you are looking for a marriage c 1848/49.
If there are 2 Farrell Ruanes in Griffiths as appears to be, one of them- Killasser parish is presumably the one born c 1820 and dies in Swinford district 1882.
He may be married to Honor McNicholas according to FS.
Then there is one who is married to Bridget Deacy in Foxford (Toomore) having children c 1865.
Also a Martin Ruane, married to Bridget McNulty, having a child, Farrell in Ballina area c 1870. Possibly Attymass?
Not sure what any of this indicates but it often helps to go over these things. ;)
Attymass/Killasser and Toomore civil parishes all border on each other ::)
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Heywood,
Exaclty!!!
I dont have Winnie's birth cert I will e mail my buddie as it never works for me trying online, never had a result yet! I think she was born 1848-1850, census 1851 says 1 year old (and census lie a lot had my grandfather down as 1 when he was 3 mths old in 1881). I have searched and only got Winifred Rooney Northumberland. This whole computer carry on searching puts my head away! I am always clicking the wrong thing. Cheers!
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Heywood,
Exaclty!!!
I dont have Winnie's birth cert I will e mail my buddie as it never works for me trying online, never had a result yet! I think she was born 1848-1850, census 1851 says 1 year old (and census lie a lot had my grandfather down as 1 when he was 3 mths old in 1881). I have searched and only got Winifred Rooney Northumberland. This whole computer carry on searching puts my head away! I am always clicking the wrong thing. Cheers!
That's the one I wondered about- can't see another
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Ye Heywood,
you dont happen to know the vol and page number for that birth do ya?
If I get that and its not her, i will conclude she was born in Mayo too and will search for her. For one reason I have articles I got online that state of anti Irish riots in the north east of England but particularly in Durham-Northumberland at that time which occured frequently between locals and the Irish immigrants, this was mainly about jobs but also Britain has always had a sectarian attitude towards Irish catholics in times of trouble. Even during the last episode from 1968 until about 1979 I wittnessed it myself.The Fenian trouble was raging then in England also. So maybe (I l know familes who stated born in England to avoid any trouble). My own Keenan family in Durham and Nthumberland changed their name several times to Kenny (sounds daft as that'a still Irish but sounds less than Keenan) and fist names from Owen to Isaac civil records state Isaac and Kenny RC records state Owen Keenan my GG granda so we'll see. I need the ref for the Winnie Roany birth if anyone can help thanks!
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Hi,
you can look her birth up on Free BMD - Winniefred Rooney Alnwick vol 25 pg 245
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Hi,
you can look her birth up on Free BMD - Winniefred Rooney Alnwick vol 25 pg 245
Thanks a lot, cheers I will now.
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Heywood,
for some unknown reason i have never found one ref on that site ever. i cant find which qtr month of birth. i dont know how you found the vol and page it doesn't work for me.
Ta!
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sorry- I realise now that I didn't put the quarter - December quarter 1849.
Don't know what you are doing wrong though- it is fairly straightforward ;)
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
enter type of search - name details- years to be searched - select area - if not sure of spelling - check phonetic spelling
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Thank ;)s Hewood ya a star!
I will try for other now, I am not very good with computers, as no doubt you have guessed. ;))
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Thank ;)s Hewood ya a star!
I will try for other now, I am not very good with computers, as no doubt you have guessed. ;))
;D ;)
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I would point out that Attymass has a local website with local history resources and I take it a local historian one could contact that way.
http://www.attymass.ie/
and
http://www.attymass.ie/historical_documents/index.php
And Mayo Library has an excellent mapping project, particularly with old maps like the 'Bald' map of Mayo where you can see 19th century spellings of place names.
start here.
http://www.mayolibrary.ie/en/LocalStudies/MapBrowser/BaldsMapofMayo/
and look here (http://www.mayolibrary.ie/mapbrowser/MapBrowser.html#M387|Ldefault|Sdefault|I1sl%2B4sl|WmCbbX5Y37W307H447VtF12|WfCaaX40Y45W265H485VtI1OsD10%2B235%2B255%2B191|Ff/) when you zoom ( magnify) in place names appear in new format and also on map itself :)
But "corth" must have been an Englishman hearing cort or cart from an Irishman , that is all. The T sound in the west is rather hard.
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Hi Bockety,
Thanks for your input. I mentioned the Attymass site in my first post but forgot Mayo library site - although it is in the resources.
The historical documents part that you mention is very interesting and very moving and of course explains so much.
With regard to pronunciation/ hearing, I wondered if it could even be a distortion of 'County Mayo' - although it does look to have 'n' at the end of the word.
best wishes
heywood
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Cortherman = County Mayo is too much of stretch Heywood. Sounds unlikely in my minds ear :)
I referred in particular to Bald because there are placenames shown on that unique map that are not recorded anywhere else. There is a "Knock a Cortones" south of Beltra lake between townlands Muckenagh and Barnastang on Bald (http://www.mayolibrary.ie/mapbrowser/MapBrowser.html#M383|Ldefault|Sdefault|I1sl%2B4sl|WmCbbX5Y37W307H447VtF12|WfCaaX40Y45W265H485VtI1OsD10%2B235%2B255%2B191|Ff/)by the way
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Our ears are obviously tuned differently ;D
That's what I meant re the 'n'- if it wasn't for that I could go along with 'Cortherma..' as a corruption of CountyMay..
Not that there is any corruption in that county of course ;)
Mind you at the moment we have no evidence that she was from Mayo at all. As I said, there don't seem to be any Cunninghams in those parishes at that time although there are plenty round about.
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Never heard it said without a big ignorant YO! at the end Heywood and in fairness ya gotta admit ....... :P
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Thanks a lot guys that site is brilliant, cheers!
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Guy's (Heywood)
Got Wiinifreds birth certificate, mother Mary Cunningham (no probs there then) Farrel Rooney, same address as 1851 census for Roan, same address Sabina died. Now because you guys know a hell of a lot more than I do!!! Do I search for a Farrell Rooney??? Maybe it was changed to Rowan, Rown, Roan for reasons I last stated? I will now begin a search for UK marriages and check the roots site for Farrel and Mary Rooney (Cunningham marriages). Thanks all for your valuable help! Keep it coming guys if you get more, thanks!!!
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Well, I have searched all the sites i had in favourites for Farrell Rooney, no show!!! I did find this from the Tithes which could be Farrell;s da and Pat Cunningham living near each other, but I doubt it very much, it doesn't look like Ruane (maybe if the A is a U). I will spend the rest of the day trying though. Fuerty Is pretty far off the Mayo border I thnk by the map site. I am glad my ggg granda's name was Farrel though, it narrows it down its not so common. I will have to pick carefully for parishes as I will have a drive down to Mayo next week see if i can bribe (ha make a donation to) a few local priests, done it before in Louth worked a treat! Any expert advice from you guys on parishes more likely (I know records are limited) to be near the mark would be appreciated. I thought Swinford RC and Foxford area. Tithes found below! Thanks ya'll.
Pat Cunningham, Muff, Fuerty, Roscommon 1825
Farrell Rain, Castlecoote, Fuerty, Roscommon 1825
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With regard to the name, I would speculate that Rooney was an interpretation of the surname.
As you know, though, rumour has it that I am not very good at interpreting names ;D
I have to say though that I am now stuck. I have checked Griffiths for Fuerty parish for any clues - can't spot any.
I have looked at Shilbottle for any other Irish folk - Farrell and Mary are the only ones in 1851. Can't see any other Ruane (variations) in Northumberland, except a John Ruane who is a visitor in Newcastle.
All I can say, is good luck in Mayo ;)
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Yeh, Heywood
I think your right about Rooney just being Ruane etc, wrote or interpreted wrong as I can't find no Farrell Rooney anywhere!!! Plus its only the once I came accross that instaed of Roan, Roune, Rowan, Rown, etc for that family. I will drive down to Mayo Sunday and spend a week there anyway, see if I can find anything. One thing is for sure, that is the only county bout of 32 that has Farrell Ruanes (plus variants) apart from the Roscommon Farrel Rain guy from the Tithes, and Roscommon is next door anyway, so I am heading in the right direction. Thanks for all your help, its well appreciated I assure you, cheers.
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Enjoy yourself and good luck :)
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I suspect that Farrell was the ( old sp) Fearghal (modern sp) Fergal . There was a great reluctance to record Gaelic names in official documents in the 19th century but church records may be different.
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Heywood, and all.
Just paid for and found Mary Cunningham and Farrel Roan marriage 1846 Strokestown Co Roscommon. It took some tweeking so I didn't get robbed but I deduced it down, none anywhere just Co Roscommon. Thanks all for your help, looks like I will have to hit RC parish for Strokestown as well I 'LL see what records they hold!Cheers!
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Oh well done! That's great stuff you're a bit closer now.
Are there any other details?
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Heywood,
Just their names and wittnesses, but there must have been some lazy priests as they seldom put parents first names. I will check Mayo all the same as you can't get everything online. Records for baps in Srokestown start 1830, but hey their ages on census records are never right anyway, might just catch one, its 3 years out but its worth it. I 'll keep trying. Cheers!
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Hi Guys! Heywood, just arrived back from my Roscommon/Mayo trip , lot of driving I am wrecked! Can you help me please while in Ballina, I asked and was told Ruane is pronounced RooWan or RooWayne, cant remember as I was very drunk at the time, any help appreciated. In the North it is just pronounced Rooan I paid for full searches so await results. Its been a while since I was there but what struck me while driving back (well sobered up of course 2 days later) was from Boyle Co Roscommon through Co Leitrim was lots of business's and bridges lanes etc with the surname TAYLOR. Seams to be common in that area wonder if it goes back to the Norman Le Tailuier's? Just a point of interest. It rained non stop as usual, but was great! By the way lots of places/townlands begining with Cor and some Cort in Roscommon/Leitrim, in records but no Corther! Cheers.
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I would say the surname Ruane is pronounced something like Roo Anne..
Shane
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That's the same as me- Shane :)
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it does sound a bit like there is a sort of W in there somewhere!
it's the switch from the O sound (really the U) to the A sound - same sort of effect as Mrs Doyle of Father Ted fame with her 'Ah Go On, Go On, Go On..'
S.
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Heywood,
Great first result from Co Roscommon concerning Roan, Cunningham research, paid fee and research ongoing. It was worth the trip down there. Most Mayo RC records are no good for 'An Gorta Mór' victim emigration, later on they are ok. How do I get onto a Roscommon topic page on this site. I am useless at this internet lark?
Thanks in advance!
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Hi,
just scroll back up this page to the headings. Just above 'Mayo' you can see 'Ireland General'.
Click on that and it shows all the counties. Just scroll down then for Roscommon.
Good luck ;)