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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: jancis on Saturday 30 April 11 10:38 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
Can anyone make any suggestions that may help solve this puzzle.
On my tree I have Eliza Squire, b 20.12.1827(verified from IGI, The Deanery of Christianity and census returns). She was born in Heavitree to George Squire and Charity Luxton.
Eliza was christened in Heavitree on 6.01.1828.
I have her in the 1851 census (HO107/1869, f298 p30) as a visitor in the house of Robert Lendon. (Robert's wife Elizabeth was a cousin to Eliza). Eliza is listed as a servant.
By the 1861 census Eliza is living at 18 Lodge Road, Marylebone and listed as 'prorietor'. The houses in Lodge road were quite substantial. The artist Landseer once lived in the house next door.
With Eliza in the house was Louise Laycock, servant, 1841, Paddington.
In the 1871 census Eliza is still living at the house 18 Lodge Road, Marylebone, by now living off the 'interest of money'. With her are George Butler her nephew and Eliza Frederika Butler her niece (and my GGGrandmother).
I have her in 1875 as a witness at the wedding of John Squire Butler (nephew).
In the 1881 census, Eliza (Squire?) is shown as Eliza Seymour - Born in Heavitree, Devon, unmarried (so she didn't change her name by marriage), still living off dividends and still with Eliza Frederika Butler (now married so Cook), her niece. There was also a visitor at the house - Francis Zacci unm, and my infant GGgrandmother Daisy plus Mary M'Donol, servant. (My great gran used to say she was brought up having servants).
In 1891 it gets worse. The head of houeshold is now Eugenie Seymore, widow, born in Devonshire, living on own means.
With her are George Griffin Cook, Eliza Cook (GGparents), Daisy and Ada Cook (their daughters) and an illegible domestic servant.
I can find no record of a marriage for Eugenie + Seymour/Seymore, no death for a Eugenie Seymore, and no record of her at all on either side of the '91.
Nor can I find Eliza Squire anywhere in '91.
By 1901 she (if this is all one person) is back to Eliza Squire, still head of the household, now aged 73, and the family have moved to 64 Mortimer Road, Willesden. Eliza gives her birthplace as Torquay, Devon. Her status is still unmarried.
In 1911 census George Cook is now styled head, buy 84 year old aunt Eliza Squire is a member of the household, living on private means and single.
Eliza died on 5th Jan 1913 and is buried in Hampstead cemetery. Her estate went to probate and was valued at £407.1.11 (including monies from Railway shares and from the sale of 64 Mortimer Road.
Ok, that was rather a long life history, but my problem is who, how and why do we suddenly get Seymour/Seymore, and even more so where does Eugenie fit in?
I strongly suspect that this is all the same person, but can anyone throw any light on this mystery?
Thanks
Jill
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Hmm that is quite a puzzle! Do you have Eliza Squire's death certificate? That might shed some light, who was the informant? Does the will give any clues in the beneficiaries?
Heather
p.s. I just looked up the 1891 census you mention, had no luck finding it under Eugenie Seymour's name so searched for the Cooks instead ... The Genealogist has the head of household transcribed as Engenie Jewbone!!!
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Hiya,
The beneficiaries under Eliza's will were my great gran (Daisy Louise Cook), her sister (Ada Mary Cook) and the third sister deceased (Annie), whose share defaulted by codicil to her mother Eliza frederika (nee Butler) to be administered for her by her brother John Butler. (Perhaps Eliza didn't like or didn't trust George Griffin Cook, Elizas husband).
Jill
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Oh I see, I was hoping there'd be a Seymour in there or some other clue!
Heather
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Hi,
Bit off on a tangent, but might be a clue to a change of fortunes for Eliza and family circa 1905 when the 'Maida Vale Investment and Advance Company' was wound up by John Squire Butler and another owing to its 'state of affairs': http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/27850/pages/7360
Regards
Rob
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Hi Jill
Welcome to Rootschat :D
It doesn't help solve the mystery but she first appears as Seymour in 1861 rather than 81 - so if there was a change of fortune that maybe lead to her name change it would be prior to 61. Though if that was the case why did she change back in 71 ???
I'm not being terribly helpful
Jan ;)
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Hello again, and thanks for the welcome :)
Rob, a little light I suspect. I had never found that liquidation report so kudos to you and many thanks indeed! I see a new avenue of investigation appearing :)
That there was a change in famly fortunes I have little doubt - in fact changes both ways.
George Squire and Charity Luxton (parents of the mysterious Eliza) both died in Heavitree Workhouse, and Eliza was a servant. Within ten years she has acquired private means, shares giving her an annuity, and a substantial property in London.
Then suddenly between 1891 and 1901 the family are living in Willesden in a much less salubrious area, a less well appointed house, and the servant is no more.
The middle daughter of George Griffin Cook and Eliza Butler (Annie Beatrice Maud Cook) was given (fostered? adopted out?) to John Squire Butler and lived as Annie Butler until her death from TB in 1909.
On the marriage cert. of the eldest daughter (my great gran) Daisy Cook, George Griffin Cook's occupation is 'gentleman', yet by the 1901 census he is a builders labourer - quite a downturn!
On the death cert of Annie Cook (butler) in 1909 he had become a labourer at the gas works, and remained with the Gas LIght and Coke Company. He is recorded as labourer (gas works) on his death cert 1927.
And you are right too Jan, Eliza changes her name between census returns several times, and at successive censuses has a stream of nephews and nieces living with her.
One avenue I have not yet been able to explore is whether Charity Luxton had the name Seymour in her lineage, since I have not yet found her birth record. All I know is she lived in Heavitree, Exeter, Devon.
regards
Jill
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It is all very strange, but having looked at the census entries I would say she is the same person throughout - her nieces and nephews and consistency of address would seem to confirm this. By the way have you pinned her down in 1841?
Jan ;)
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Hi Jen,
No I have not found Eliza in the 1841. There are a few candidates, but none that I can be certain are the right one.
I do know that her mother, Charity, had died in 1938, so it is possible that Eliza had gone into service somewhereby then.
Jill
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I wonder if it is a transcription problem, but the only similarity seems to be that both surnames start with S. What ages were shown in 1881 and 1891?
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In 1851, the decade before Eliza was at 18 Lodge Rd, the house seems to have been a lodging house, so perhaps not as posh as it appeared at first sight.
It is possible that Eliza was a servant to someone who left her some money in their will - have you looked when the Landers died and whether they left wills?
It is also possible that Eliza was mistress/lover of someone called Seymour who gave her or left her some money
The fact that George Griffin Cook's occupation is gentleman on the wedding cert may simply mean that he was not working at that time or maybe Daisy Cook said he was a gentleman to elevate her status - no-one ever checked what was recorded on marriage certs.
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I have checked the transcriptions and they seem fine.
The ages show some 'creative licence' however:
1851 - Eliza Squire, unmarried, 23
1861- Eliza Seymour, unmarried, 33
1871- Eliza Squire, unmarried, 42
1881- Eliza Seymour, unmarried, 48
1891- M. Eugenie Seymour, widow, 63
1901- Eliza Squire, unmarried, 73
1911 - Eliza Squire, unmarried, 84
If M Eugenie Seymour (1891 census) is a different person, then I am unable to find Eliza Squire in 1891, and Eugenie comes from the same birthplace as Eliza Squire, and is also aunt to Eliza Frederika Butler.
I remain perplexed!
Jill
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Alpinecottage,
Perhaps Eliza did go into the lodging house trade. The fact that in the first census at LOdge Road she is 'proprietor' suggests that she kept an establishment of sorts.
Charles Booth wrote about Lodge Road that some of the houses here and in North Bank had been inhabited for years by prostitutes, one or two to a house, particularly at the east end, though Lodge Road was more respectable than North Bank.
Perhaps there was a Mr Seymour who provided the means for Eliza/Eugenie to live in such a manner as to provide lodgings for all these nieces and nephews...
Jill
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Since you have mentioned prostitutes, and "boarding house" was often a euphenism, I did wonder if M Eugenie Seymour was her...hmm...business name, M standing for Madame :-\ (apologies for casting aspersions on your ancestors!)
I tried to look on historicaldirectories.org last night to see who was living at Lodge Rd between the censuses, but the site wasn't working. It may be useful to have a look when it's back up again.
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Remember too that at that time the Empress Eugenie of France was living in Britain as a refugee. Could it be that Eugenie Seymour with the same Christian name was thought more "upmarket" than plain Eliza?
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I dont have any direct interest in this family, but your posts caught our attention as we have an ancestor born 1828, Jane JOHNS nee COOK, living Saltash Cornwall on every census from 1851, listed as a widow, and having children (my gg grandma in 1854). She married in 1846, and I believe was widowed in 1850. Jane takes charge in 1861 of an Adelaide COOK born 1856 in the Paddington/Marylebone area (possibly Albert Terrace). There have long been stories about someone in this generation being a mistress in London, hence our interest in your story.
Looking at the census returns my attention was caught by M. Eugenie SEYMOUR's next door neighbour in 1891. He was Robert Richardson GARDENER, "living on MY own means"! Presumably he was the enumerator. Further investigation shows him listed in 1881 living on Grosvenor Sq, Robert RICHARDSON-GARDENER, Member of Parliament, and I believe in 1851 and 1861 he is Robert RICHARDSON student at Middle Temple(1851), and Barrister not practicing(1861).
Additionally there appears to be a split on this road of 'normal' families and occupations, and of young people in their 20's employing servants and working as artists/painters/ musicians.
Maybe this is of no relevance, but food for thought?
Mike
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I think that would be fairly typical of the area, regarding the MP living on his own means. At this time and until much later, there was no such thing as a Parliamentary salary, MPs were either of independent means or dependent on their sponsors for their livlihood.