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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: sweitz3 on Sunday 01 May 11 00:20 BST (UK)

Title: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: sweitz3 on Sunday 01 May 11 00:20 BST (UK)
Looking for any information on James Fox, born 04/30/1861 in Leciestershire.  Son of "Fox & Hanna".  This is all I have.  He married Elizabeth Grant, 08/02/1886 in Leciesterchire.  Family moved to Philadelphia.  Fox's, Grant's, Weston's, Walker's, and Rodger's...... all in knitting profession.  Dixon's too!

Can anyone help?
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: Tati on Sunday 01 May 11 09:00 BST (UK)
Hi Sweitz3,

Is this the family in 1901 - James born Barrow on Soar?

1901
RG13/3005 75 9
Leicester Formerly St Mary, Leicestershire
95 Durham St

James Fox,  head, 39, Frame Work Knitter, b. Barrow on Soar
Elizabeth, wife, 35, Shoe Machinist, b. Leicester
Hannah E, dau, 14, Hosiery Counter Girl, b. do.
Priscilla, dau, 12, b. do.
James, son, 10, b. do.
Thomas, son, 8, b. do.
Ethel M, dau, 4, b. do.

I have a feeling that this could be him in earlier censuses:

1871
RG10/3274 48 14
Leicester St Margaret
Russell Street

James Cox, head, 50, Frame Work Kniter, b. Thurmaston
Caroline, wife, 46, b. do.
George, son, 21, Frame Work Knitter, b. do.
James, son, 9, Winder Worsted, b. Barrow on Soar
Priscilla, dau, 15, Cigar Maker, b. Thurmaston
William, son, 4, scholar, b. Barrow on Soar
Elizabeth, dau, 6 mo, b. Thurmaston

Although the above family are Cox in 1871, 1861 shows them as Fox and mum is Ann, a variant of Hannah (and indeed she's Hannah in 1851):

1861
RG9/2279 32 23
Barrow upon Soar, Leicestershire
South Street

James Fox, head, 40, Stocking Frame Work Knitter, b. Thurmaston
Ann, wife, 38, b. do.
Elizabeth, dau, 17, Stocking Frame Work Knitter, b. do.
George, son, 12, Winder Worsted, b. do.
Ann, dau, 8, scholar, b. do.
Priscilla, dau, 5, scholar, b. do.
+ 2 lodgers named Samuel Harput? and Thomas White

 :)
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: Tati on Sunday 01 May 11 09:16 BST (UK)
I'm having trouble spotting the family in 1881.
Priscilla is here, staying with her now married sister:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0d0g/
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: sweitz3 on Sunday 01 May 11 13:32 BST (UK)
Tati;

Yes!  This is him.  My notes from my Grandmother Gertrude Elizabeth Fox,[Born, 03/24/1902, Leicester], insist her Father was from Barrow on Soar.  I do not know where that is, this is him.  The Russel Street address is also noted by my Grandmother.

This is great!  I hope to be able to follow the Fox's back some more.  My Grandmother said that she, her Mother and others came to America on the "white star line...she did not like the trip...stormy!

I will check on Priscilla..I have some pic's pf her friends...
Thank you for this info.  I am in your debt.
sewitz3
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: Tati on Sunday 01 May 11 15:18 BST (UK)
My pleasure  :)

It would be useful to get hold of the marriage certificate for James Cox Fox and Elizabeth Grant, to confirm that James' father was James.

In the mean time, here are James and Hannah in 1851:

1851
HO107/2087 678 36
South Thurmaston, Leicestershire

James Fox, head, 31, Frame Work Knitter, b. Thurmaston
Hannah, wife, 29, Frame Work Knitter, b. do.
Elizabeth, dau, 7, scholar, b. do.
George, son, 2, scholar, b. do.

2 doors away, we have a Fox family old enough to be James' parents - just posting in case they turn out to be related:

James Fox, head, 63, Frame Work Knitter, b. Thurmaston
Sarah, wife, 61, FWK, b. do.
Thomas, son, unm, 20, FWK, b. do.
George, son, unm, 17, FWK, b. do.

FreeBMD www.freebmd.org.uk finds a marriage in Barrow upon Soar district (covering Thurmaston) that would fit the age of James and Hannah's oldest daughter nicely:

Dec 1842 Barrow upon Soar 15 75
James Fox - Hannah Pole


Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: Tati on Sunday 01 May 11 15:38 BST (UK)
1841 seems to confirm that the family found above had a James of the right age

1841
HO107/592/11 13 23
Thurmaston South, Leicestershire
Watts Yard

James Fox, 50, Sock m
Sarah, 45
James, 20
William, 15
Thomas, 9
Charles, 15
George, 6

All born in county. Ages over 15 were rounded down to the nearest 15 in the 1841 census.


A possible Hannah Pole in Thurmaston:

1841
HO107/592/11 18 33
Thurmaston South

Thomas Pole, 45, Sock m
Maria, 55, bot born in county
Thomas, 20
Hannah, 15
Mary, 15
Elizabeth, 13
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: sweitz3 on Sunday 01 May 11 17:44 BST (UK)
This is Great!   Please understand I am a little slow when it comes to family relations......one wonders why it falls to me to do genealogy, no?  So, please excuse me if I embarrass myself.

Here goes.  (1) so it sure seems that our "James Fox (2)" is located.  His Father, also "James Fox(1)" seems to be next door...exactly where my Grandmother said.  This also seems to confirm who our mysterious "George Fox" [17 in 1851] is, in that he is a younger brother of "James Fox (2)" and now we also have another brother listed as "Thomas." [20 in 1851].

We have some pictures of George Fox, who my Grandmother used to say was always at big meetings in the square....making speeches or preaching.....What was going on in the area at this time?  I should have paid attention in History Class, oh well! 

Here is my Grandmother, Gertrude Elizabeth Fox's Family List:

Father: James Fox, [April 30, 1861]  James Fox & Hannah Pole
Mother: Elizabeth Grant, [October 24, 1866] Arthur Grant & Charlotte Weston

Children:   
Hanna Elizabeth - B. 01/24/1887  Married Harry Cooper
Priscilla - B. 1/26/1998 
James Fox, Jr. - B. 1/27/1891
Thomas Fox - B. 11/27/1892
Florrie Fox - B. 11/22/1894 Leicester - Florrie died January 10, 1896 Leicester
Ethel May - B. 5/23/1897
Edith Elsie - B. 6/18/1899
Gertrude - B. 3/24/1902

Q- What happened to William, [listed 1871 census]?
Q- How can we find Hannah Pole's Family
Q- We have a "Hanna Green" picture, Priscilla's friend?
Q- Would anybody want our present info on the status of the Families?
Q- It seems the Fox's, Grant's, Cooper's, Weston's all were in Philadelphia and involved in the knitting/hosiery mill trade.  Is this of interest to anyone?
Q- Would anyone want pictures of these Family members?

Thank you so much Tati....... this is more progress that I have made in 6 years.  I have info but not confirmation(s)....and now I can look for the Fox's.
We have a lot of info on the Charlotte Weston line if anyone is interested in what happened to Charlotte.

Please call on me if there's anything you need here.  I am in Philadelphia, Pa. and can get most anywhere for research.
Sweitz3

Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: Tati on Sunday 01 May 11 19:13 BST (UK)
Thanks for the nice offer  :)

To make sure that the families I found in 1841 belong to you, you might need a few certificates, such as James' birth cert to check his mother's maiden name :
James Fox - Jun 1861 - Barrow Upon Soar 7a 142

Then if the mother is shown as Hannah Pole, the James Fox/Hannah Pole marriage certificate would tell both James' and Hannah's father's names.

As far as William is concerned, this looks like him:

1891
RG12/2529 144 15
St Margaret, Leicestershire
120 Crafton? Street

William Fox, head, 25, Framework Knitter, b. Barrow on Soar
Harriett, wife, 25, Machinist, b. Leicester
Florence, dau, 3, b. do.

1901
RG13/2997 82 20
Leicester Formerly St Margaret, Leicestershire
23 Roslyn Street

William Fox, head, 35, Hosiery Hand (frame work), b. Leicester
Harriett, wife, 35, Shoe Machinist, b. do.

I can't see Florence elsewhere. She might be this girl:
Birth Florence Hannah Fox, Jun 1888, Leicester 7a 279
Death Florence Hannah Fox age 10, Mar 1889 Leicester 7a 132
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: Tati on Sunday 01 May 11 20:14 BST (UK)
And here he is in 1881, staying it seems with his older brother George:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0d17/

Just wanted to add
and now we also have another brother listed as "Thomas." [20 in 1851]
Aren't Thomas-age-20-in-1851 and George-age-17-in-1851 the brothers of the James you call James Fox(1)?
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: sweitz3 on Sunday 01 May 11 20:21 BST (UK)
Tati;

Yes, of course I have to verify and will.  Taking all of your suggestions and moving forward.  I am trying to work out some details as to James.  Its noted that he's not listed in the census under Hannah Pole, but is listed under Caroline, [1871, at 9yrs].  So.........would he be Hannah's or Caroline's??

Told you I was slow......maybe this explains the change of address and the fact that some of the children stayed and some listed in the 1861 census are not in the 1871 census.  They were old enough to have moved on.....  Well I should have asked my Grandmother 20 years ago. :(

I will just have to follow each of the maternal lines till someone who knows more than I do, [that should be easy], fills in the blanks.   :P

Can I attach a photo to this post.  It makes it so much more fun when you can see these individuals.

Thanks
sweitz3
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: Tati on Sunday 01 May 11 20:34 BST (UK)
So.........would he be Hannah's or Caroline's??
His birth certificate would tell for sure but my money is on Hannah/Ann, as the census was taken on 7th April and you say he was born 3 weeks later.

I even wondered if 'Caroline' was a mistake because FreeBMD doesn't seem to show a James Fox / Caroline marriage at all, but there's this death registration:
Dec 1872 Leicester 7a 133
Hannah Fox age 50
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: sweitz3 on Sunday 01 May 11 20:57 BST (UK)
Tati;

Yes...they are brothers.  I am now routing through all my Grandmother's notes.......she says something about this.   I have to print out the Family Generation List so I don't confuse the "James's".  Why didn't they put Sr., Jr. etc on these names??? Is it ok to do that in my genealogy program?  Is that appropriate?

I am the "third" Leo and I can tell you its was crazy when all 3 of us were in the room at the same time! Trying to keep the "James's" straight 150 years later is not easy.

Did you see my Post on "P.C. Stephens" from Leicester. My Grandmother Gertrude Fox's, [the youngest Fox], notes say "Bobby Stevens" a policeman on duty in Leicester.  England,s "heaviest constable"  .....at 23 stone.  She has saved his picture...he looks good in full uniform.   Is there anybody in Leicester looking for him? I could scan this for them.

Also.....all the Fox's we are speaking about are over here and buried together.  All but Florrie Fox,-  B. 11/22/1894 in Leciester and died 01/10/1896.  I think she is in the Welford Road cemetery.
 
Are there any Fox relations still in Leicester?



Title: Re: Fox's from Leicestershire - 1860's
Post by: Mike from Leicester on Sunday 01 May 11 21:20 BST (UK)
Greeting’s …Folks.

Confirmation of Burial details for Florence Hannah Fox. :~

Welford Road Cemetery. Leicester.

Plot No;. U.S. 2897.

S   2897   C   Fitchett   Frank   1876   Nov   27   3   
Curzon Street   Saint Margaret   37325

S   2897   C   Dixon   Alfred   1891   Mar   31   56   
Belgrave Gate   Saint Margaret   67867

S   2897   C   Dixon   Hannah   1891   Jun   2   54   
Belgrave Gate   Saint Margaret   68381

S   2897   C   Thompson   Mary Ann   1898   Jan   25   34   
Southampton Street   Leicester   82578

S   2897   C   Fox   Florence Hannah   1899   Jan   18   Aged.10   
Gartree Street   Leicester   84720

S   2897   F   Barker   Selina Phipps   1945   Jan   12   68   
Rest Home, 348 Aylestone Road / 108 East Park Road   Leicester   128962
 
All but Barker were interned into a “ Common Plot.”

1872.

St: Michael’s & All Angels Parish Church. THURMASTON.
Parish Burial Register No’. 739.

Hannah Fox.
Abode. …Leicester.
30th. December.
Aged. ….50.

MIKE. ……
Title: Re: Fox's from Leicestershire - 1860's
Post by: Mike from Leicester on Sunday 01 May 11 21:35 BST (UK)
Greeting’s …Folks.

Confirmation of Burial details for Florrrie  Fox. :~

Welford Road Cemetery. Leicester.

Plot. No’. U.O. 1133.

O   1133   C   Forman   James   1856   Nov   11   68   
Leicester Union House   Saint Margaret   4421

O   1133   C   White   ---   1856   Nov   11   Stbn   
Bath Lane   Saint Nicholas   4425

O   1133   C   Stirk   Ernest   1880   Jan   3   2   
Birstall Street   Saint Margaret   43613

O   1133   C   Stirk   Elizabeth   1884   May   3   39   
Birstall Street   Saint Margaret   53004

O   1133   C   Baker   Ann   1893   Oct   18   40   
Leicester Union House   Saint George   73631

O   1133   C   Fox   Florrie   1896   Jan   13   13mths   
Laxton Street   Saint Mary   78165

MIKE. ……
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: sweitz3 on Sunday 01 May 11 21:55 BST (UK)
Blimey!   

There's Florrie!
115 years later.

Thank You Mike!
sweitz3
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: sweitz3 on Sunday 01 May 11 22:08 BST (UK)
Tati & Mike;

Thank You.
What is a "common plot".  
I see the Family's are the Dixon's....there should be some Weston's too!  
The Fox's, Grant's, Dixon's, Weston's, and Cooper's did everything together.
I am not sure of the bonds but it seems to be related to the work!

Thank You Again,
Sweitz3
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: Mike from Leicester on Sunday 01 May 11 22:26 BST (UK)
Greeting’s …Folks.

Confirmation of Burial details for P C John William STEPHENS  :~

Welford Road Cemetery. Leicester.

Plot. No’. C.O. 395
.

O   395   F   Barker   Thomas   1895   Oct   21   61   
Chatham Street   Saint George   38027


O   395   F   Stephens   John William   1908   Apr   8   Aged.47   
84 Cobden Street   Leicester   51121

O   395   F   Barker   Sarah   1910   Feb   1   76   
Cattle Market Cottages   Leicester   52166

O   395   F   Barker   Sarah Elizabeth   1915   Nov   4   19   
77 Warwick Street   Leicester   55630

O   395   F   Payne   Martha Elizabeth   1936   Sep   30   81   
2 Swain Street / 77 Warwick Street   Leicester   66260

He was 24 Stone at Death…..

Try this link for details of Police Constable John William Stephens
Scroll right down for his full history :~

http://www.soldiersofthequeen.com/page12t-PCStephensMemorialPostCard.html

MIKE. ……
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: Mike from Leicester on Sunday 01 May 11 22:33 BST (UK)
Greeting’s …Folks.

Re :~ “ Common Plot “ Indicated by the……. C

This is were there was NO lease take out by Family to insure only Family members use the plot
Therefore the Cemetery could use it for any one

F....... Would mean ...." Freehold Plot "
This is were Family has take out a lease for any time between 5 ~ 100 years.

MIKE. ……
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: sweitz3 on Sunday 01 May 11 23:03 BST (UK)
Tati;

Here's a picture of Elizabeth Grant Fox my Great Grandmother, - and my Grandmother " Gertrude Elizabeth Fox,"  [ B. 3/24/1902] and Ethel May [B. 5/23/1897], we just called her "Aunt May".  My Grandmother is on the right.   I kept the Family list attached so everybody could meet some of the Fox's and figure out the order.


Grandmother, Gertrude Elizabeth Fox's Family List:

Father: James Fox, [April 30, 1861]  James Fox & Hannah Pole
Mother: Elizabeth Grant, [October 24, 1866] Arthur Grant & Charlotte Weston

Children:   
Hanna Elizabeth - B. 01/24/1887  Married Harry Cooper
Priscilla - B. 1/26/1998 
James Fox, Jr. - B. 1/27/1891
Thomas Fox - B. 11/27/1892
Florrie Fox - B. 11/22/1894 Leicester - Florrie died January 10, 1896 Leicester
Ethel May - B. 5/23/1897
Edith Elsie - B. 6/18/1899



Sweitz3

Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: sweitz3 on Sunday 01 May 11 23:12 BST (UK)
Tati & Mike;

Here's my Grandmother - "Gertrude Fox" & her sister "May Fox".  My Grandmother is on the left....she's got glasses now!
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: sweitz3 on Sunday 01 May 11 23:24 BST (UK)
Also, I just posted "Edna Walker" for the "Walkers" & "Coopers" lists.
Edna is really young in the picture, but she takes a good picture!

My Grandmother says - "Edna Walker" - "Aunt Charlotte's Daughter."

So I am not sure but that's maybe my Gr-Grandmother's - Sister's - Daughter???
My Gr-Gr-Aunt??

Let me know if I got that right..........

Sweitz3
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: Tati on Monday 02 May 11 08:44 BST (UK)
Good morning both  :)

Lovely to see the pics! I hope they ring a bell with someone.

Here are George's (James 1862's brother) details in case you're interested

George - link to 1881 census given earlier.

1891
RG12/2524 64 10
St Margaret, Leicestershire 
36 East Street

George Fox, head, 40, Framework Knitter, b. Thurmaston
Mary A, wife, 39, b. Melton
Gertrude, dau, 9, scholar, b. Leicester
Lilly, dau, 4, scholar, b. do.
James, boarder, mar, 72, Framework Knitter, b. Thurmaston
George C Holland, boarder, s, 30, Bricklayer's Labourer, b. Derbyshire

1901
RG13/2997 76 8
Leicester Formerly St Margaret
16 Chandos Street

George Fox, head, mar, 51, Hosiery Trade (employer), b. Thurmaston
Gertrude, dau, 19, Tailoress, b. Leicester
Lily, dau, 14, Corset Warehouse, b. do.

Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: Tati on Monday 02 May 11 08:54 BST (UK)
This looks like James 1862's sister Priscilla:

Marriage Jun 1887 Leicester 7a 369
Priscilla Fox to either Michael Duggan or George Henry Matthews

1891
RG12/2529 18 30
St Margaret, Leicestershire
22 Richard St
4 rooms occupied

George Matthews, head, 35, Shoe Laster
Priscilla, wife, 34
Priscilla, dau, 3
Harry, son, 2

All born Leicester (Thurmaston)


1901
RG13/3001 37 29
Leicester Formerly West Humberstone
80 Uppingham Rd

George H Matthews, head, 45, Foreman Shoe Trade, b. Leicester
Priscilla, wife, 44, b. Thurmaston
Harry, son, 12, b. Leicester
Priscilla, dau, 13, b. do.
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: sweitz3 on Monday 02 May 11 13:00 BST (UK)
Good Morning!

Thank you for this new information.  I will figure it out to day and be back to everyone in a few hours.

sweitz3
Title: Re: Fox's from Leciestershire - 1860's
Post by: Danone on Sunday 05 February 12 13:36 GMT (UK)
 :) :) :)Hi spatts
charlotte ada walker was josephs dau she married john henry baileyfeb1907 he was aged 20 bac st johns terr whitwick married in st andrews church after banns  john father miner
charlotte ada walker aged 18 spinster  st john terr whitwick father joseph walker  miner
married in the parish church
according to the rites and ceremonies  of the est church
edwin .s. crue
vicar
marriage in the presents of herbert page
elsie bailey

 
 

frederick jones age 23 bac miner  main street swannington  father mark jones  miner

hannah page age 21 -- st marys terr thringstone  father herbert page  collier banksmen
married 23 of feb 1918  in the parish church of whitwick st andrews  whitwick in the countyof leicester
marriage in the presents of  herbert page
elsie page
married after banns by me
cheverton shrewbury
my gran vera elizabeth page baptised 1915 june 27th father herbertpage =elizabeth ann page  st andrew s whitwick
st marys tee
fatherminer cheverton shrewsbury vicar


banns of marriage between
john Hallam of this parishof whitwick
and Sarah walker both of this parish
married in tthis church by banns
this 26th day of dec in the year 1811 by me D hams vicar
this marriage was solemized between us
john Hallam
sarah walker
marriage in the presents of  ann walker
jas wright
Danone