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Family History Documents and Artefacts => Graveyards and Gravestones => Topic started by: mandyjf on Sunday 01 May 11 00:07 BST (UK)
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Who do gravestones belong to? I was wondering about the stones removed from very old graves and what happened to them. I saw one of an ancestor cast to one side in a graveyard in Grimsby, and thought it would be so sad if it was just 'thrown away'.
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Why don't you contact whoever administers the graveyard, and ask them?
Dawn M
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My first job, over 50 years ago, was working in the offices of the local council and as such I had a marginal involvement in the administration of the town cemetery.
At that time, in that place, it was a condition that the family had to purchase the grave before they could erect any headstone or monument. I have the deeds of the grave of my grandparents in a cemetery elsewhere where this was also a requirement.
However the burial authority does have the right, after due process and notice, to remove headstones and flatten areas of the cemetery that have been unused, and often neglected, for a great number of years. This is usually to facilitate maintenance and generally tidy the place up. Headstones are often repositioned around the periphery.
I have reason to believe that a similar facility exists in respect of churchyards.
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Hello Mandyjf,the grave is normally owned by the family,if a memorial stone is leaning or in a state of possible danger to the public it will be laid down,this is in a municipal cemetery,in a church cemetery they are some times moved to the perimeter walls again for the same reason.in a municipal cemetery if none of your family already have ownership, it should be possible for you to take ownership of the grave,this is free of charge as the grave will have been paid for in the past,all you need to do is contact the local authority's.Then it should be possible to have the memorial stone re erected.
Hope this is of some help.
Regards Diarmuid.
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In churchyards where a memorial becomes dangerous or derelict or if space is required for a new grave a faculty may be applied for to remove (or re-siting) of the memorial. This may be on the grave below frost level to protect the inscription, except of necessity the stone should not be removed from the churchyard.
Before any memorial is removed an attempt should be made to locate the current owner and he/she must be given the opportunity to remove the memorial.
In all cases a recording of the gravestone original location, inscription and method of disposal should be made and sent to the local records office.
This is one reason why family historians are advised to sign the church visitors book and give brief details of ancestors buried in the churchyard.
Cheers
Guy
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Hi, I have found the grave of my Great grandparents, but there is no longer a grave stone. I would like to know if i would be able to put a memorial vase on the grave, so that i could leave flowers, or would i need permission first. I have the same problem with my Grandads grave, but that is in a small churchyard. Would they let me put anything on the grave there. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help. Regards Maxine
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You must contact whoever administers the graveyard,maybe the local council.In the case of a churchyard,maybe the person to contact is the vicar of the parish.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I think in some places grave plots are leased, not owned. If we all owned 2 square metres of land in perpetuity, the world would be full of gravestones within 500 years, and there would be no room for the living. It's so sad to wander round graveyards and see the tombstones that are less than 200 years old, but which are unkempt, unvisited and unknown.
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Hi all,
If you had an ancestor [in this case my g.g.g.aunt - blood relative] who has been buried in a 'family' grave - alone - is it possible to 'claim' the grave and ask to be buried in the same grave?
Elaine
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Hi all,
If you had an ancestor [in this case my g.g.g.aunt - blood relative] who has been buried in a 'family' grave - alone - is it possible to 'claim' the grave and ask to be buried in the same grave?
Elaine
It depends on the circumstances, the basic answer should be no, but some vicars will allowit to happen.
If the grave plot is an old one bought when "in perpetuity" meant forever then the person who owns the plot is the person who inherited in the same order as any other land.
However overtime the meaning of "in perpetuity" changed from forever, to 100 years, to 50 years and now means as little as 28 years.
Cheers
Guy
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I think in some places grave plots are leased, not owned. If we all owned 2 square metres of land in perpetuity, the world would be full of gravestones within 500 years, and there would be no room for the living. It's so sad to wander round graveyards and see the tombstones that are less than 200 years old, but which are unkempt, unvisited and unknown.
Agreed Nick, Sooner rather than later we, or our immediate descendants, will have to grasp the nettle of over crowded graveyards which was at least grasped by the Victorians. With the current population pressure on land people will either have to put their scruples away or be overwhelmed by the dead.
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Not sure if this is a Furphy, but years ago, in the 1960's coming from JFK Airport to Manhattan I was told when passing a Cemetery that since WWII new burials were made to have the Coffin standing up.
Sounded like a great sstory at the time.
Alan
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Yes, I believe that happens in parts of Italy (Sicily?) too. They also have the common sense to remove the bones from graves after a period and store them in what is known as an ossuary. Saves space, and is quite reverent. After all Christianity is about the resurrection of the spirit. If we all come back on judgement day in the flesh, it is going to be very very crowded.
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Hi Guy,
You said that it depended upon the circumstances? [just in case your answer may be different!!?] the grave was bought by her brother's executors in 1906 and she was interred in 1947 aged 95. I have got to the end of the story regarding family wills yet - but I just thought that if there were closer interested family you would have thought that someone would have been buried in the grave by now?
The grave is in a municipal cemetary in 'company' land not council [dont know whether this makes any difference]
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Hi Guy,
You said that it depended upon the circumstances? [just in case your answer may be different!!?] the grave was bought by her brother's executors in 1906 and she was interred in 1947 aged 95. I have got to the end of the story regarding family wills yet - but I just thought that if there were closer interested family you would have thought that someone would have been buried in the grave by now?
The grave is in a municipal cemetary in 'company' land not council [dont know whether this makes any difference]
You will probably find that the burial plot comes under the remit of the Statutory Instrument 1977 No. 204 - The Local Authorities’ Cemeteries Order 1977
This basically restricts ownership to a maximum of 100 years.
The cemetery authority should have details of the ownership of the plot and may if they think you have a reasonable right allow you to take over the rights to the plot.
They may even ask that you re-purchase the plot.
However if the plot has rights under the Burial Act of 1852 then it could be owned in perpetuity and the Authority will not have the power to resell the plot.
I think it more likely that they will be amenable to your suggestion and allow you to purchase the plot for a limited number of burials.
Cheers
Guy
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Hi Guy,
Thanks for your reply.
This is gonna costs me buckets loads though isnt it??? ??? [Despite the family already buying the grave - they can charge me again?] I just thought - a family grave not full - burial in an historic cemetary - what more could a girl ask for?? ;) I had even talked myself into being buried rather than cemated just to be buried in an historic cemetary! [and this took some doing for me to decide :-\]
There seems to be an awful lot of money to be made through death! - about as much a through being a vet treating small domestic animals! I am definately in the wrong business!!
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Why not try for permission to have your ashes buried in the plot?
That may be a cheaper option.
It would still be worth discussing the matter with the cemetery authorities to see what your options are and the costs of each, you may be surprised.
Cheers
Guy
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That's a good suggestion Guy! I like that one and it is definitely worth looking into for our family!!
Wiggy
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Thanks Guy - that is a good idea. Thank you for your patience. :)
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If we all did that then no further land would be needed to disp[ose of the dead for a very long time.
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There's lots of information on the disposal of ashes here (http://www.scattering-ashes.co.uk/where-to-scatter/law-permission-policy-rules-regulations/) :)
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Useful, thanks Nick. I know a body can be willed for medical research. Can it be willed for archaeological research, e.g. for disposal in Bronze Age style cremation outdoor, or for iron Age Sky burial?
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That looks like a money making website to me!? - surely it makes much more sense to check out the local council's rules, regulations and fees for the disposal of ashes? You cant get away from the council fees with regard to a municipal cemetary?
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That looks like a money making website to me!?
Surely not ? Should I dial 999, or phone the CIA ? ;D
The bottom line is that there is virtually no health risk from the disposal of ashes (which is why the rivers authority don't care about you depositing ashes in the water). It's really only a matter of common sense, and there are lots of good common-sense ideas on the web page mentioned. The only likely objection will be in burial grounds attached to a place of worship, where it may be a requirement that some sort of religious service is performed. To be honest, given the state of many church graveyards, if someone 'fly-tipped' ashes when no-one was looking, few would be any the wiser ;)
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True Nick,regarding the conditions in churchyards to paraphrase a well known saying "people who live in graveyards shouldn't throw ashes" Spooky?
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lol - dont think the CIA would be interested, but MI5 might be?? :D