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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: SASSY21 on Tuesday 03 May 11 11:51 BST (UK)
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My mother was Illegitimate. Birth certificate had her real fathers name was on it.
I would love to find out more about him, but forever hiting brick walls.
His name was Herbert Poole. and lived in Glasgow. named as occupation Music Hall Artiste.
My mothers name was Margaret Pearl Poole.
My question is in Scotland they say there is a link between the names of their grandparents. Which do you think could relate to Margaret's father's parents?
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Hi
If you go to this website www.halmyre.abel.co.uk/Family/naming.htm it will show you the Scottish naming pattern.
I'm not sure if it will help you very much, unless you have more info than you've given us.
Lizzie
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*IF* they followed the naming pattern when there was only one child, it would suggest that Margaret Pearl's maternal grandmother was possibly Margaret.
Then it's entirely possible that she was called for BOTH grandmothers, in which case Henry's mother may have been Pearl. Doubt if he's Scottish in that line TBH probably travelled around the music hall circuit; and the name Poole is English.
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lizziew
There is very little info, apart from his address 23 Cambridge Road, Glasgow.
My late mother only recalls seeing him a couple of times.
The date of mum's birth Aug 1926. That's all the info I have. Which is such a shame.
That's why hoping that the 1st/2nd names might give me a lead.
Thank you for you message. I shall go and have a look.
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fifer1947
My mother did have an older sister, but with her mother husband. being her father. But I have to admit her didn't correspond with names of her mothers name.
I have found 2 Herbert's in Glasgow. with family each of them. the mothers are Margaret & Pearl!
There is a connection with Newcastle but I'm not sure how. Except Grandma's husband died in a nursing home there in 1926.
So thank you for your help.
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Previous threads-
Herbert Poole (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,368859.msg2437477.html#msg2437477) (Lanarkshire)
Hebert Poole (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,368876.msg2437581.html#msg2437581) (Beginners)
Music hall artistes (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,368885.msg2437666.html#msg2437666) (Travelling People)
Herbert Poole music hall artiste (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369835.msg2444754.html#msg2444754) (Travelling People)
Was your mother's birth acutally registered as Margaret Pearl Poole?
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Hello aghadowey
As you can see I'm alway's trying to find out info. But not getting any where.
Yes my mother was registered as Margaret Pearl Poole. Her sister was Winifred Doreen Collins. different fathers. So I am curious to find more info about my Grandfather.
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Once reason I asked is that Pearl is used as a nickname for Margaret.
Multiple threads looking for details about the same person/people only cause needless dupilcation and confusion for those trying to help so it's best to confine requests to a single thread.
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aghadowey
Multiple threads. When delivered at the same time. I am in complete agreement with you.
But as the threads have been over a period of a few yrs. When lots of different people access this site. At various times of their research.
The goodwill and HELPFULLNESS of lots of people. Is indeed a very valuable source. As the queries have not been replicated every week, day, year!
Harsh comments for such a brilliant site! We all know the Genealogy code. and never wish to cause extra concerns for Roots.com members.
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It's always possible to added new details or ask additional questions on an 'old' thread so there's almost always no reason to start a new one. If, however, there is sufficient reason for another thread on the same subject you should link the 2 threads so that others can see what's been posted previously.
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Hello aghadowey
Thank you for your help. I did not realise you could add additional queries to an old thread. I will bear that in mind. Next time I want to add queries on that particular topic.
But the question of the topic was related to naming, which thankfully lizziew, had answered for me.
I'm sure quite a few have the same misunderstandings. If we had read the beginners instructions, the problems would have not arisen.
If life were so simple!
Kind regards
PS Thank you for the info related to Margaret Pearl. I'm sure her mother wouldn't knowingly have called her these names. I personally had never heard that. A sheltered life I lead. Thanks again.
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Once reason I asked is that Pearl is used as a nickname for Margaret.
That's interesting,aghadowey.
My mother was Pearl and I have two friends named Pearl, but they were all christened with that name. Is that an Irish custom do you think, to nickname Margaret as Pearl? Mum's maternal grandparents were Irish.
Dawn M
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Sassy.....
I know that it won't help you find your grandfather, But HERBERT POOLE , born Glasgow 1896, father William and mother Margaret emigrated to Canada in 1924. He went to stay with his sister, and gave his occupation as butcher.......
JeannieR
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One other suggestion from me :)
Have you thought to check on the newly released 1911 Scottish census to see whether anything shows for Herbert? I don't know what age range your grandmother was so unsure whether Herbert would already have been working in the threatres by 1911.
Monica
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BillyBlue
It could be an irish thing. As I haven't heard this before.
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JeanieR
That's interesting. As I had only found 2 Herbert Poole's. It has more or less eliminate my Margaret theory.
And possibly the Butcher occupation.
A snippet I had forget to mention. when my mother last saw her father. she went to a house. it has a maid. And the father had spatz on his shoes. and bow tie, so I suppose a gentleman. But it hasn't corresponded with anyone.
It may have been his parents house. or self made. suprising as he was on the stage.
Thank you for that info. Hopefully it has helped me a little more. Thank you so much.
Kind regards
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monicaL
Thank you for your thoughts. I did check but couldn't find anything.
It all seems so odd, to not find anything. I've searched Newcastle too. as I know Grandma married her husband there. Why I do not know. As her husband came from Ireland. And was also on the stage.
I have wondered if they were together in Newcastle. But can find nothing on Herbert there either.
Hey ho. I shall plod on.
But thank you so much. I need all the nudging possible. And thoughts.
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I have some notes at hand from c1930 from family private papers that show that Pearl and Margaret were interchangeable in NSW Australia in the era 1910 to 1930 ... Also noted the usual Meg Marg Maggie Molly Polly Pearlie and Peggie. NSW c 1930 demographics would show many ties to locations throughout UK.
Cheers JM
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Hi majm
That is interesting. My mother would always refer to herself as Pearl. I don't know whether her mother called her that.
So it would seem that would be why.
Thank you for that snippet. I have heard of Peggie, and have queried that one before. But none seemed to have heard of that one.
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Sassy.......
I think I may have had a breakthrough !!
I have found a HERBERT POOLE on th 1911 census, so cannot give details
BUT his four sisters are violinists,pianonists and music teachers ! Sound interesting ? His parents are James and Flora
JeannieR
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Hello JeanieR
Wow, that sounds very plausible. Were they In Glasgow?
It would seem that at last we have a very sound possibility. It would all tie with his Music Hall Artiste occupation.
Hmn where do I go from here.
You are so kind to look for this info. I really have been at a dead end for so long. It certainly does sound like it might be the right family.
Thank you again.
Kind regards
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Hello Sassy...
My pleasure. I am pretty certain, that this COULD be your man !
The address was 31 Govan Road Glasgow AND
I have found that this Herbert Poole married in 1922, from the same address. He gave his occupation as Picture House Manager..Perhaps he played the organ or piano, as films were silent then...I feel quite excited...
His bride was Catherine MacNamee, and their wedding took place December 26th 1922 at St Saviours Chapel , Govan.
JeannieR
This was meant to be a PM, but I am soooo excited
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JeanieR
You clever clogs. Finding all this information. Wow. Picture House manager. That could explain a lot. the entertainment business. Obviously earning good money. To have a big house.
You are a little angel. Bless you. It all fits in. brilliant. Sounds as though he must have been having a fling with my Grandma. As he was married 4 yrs before mum was born.
Sounds about right for the show business people.
Well how can I thank you. I shall be jumping up and down all night. You are so clever. I have never found any of that, brilliant.
I wonder which picture house. Another thought.
Bless you again...and again...........
Thank you.
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This was meant to be a PM, but I am soooo excited
So you should be Jeanie ;D That's a great find!
Monica
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I'll second that Monica. :)
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Once reason I asked is that Pearl is used as a nickname for Margaret.
That's interesting,aghadowey.
My mother was Pearl and I have two friends named Pearl, but they were all christened with that name. Is that an Irish custom do you think, to nickname Margaret as Pearl? Mum's maternal grandparents were Irish.
Dawn M
As a postscript to Pearl / Margaret, in today's Brisbane Courier Mail -no not today's, yesterday's, I just read it today :D - is a page headed "Baby bump watch begins" (and they've only been married a few days??? ) and it lists possible names, one of is "Margaret, meaning both Pearl and Daisy"
Dawn M
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Thank you for that Dawn.
Confirmation that aghadowey was correct. Having never heard of it before. My apologies for doubting you.
But to have Daisy too, well, I'd never heard of that one either. I can imagine my late mother looking down and having a laugh. Knowing she could have been called Daisy too.
Made my day. Thanks for that Dawn. I shall have to tell my pregnant daughter. I'm sure she is having a girl. Daisy is also the same name a little girl in our close, I shall have to tell her mum.
Many thanks
Wendy
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Hello Again.....
I really suggest, that you find out who was living at the address , given on the birth certificate of Margaret Pearl.....
When I first started my research, I simply could not get going with my Hughes family, from Liverpool ! My grandmother was Sarah , but on the 1881/1891 census she was using the name Sissy . How was I to know ?
I knew my mum was born at 116 Tunnel Road in 1917, and had always said that it was in the flat, above a jewellers, owned by an aunt and uncle. A very kind Rootschatter, went to the Liverpool library, and looked at the Electoral Registers, and hey presto ! I was off. I was fortunate however, that uncles name was Augustus Ceaser Bradshaw, so it did not take long to find his marriage to Gran's sister.
Family History
Level 3
The Mitchell Library
North Street
Glasgow G3 7DN
0141 287 2937 / 2988
libraries[at]glasgowlife.org.uk
Most libraries will do a free lookup, if the search takes no more than 30 minutes. Worth contacting them I think
Jeannie
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The name Margaret means 'pearl' which is why Pearl is often used as a nickname for Margaret. The French form of Margaret is Marguerite which is a name for a 'daisy' which is how Daisy came to be used as a nickname.
There are numerous online sites devoted to names (origin, nicknames, variations, etc.)- just google 'baby names', 'Irish baby names' etc.
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This is my all time favourite site for first name variants:
www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=margaret
Daisy and Pearl show there :)
Monica
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JeannieR
Thank you for that idea, I shall as I have had help from them before. with success.
The information on mums birth certificate-
Herbert Poole Music Hall Artiste
Margaret McCluskey Widow of Vincent Clare Collins, Music Hall Artiste, who died at Newcastle on Tyne, England. 29th June 1926.
( Domicil- 23 Cambridge Street, Glasgow.)
From this I couldn't ascertain who lived there. But on the section for Informant it has M. Collins. mother & Herbert Poole, Father. 23 Cambridge Street, Glasgow.
Any ideas!
Thank you again for your help.
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agadowey
My Grandma couldn't have know that Pearl was the nickname of Margaret. I don't suppose she would have named her daughter these names.
I shall have a look at these sites.
Kind regards
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monicaL
I shall go and have a look.
Many thanks
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I wondered when you wrote Cambridge ROAD, I couldn't remember one. I was born less than a mile from Cambridge Street. ;D
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Yes, fifer1947.
I have just realised my mistake. When copying details from the birth certificate.
Well I suppose if you had a few bevvies, it might have been mistaken for Road ;D
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Was looking for a pic but no joy on 23 Cambridge St but I found this link to that address which was offices and warehouse for William McFarlane, wringers mangles and washing machines!! LOL I would imagine the warehouse/office were on the ground floor with tenements above.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertpool/5355133672/
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Would have been something like this picture no doubt. This is Cambridge Street as I knew it in the '60s.
http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/image.php?i=13284&r=2&t=4&x=1
Check out the other pics on Virtual Mitchell
http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/index.php?a=subjects&s=gallery&key=SYToyOntpOjA7aTo0ODI7aToxO3M6MTI6IkNhbWJyaWRnZSBTdCI7fQ==&pg=2
Cambridge Street ran up from New City Road (high numbers that end and finished at Renfrew St or Sauchiehall Street - I think!) ;D
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Hello fifer1947
Thank you for the sites, I shall go and peruse. Bless you for your help.
Kind regards