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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: LindseyB on Tuesday 03 May 11 16:59 BST (UK)

Title: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: LindseyB on Tuesday 03 May 11 16:59 BST (UK)
Hi

I wonder whether anyone can help please.

Samuel Haley was born c1776, I don't know where.  On his daughter's marriage certificate he was a cordwainer.  He married a Mary (I've found a reference to this on familysearch but nowhere else), perhaps on 2 December 1816.  I believe she was born c1795 in Sussex (according to the 1861 census), but I don't know where.  In the 1841 census she was living in Winchester Street, Tower Hamlets with Thomas born c1828, John born c1830 and Benjamin born c1837.  I can't find her in the 1851 census and in 1861 she's living alone in Carlisle Street, Tower Hamlets.

I'm looking for Mary's maiden name and where she was born and more information about Samuel.  I have a death certificate for him (I've no proof it's his!) - he died 14 June 1840.

Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks.

Lindsey
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: LindseyB on Tuesday 03 May 11 17:14 BST (UK)
My mistake, I do have Mary in the 1851 census living in Carlisle (Carlile?) Street, Tower Hamlets.
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 03 May 11 17:43 BST (UK)
I have a death certificate for him (I've no proof it's his!) - he died 14 June 1840.

What address did he die at? Who is the informant? What was his occupation?
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: LindseyB on Tuesday 03 May 11 17:47 BST (UK)
Hi lizdb,

He died at 6 Providence Row, Clerkenwell.  On his daughter Mary's marriage certificate his occupation was a cordwainer, but on the death certificate I have, it's put as "seavinger" which I believe is a scavenger :'(

The informant was Ann Giles who was present at death but the name means nothing.

KR

Lindsey
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: lizdb on Tuesday 03 May 11 18:06 BST (UK)
Not looking so sure that the death is him ....


another question (sorry)
have you got the ref for the 1851 / 1861 findings of Mary? I cant see her!
Where were all the children born? Any after 1837? If sothe birth cert will give a maiden name for mum
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: LindseyB on Tuesday 03 May 11 18:18 BST (UK)
Hi

On the '51 census (H.O. 107/1542) Mary has her birth place as Borough.  On the '61, she states Sussex followed by the word Borough.  All children were born in Bethnal Green.  On the '61 census her daughter Mary and son-in-law William George are also living at Carlisle Street.  To add to the confusion, Carlisle Street seems to run into Winchester Street ....

KR

Lindsey
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: LindseyB on Tuesday 03 May 11 18:56 BST (UK)
Sorry, you asked for both reference numbers.  The '61 is R.G. 9/262. 

Thanks.
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: LindseyB on Wednesday 04 May 11 10:12 BST (UK)
Morning everyone,

Can anybody suggest how I can move forward with this side of my family please?

Thanks

Lindsey
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 05 May 11 20:08 BST (UK)
Under "Haley" in 1851 and 61? I still havent got her!

(What are Piece, Folio and Page refs?)
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: lizdb on Thursday 05 May 11 20:36 BST (UK)
Is this them in 1861?

RG9 262 37 26

36 Carlisle Street, Bethnal Green

William George 42 Porter bn Bethnal green
Mary wife 39 bn Bethanl gr
Elizabeth 15
Ann 12
Emma 3

another household at same address -

Ann Haley widow 66 laundress bn Surrey Borough

Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: Maryam on Thursday 05 May 11 20:39 BST (UK)
Hi

1851 Census
HO107 Piece 1542 Folio 278 Page 17
36 Carlile (sic) St, Bethnal Green, Tower Hamlets, Middlesex

Mary HALEY Head Mar (it looks like Marr !) 56 Charwoman b Borough
Thos Son 23 Labourer b Bethnal Green
John Son 21 Labourer b Bethnal Green

No sign of son Benjamin who was 4 in the 1841 census.

In the 1841 census, her name appears to be Ann, and Ann, Thomas and John are recorded as not born in county, Benjamin bic  ???

KR
Maryam
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: LindseyB on Thursday 05 May 11 20:45 BST (UK)
Sorry both, dodgy internet connection this evening ...

On the '61 the reference is RG 9/262.

It just doesn't seem to sit comfortably together ...

KR

Lindsey
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: dawnsh on Thursday 05 May 11 21:07 BST (UK)
A Samuel Haley bachelor married Sarah Martin spinster after banns on 3rd Dec 1816 at St John at Hackney. They appear to have had their children baptised at Tottenham though.

The entry on family search you refer to comes from a transcription made in 1916.

Dawn
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: LindseyB on Thursday 05 May 11 21:16 BST (UK)
Hi dawnsh

I'll have another look tomorrow and try and get my head around it all ...

Thanks & regards

Lindsey
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: dawnsh on Thursday 05 May 11 21:51 BST (UK)
The 1840 death cert you have is the one registered at Clerkenwell, this Samuel, of Providence Row, was buried on 21st June, aged 64 at St Pancras.

Another Samuel Haley aged 64 of Craven Street was buried on 12th May 1842 at St John the Baptist, Hoxton.

Mary Martha Haley, the 'daughter' you mention married to William George was baptised 3rd October 1819 at St Leonards Shoreditch but her parents were Samuel & Ann Haley and he was a weaver.

The other baptised children of Samuel, a weaver, & Ann are

Sarah Ann bn 1813
Richard Samuel bn 1817
Samuel Joseph bn 1822
John James bn 1827

A possible marriage for Samuel Haley & Ann Lock at St Dunstan Stepney on 25 November 1812.

Dawn
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: dawnsh on Thursday 05 May 11 22:04 BST (UK)
The 1840 death cert you have...

Ann Giles is living in the same house as another Haley Family at Providence Row Clerkenwell

HO107 pc 662 / bk 5 / folio 25 / pg5
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: LindseyB on Friday 06 May 11 11:37 BST (UK)
Good morning all,

My husband worked on this part of the tree so I've needed to get myself up to date with it all.

Firstly, the Samuel Haley I have the death certificate for is probably not my SH.

During the various census we've looked at the ladies seem to change their name so we have a mother called Mary and maybe even two daughters both called Mary, possibly one called Mary Martha and the other called Mary Ann.  We have a marriage for Mary Martha marrying William George (25 December 1838) in Stepney.  William George was a shoemaker and Mary Martha a leather worker.  Both gave their address as 30 George Street, Stepney.  Witnesses were Charles Hayday (?) and Ithiel Price Just (???).  Two year later when they had William (presumably their first child) they were living at 26 Carlisle Street, Bethnal Green. 

When William's son (Richard William George) married in 1861, a witness was Mary Martha George.  I don't know if it was unusual to have your mother/mother in law witnessing your marriage or not?

We've just been very confused by all the Marys ....

Any idea?

Thanks & regards

Lindsey

Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: lisabyrne on Tuesday 08 May 12 09:27 BST (UK)
i wonder if you could clarify something for me please
i think i am following a similar line, the same line but have confused myself too.

I have John Haley b1830, wife Fanny/ frances
living at 36 Carter street, bethnal green in 1851 with mother Mary ann Haley, charwoman.
brother John Haley same household
anderson family same household.

26 oct 1851 marrid to frances mason. john was a bricklayer, father also JOHN HALEY, a weaver.
address at marriage is 36 Carlisle street (so have same family)
he married by 1861.
in 1861 he is living with wife and children at 5 charles street, bethnal green.
his children born 1853-1864.
one of his daughters was also called Mary Martha b1854!

same address as marriage  in 1871 (36 Carlisle street) is ANN HALEY (i am presuming mother of JOHN).
johns daughters are with her at this address and another grandaughter is also listed  ELIZABETH ANDERSON, widow, age 26.

elizabeth anderson was maiden name GEORGE. therefore your Mary Martha Haley  & william george are daughter and son in law to ANN, Mary then is sister to my john, who named his daughter after her.

now i get confused....

Johns marriage cert said father JOHN weaver.

you have "Mary Martha Haley, the 'daughter' you mention married to William George was baptised 3rd October 1819 at St Leonards Shoreditch but her parents were Samuel & Ann Haley and he was a weaver.

The other baptised children of Samuel, a weaver, & Ann are

Sarah Ann bn 1813
Richard Samuel bn 1817
Samuel Joseph bn 1822
John James bn 1827

A possible marriage for Samuel Haley & Ann Lock at St Dunstan Stepney on 25 November 1812.


could JOHN HALEY, weaver , father of John & Mary Martha also be SAMUEL HALEY, weaver, father of MAry Martha.


i cant find John or samuel as fathers at any of the addresses we have for this branch.

sorry this is long winded, just nt sure how to explain this...

any help would be greatly appreciated.
regards
lisa
Title: Re: Samuel HALEY and family, Middlesex
Post by: LindseyB on Wednesday 09 May 12 13:37 BST (UK)
Hi Lisa, thanks for getting in touch.

It all sounds very familiar but I'm in Mexico on holiday but I'll have a proper look when I return.

Lindsey