RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: MaggieTag on Saturday 30 April 11 12:06 BST (UK)
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Hi Rootschatters,
Would anyone have any further information on this family?
Robert Ballentine (c1801-1865) was a builder with premises at Ballymoney St, Ballymena. He left his property to his wife Mary, and on her death, to his son Robert a joiner who by the time the will was probated was living in Belfast. Robert jr also left a will detailing the property at Ballymoney St. His estate was left to his wife Eliza Jane who in turn left bequeathed to a daughter Jane, the estate I think then went to a brother of Janes, either John or Robert -(I'm finding it difficult to understand how the estate was passed down through the family - all the wills are on PRONI).
My interest is through another of Robert jr and Mary Elizas children - Daniel who was a carpenter (c1851-1933) who I believe was born Ballymena died Belfast.
If this family is familiar to anyone I'd be grateful for your comments also I'd appreciate thoughts on the wills.
Many thanks
Margaret
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What exactly sort of information are you looking for?
Here's Daniel Ballentine and family in 1911 living in Belfast- birthplaces give an indication when they probably moved to Belfast:
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Shankill/Agnes_Street/150213
There are lots of online resources such as directories but there's no point in posting details you've already found so you need to explain what you've found and what you are loioking for.
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Thank you Aghadowey,
I have the census information.
I would like to find more information on the family. Specifically on the marriages of Robert Sr and Robert Jr. Who their parents, siblings and wives were. Also information on the children of Robert Jr and Mary Eliza.
Also as stated in my previous post I find the wills made by the two Roberts and Mary Eliza confusing particularly regarding the dates of death vis a viz probate and exactly who were the beneficiaries.
And there is always a chance that these details may ring bells with another rootschater, now or in the future, who may also be researching this family.
Margaret
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My fathers first wife was Jane Ballentine, daughter of Daniel and Agnes Ballentine. In 1901 census they lived in Upper Glenfarne St Shankhill, Antrim.
Jane died in 1935. Do you have any further info about Jane?
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Hi pcesaruk,
Jane was born 19 June 1900 at 66 Upper Glenfarne Street.
The first of Daniel and Agnes children was also a Jane who was born 10 Dec 1880 in Larne she died of Peritonitis at Glenfarne St on 1/3/1900. This younger Jane was obviously named after her eldest sister who died 3 months before she was born.I have a lot of information about the Ballentine's which I'd be more than happy to share.
I would love to hear more about Jane and her later life.
Margaret
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Hi Margaret,
Thanks for the info, thats a lot more than I knew about her. After Jane died in 1935, my father came to England and eventually to Liverpool where he met and married my mother, they went on to have 3 children...Jane and James had no children. James, (my father) never spoke of his first wife other than she died in "tragic circumstances" and that possibly she was a singer.
I have just sent for their marriage and her death certificates so hopefully they will uncover some of the mystery.
Any more info you may come across would be appreciated,
Pete
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Hi Pete,
Glad I could help.
If you don't mind letting me know Jane's married name I'll see if I can unearth anything in our local NI records and from the family. I'm in touch with a lady in her 80's who is the daughter of Charles Ballentine who was the next eldest to Jane by 3 years -therefore Jane's niece. Isn't it a small world!
Margaret
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Hi Margaret,
That would be brilliant, thank you.
Jane married my father James Cesar, he lived in Agnes St, when he and Jane married I think they lived in Rutherglen St, I dont know the date of their marriage though.
Pete
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Pete,
I have sent you a personal message.
Margaret
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IAM researching my Grandfather Thomas Ballentine 24 April 1874 he lived in Larne on his marriage certificate his father was Daniel Ballentine but I can't find who his family was or where they were from would anyone help thanks Linda
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IAM researching my Grandfather Thomas Ballentine 24 April 1874 he lived in Larne on his marriage certificate his father was Daniel Ballentine but I can't find who his family was or where they were from would anyone help thanks Linda
So just to check, are you enquiring about the following Thomas with his first wife Margaret Armstrong in 1901?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Larne/Rope_Walk_Lane/996497/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10497/5823034.pdf (marriage)
And with second wife Maria Hull in 1911?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Larne/Drummond/195402/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1903/10243/5728063.pdf (marriage)
The obvious candidate for Thomas' father is the Daniel Ballentine who as a bachelor married Agnes Ferris in December 1878, but everything points towards Thomas being born before this marriage, so could that mean an illegitimate birth registered under the mother (ie. under an unknown surname)?
Where did you get the exact date of 24 April 1874 from?
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Thanks in all the census his birth year is 1874 I was told his birthday was 24 th April years ago but didn't know the date my granny was his 3 rd wife Margaret Jane Magee from Larne I can't find anything about him or where he came from or his parents or family I seen on your site someone ages ago was searching Ballentine and Ferris and hoped this was a connection thanks Linda
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Would you have the marriage certificate for Thomas Ballentine and my granny Maggie Jane Magee thanks
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...in all the census his birth year is 1874..
In the 1901 census, as quoted by gaffy (reply #10), his birth year was c1877.
Would you have the marriage certificate for Thomas Ballentine and my granny Maggie Jane Magee...
According to GRONI online (https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/), this was the marriage-
Thomas Ballantyne Magee 3rd October 1923 Larne
Margt. Magee Ballantyne 3rd October 1923 Larne
For 1922 and later you need to check GRONI's database but births less than 100 years old, marriages less than 75 years and deaths less than 50 years will not be available online there.
You can register on GRONI (free) then purchase a few credits to do full searches, view certificates, etc. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to view a certificate.
Good luck :)
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Thank you
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... I seen on your site someone ages ago was searching Ballentine and Ferris and hoped this was a connection thanks Linda
I think there may well be a connection to Daniel Ballentine, but not to Agnes Ferris. The reality is that the forename / surname combination of Daniel Ballentine (and spelling variants) was exceedingly rare, for example, there were only 3 of them in the whole of the 1901 Ireland census. Factor in that Thomas consistently described his father as a carpenter, and the Daniel Ballentine of Larne who married Agnes Ferris of Larne in 1878 (they only later moved to Belfast) looks like a very strong possibility as the father of Thomas.
Daniel Ballentine was around 27 years old when he married Agnes, she was a good bit younger (I'm suspicious of her 'full' age in the 1878 marriage record). I checked for an illegitimate son named Thomas Ferris or 'Unnamed' Ferris born to Agnes before that 1878 marriage and couldn't find one. Which leaves open the possibility that Daniel had a son Thomas with another woman before his first marriage in 1878, the problem of course being that without knowing the woman's surname, how do you find the birth (which it would be registered under) or know for certain that it's him if you do find a possible birth?
I also checked newspapers for any leads on Thomas. What little there was related to him, for example the death notices for his 3rd wife Margaret Jane in 1977, for Thomas himself in 1961 and for his second wife Maria in 1923 (as well as the newspaper coverage of her death at Drummond Street in Larne, due to drinking methylated spirits) didn't offer up any clues.
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Thanks he probably had a different mother I have been searching for a birth certificate or anything about him but never found anything don't know where he came from or about his family
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I would like to find out if poss if Daniel Ballentine was my grandfathers parent it looks like my Granda Thomas Ballentine was born 1877 don't know where as he married 3 times it gives Billy Bushmills for 1 st marriage and Larne for his other 2 marriages he lived in Larne until he died 1961
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I would like to find out if poss if Daniel Ballentine was my grandfathers parent it looks like my Granda Thomas Ballentine was born 1877 don't know where as he married 3 times it gives Billy Bushmills for 1 st marriage and Larne for his other 2 marriages he lived in Larne until he died 1961
Was Thomas' first marriage not the one to Margaret Armstrong that I posted above at reply #10? That marriage took place at Cairncastle Church of Ireland, just north of Larne and Thomas' residence was given as 'Ballysnodd', which is just south of Larne:
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/belfast-lower/inver/kilwaughter/ballysnod/
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I would like to find out if poss if Daniel Ballentine was my grandfathers parent it looks like my Granda Thomas Ballentine was born 1877 don't know where as he married 3 times it gives Billy Bushmills for 1 st marriage and Larne for his other 2 marriages he lived in Larne until he died 1961
As gaffy quoted in reply #10, Thomas's second wife was Maria Hull (marriage 1903). His father was Daniel Ballintine, a carpenter.
Have you purchased, or hold the marriage record for Thomas in 1923 when he married Margaret Magee (reply #13)? His father should be named in col 8 with name and surname and (in col 9) his father's rank or profession.
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Yes def I researched Ballysnodd as I live near it but nothing has come up
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I'm looking for my Grandfathers birth family and his mother my grandfather has named Daniel Ballentine a carpenter born 1851 in Billy Bushmills as his father on his 3 marriage certificates but I can't find a birth certificate for Thomas Ballentine/Ballantine born 1874-1877 thanks
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I'm looking for my Grandfathers birth family and his mother my grandfather has named Daniel Ballentine a carpenter born 1851 in Billy Bushmills as his father on his 3 marriage certificates but I can't find a birth certificate for Thomas Ballentine/Ballantine born 1874-1877 thanks
Possibly Thomas was illegitimate and birth registered under his mother's surname.
Daniel Ballentine, carpenter, married 1878 to Agnes Ferris.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1878/11116/8069039.pdf
Is this your Thomas Ballentine?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1896/10497/5823034.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Larne/Rope_Walk_Lane/996497/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Larne/Drummond/195402/
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A couple of URL's.
Jane married my father James Cesar, he lived in Agnes St, when he and Jane married I think they lived in Rutherglen St, I dont know the date of their marriage though.
Marriage - Jane Ballintine to James Cesar - 21 September 1927 Belfast.
GRONI https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk/
Jane was born 19 June 1900 at 66 Upper Glenfarne Street.
Jane Ballentine born 10 June 1900. MMN Ferres
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01988/1765239.pdf
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I really should have read the previous page of this thread so I didn't waste my time repeating what has already been posted for you :-\
As mentioned several times now, Daniel Ballentine married Agnes Ferris in 1878. The 1911 census says they had 12 children which is consistent with the birth registered to the couple-
Jane (10 Dec.1880), Agnes (20 Aug.1882), Robert (19 July 1884), William F. (21 June 1886), Mary (24 June 1888), Catherine (18 Aug.1890), Ellen (23 Apr.1893), Daniel (27 July 1895), Charles Ferris (21 Dec.1897), Jane (10 June 1900), Mary Eliza (11 Nov.1902), Rachel Annie (12 Jan.1905).
There is NO birth of a Thomas anyone born 24 Apr.1874 in Larne registration dist. You can check other years yourself on Irish Genealogy. If you haven't done so already it would be worth checking local churches for a baptism in case the father is named.
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I already several times have said I know about Daniel Ballentine and Jane Ferris which I'm not asking about as it is after my grandfathers birth u know about their marriage and all of their 12 children my grandfather is not one of them I'm trying to research where Daniel lived in Larne before his marriage did he live at home and did his parents have servants how long did he live in Larne I know all about his marriage 1878 and his wife and their children which I'm not researching at all I'm trying to establish about Daniel prior to his marriage
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I already several times have said I know about Daniel Ballentine and Jane Ferris which I'm not asking about as it is after my grandfathers birth u know about their marriage and all of their 12 children my grandfather is not one of them I'm trying to research where Daniel lived in Larne before his marriage did he live at home and did his parents have servants how long did he live in Larne I know all about his marriage 1878 and his wife and their children which I'm not researching at all I'm trying to establish about Daniel prior to his marriage
You've said lots of things which conflict with a) what you've said previously and b) with facts.
Why on earth would you think his parents had servants?
Added- I started out from this other thread but then you posted the reply on this one-
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=355039.msg7573052#msg7573052
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Daniel and his father were carpenters and as I have been researching Larne around the 1874 onwards there are alot of families in the area that had servants I saw on one census a Ballantine family in Kilwaughter had servants
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Having servants wasn't always the same as it is now. Many, many families employed farm servants, house maids, etc. but it doesn't mean that they were well-to-do. My great-grandmother's family were farmers and they always employed someone to help work the housework- usually a Catholic girl who didn't mind working on the Sabbath to prepare meals.
Houston Ballantine in 1901 census had a female servant-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Kilwaughter/Headwood/995100/
In 1901 same servant in the household-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Kilwaughter/Headwood/195167/
His house had 2 rooms- the female servant may or may not have been is a relationship with him-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001559638/
You would be better concentrating on finding Daniel's birth so you can start tracing his mother. Baptism, school records, newspaper articles, etc. might help find details of his earlier life before first marriage.
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Ok thanks