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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: peter gerard flood on Thursday 28 April 11 07:32 BST (UK)
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I am searching for the death place and burial place and year of death of JAMES FLOOD husband of CATHERINE FLOOD who arrived with 3 children JOHN, THOMAS and BIDDY on the 600 ton Ship "ELPHISTONE" in SYDNEY on 5 October 1840 and then went on to live in CARCOAR SW of BLAYNEY for the next 60 years and had more boys there.
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Hi Peter
Nsw bdms have a James O P FLOOD....parents James and Marcella died in Carcoar 1893 (4643/1893 )
a James FLOOD parents James and Catherine 1895 in Balmain Sth ( 7711/1895 )
Thomas FLOOD... from Carcoar...died 1874 parents James and Catherine (4404/1874 )
William FLOOD of Carcoar parents James and Catherine.. 1866 ( 3834/1866 )
Patrick FLOOD of Blayney parents James and Catherine died 1928 ( 9100/1928 )
Are these your people ?
Is more..... NSW bdms are online....
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=births
Daizi
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These are relations but not the JAMES who was the father who died after 1891
STILL SEARCHING
There was another James and Catherine Flood around BALMAIN arrived after 1840
different family
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Would this be Catherine's death?
4827/1891 FLOOD CATHERINE UNKNOWN UNKNOWN CARCOAR
the 'unknown' is name of parents
Dawn M
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i have a death of a
Catherine Flood in Carcoar in 1898 ref 4827
or there is a
Catherine A Flood died in Carcoar in 1885 mothers name Agnes and fathers name Patrick ref 8156
the only James i could find was
James O P Flood died 1893 in Carcoar Fathers name was james mother name was Marcella ref 4643
are any of these the ones your chasing?
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There are some Carcoar transcripts at this site:
http://www.ozburials.com/CemsNSW/carcoar1.htm
with quite a few FLOODs but not your Catherine and James Flood.
Not clear whether these are only monumental inscriptions, or from a burial register.
Carcoar is not a huge place you know.
Dawn M
PS I would say the Catherine A Flood of Patrick and Agnes who died in Carcoar 1885 is probably a child of the Patrick who died at Blayney in 1928.
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Links to previous threads:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,429517.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,464674.0.html
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I don't have access to the details of NSW inquests, but there are two James FLOODs who appear on the indexes. If his death resulted in an inquest that may be why there is no death registration.
I just saw that that was mentioned on one of the previous posts ::)
Debra :)
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Some thoughts from me via clunky wifi connections so apologies for typos etc .... Rural and central west NSW records are oft in apparent disorder in the 1860s to pre WWI .... civil registrar positions were part timers and thus oft duties attached to court house/sherrif ...... oft the quarterly returnsdue to HO of NSW BDM seem to have been mised/overlooked etc ...... also in that era a Police Mag could issue an order to bury...... and sometimes none then followed up with the admin for d.c. reg...... Has anyone looked to probate packets NSWSRO etc or title deed transfers at Titles office sorry on this wifi reader I dont have my fav NSW sites noted Cheers JM fingers crossed
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Thanks,
James held several properties and a pub so there should be Probate and Transfers. And the report of an inquest.
I'll follow your advice and post when I find the details.
Many thanks Peter
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1 August 1891 Inquest re drowning at Farm Cove.... alas not your James Flood
The Inquests and Magisterial Inquiries 1891 are indexed in the NSW Govt Gazette and I read there that James FLOOD was aged 23, born in Ireland, found drowned in Sydney with cash of eightpence .... how sad .... but obviously not the James Flood that you are seeking.
Cheers, JM
EDIT TO ADD, I would think this d.c. ref would be for this James Flood
1283/1891 James Flood, no given names for his parents on the online index, registered at Sydney ....
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Many thanks, No in 1881 he would have been 71 years of age.
Still searching.
I will now check JAMES 1899 at Hurstville.
Will post result.
Many thanks
Peter :o
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Hi Peter
Nsw bdms have a James O P FLOOD....parents James and Marcella died in Carcoar 1893 (4643/1893 ) GRANDSON
a James FLOOD parents James and Catherine 1895 in Balmain Sth ( 7711/1895 ) DIFFERENT FAMILY
Thomas FLOOD... from Carcoar...died 1874 parents James and Catherine (4404/1874 ) FAMILY SON
William FLOOD of Carcoar parents James and Catherine.. 1866 ( 3834/1866 )FAMILY SON
Patrick FLOOD of Blayney parents James and Catherine died 1928 ( 9100/1928 ) YOUNGEST SON
Are these your people ? YES
Is more..... NSW bdms are online....
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=births
Daizi
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There are some Carcoar transcripts at this site:
http://www.ozburials.com/CemsNSW/carcoar1.htm
with quite a few FLOODs but not your Catherine and James Flood.
Not clear whether these are only monumental inscriptions, or from a burial register.
Carcoar is not a huge place you know.
Dawn M
PS I would say the Catherine A Flood of Patrick and Agnes who died in Carcoar 1885 is probably a child of the Patrick who died at Blayney in 1928.
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James death and burial remains a mystery.
Wife Catherine in recorded 1891 Census as head of house. Died soon after 1891, buried unmarked grave at Lyndhurst S of Carcoar.
I've tracked descendants of Son of James i.e. John to northern NSW and Qld
I've tracked descendants of Daughter Bridget to Sydney
I've tracked descendants of Son Patrick from Blayney to Sutherland then to Qld
I've tracked descendants of James' Brother Thomas Snr
I've tracked descendants from Son Thomas
Welcome to contact me for FAMILY HISTORY of JAMES AND CATHERINE FLOOD
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Hi peter, were you able to acess the probate packets and any other items that should have been left by james IE WILL?
Neil
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"....Catherine death certificate it states her as a married woman which indicates that James was still alive when Catherine died " (d. 1891)
Who is the informant for this death certificate please?
When is the last evidence you have of the existence of James Flood....birth of last child?
Where you have narrowed the death year to 1891-1903...what does 1903 refer to?.
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Yes is lists Catherine as Married Woman'
Informant JAMES Her Son of Wattle Vale Lyndhurst
Last evidence I can find for JAMES is Williams (James Son) Will where he lists his Father James as Exexutor 1866
On Thomas Snr he lists in 1883 a JAMES FLOOD farmer of Blayney Is this JAMES??????
In the 1891 Census Catherine wife of JAMES is listed as Head of House, a RICHARD was crossed out but I can't find
a Birth for Richard as a child of JAMES and CATHERINE
CATHERINE is buried at Lyndhurst in an unmarked grave.
JAMES erected headstones in Carcoar RC Cemetary for Bridget, Thomas Jnr and William.
One would think if he JAMES was alive he would have a headstone for his wife CATHERINE!!!!
I have records of the Hotels owned by JAMES but he sold them in the 1870s
ANY ASSISTANCE WOULD BE APPRECIATED, Thanks Peter
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Hi peter, were you able to acess the probate packets and any other items that should have been left by james IE WILL?
Neil
CAN'T LOCATE ANY WILL OR PROBATE FOR JAMES FLOOD b/ 1810 Ireland
I FOUND WILL OF JAMES SON WILLIAM and WILL OF THOMAS JAMES BROTHER but NO JAMES is recorded.
COULD IT BE HE RETURNED TO IRELAND and DIED there. LAST OPTION IS TO CHECK SHIPPING RECORDS out of AUSTRALIA
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1 August 1891 Inquest re drowning at Farm Cove.... alas not your James Flood
The Inquests and Magisterial Inquiries 1891 are indexed in the NSW Govt Gazette and I read there that James FLOOD was aged 23, born in Ireland, found drowned in Sydney with cash of eightpence .... how sad .... but obviously not the James Flood that you are seeking.
Cheers, JM
EDIT TO ADD, I would think this d.c. ref would be for this James Flood
1283/1891 James Flood, no given names for his parents on the online index, registered at Sydney ....
I checked and it was the young bloke, presumed drunk.. Not the free irish settler JAMES married to CATHERINE and lived at CARCOAR, KINGS PLAINS, BLAYNEY
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Hi peter, were you able to acess the probate packets and any other items that should have been left by james IE WILL?
Neil
CAN'T LOCATE ANY WILL OR PROBATE FOR JAMES FLOOD b/ 1810 Ireland
I FOUND WILL OF JAMES SON WILLIAM and WILL OF THOMAS JAMES BROTHER but NO JAMES is recorded.
COULD IT BE HE RETURNED TO IRELAND and DIED there. LAST OPTION IS TO CHECK SHIPPING RECORDS out of AUSTRALIA
????????? NEIL are oy a decendent of JAMES and CATHERINE??
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In the 1891 Census Catherine wife of JAMES is listed as Head of House, a RICHARD was crossed out but I can't find
a Birth for Richard as a child of JAMES and CATHERINE
Hi there,
What address for that Householder summary please?
Cheers, JM
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From your earlier enquiries (via links) you have brother Thomas arriving with James and family.
Have you followed Thomas's life to see if there is mention of brother James, maybe in a death notice for Thomas?.
From your other enquiry -
"....Catherine's death registration is no.04827/1891 parents not listed I know her parents names from other research I have"
What is your source that gives names for parents of Catherine, and could this information be known to husband James?.
Do you have a marriage certificate for James and Catherine....maybe with parents' names?
If her parent's names were known to husband James, and he was around when Catherine d. 1891, would you expect that those names would be recorded on the death certificate?
That doesn't have to be the case, of course...but I wonder if James might have left the family..before 1891...Catherine would still be a married woman for record.
And his whereabouts, or maybe death, are not known to his family?.
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In the 1891 Census Catherine wife of JAMES is listed as Head of House, a RICHARD was crossed out but I can't find
a Birth for Richard as a child of JAMES and CATHERINE
Hi there,
What address for that Householder summary please?
Cheers, JM
I recall it as Wattle Vile, Lyndhurst CARCOAR DISTRICT
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From your earlier enquiries (via links) you have brother Thomas arriving with James and family.
Have you followed Thomas's life to see if there is mention of brother James, maybe in a death notice for Thomas?.
From your other enquiry -
"....Catherine's death registration is no.04827/1891 parents not listed I know her parents names from other research I have"
What is your source that gives names for parents of Catherine, and could this information be known to husband James?.
JAMES WOULD HAVE KNOWN CATHERINE's PARENTS NAMES
Do you have a marriage certificate for James and Catherine....maybe with parents' names?
If her parent's names were known to husband James, and he was around when Catherine d. 1891, would you expect that those names would be recorded on the death certificate?
That doesn't have to be the case, of course...but I wonder if James might have left the family..before 1891...Catherine would still be a married woman for record.
And his whereabouts, or maybe death, are not known to his family?.
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From your earlier enquiries (via links) you have brother Thomas arriving with James and family.
Have you followed Thomas's life to see if there is mention of brother James, maybe in a death notice for Thomas?.
From your other enquiry -
"....Catherine's death registration is no.04827/1891 parents not listed I know her parents names from other research I have"
What is your source that gives names for parents of Catherine, and could this information be known to husband James?.
JAMES WOULD HAVE KNOWN CATHERINE's PARENTS NAMES
Do you have a marriage certificate for James and Catherine....maybe with parents' names?
If her parent's names were known to husband James, and he was around when Catherine d. 1891, would you expect that those names would be recorded on the death certificate?
That doesn't have to be the case, of course...but I wonder if James might have left the family..before 1891...Catherine would still be a married woman for record.
And his whereabouts, or maybe death, are not known to his family?.
THIS IS AN INCREASING POSSIBILITY
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From your earlier enquiries (via links) you have brother Thomas arriving with James and family.
Have you followed Thomas's life to see if there is mention of brother James, maybe in a death notice for Thomas?.
YES I HAVE THOMAS SNR history
From your other enquiry -
"....Catherine's death registration is no.04827/1891 parents not listed I know her parents names from other research I have"
What is your source that gives names for parents of Catherine, and could this information be known to husband James?.
JAMES WOULD HAVE KNOWN CATHERINE's PARENTS NAMES
Do you have a marriage certificate for James and Catherine....maybe with parents' names?
If her parent's names were known to husband James, and he was around when Catherine d. 1891, would you expect that those names would be recorded on the death certificate?
That doesn't have to be the case, of course...but I wonder if James might have left the family..before 1891...Catherine would still be a married woman for record.
And his whereabouts, or maybe death, are not known to his family?.
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Some of the 1891 NSW Census Householder Summaries are imaged and available at Ancestry, provided in Association with the NSW State Records.
It is my understanding that not all the Householder Returns survive. Does your copy of that 1891 record actually state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood?
Cheers, JM
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Some of the 1891 NSW Census Householder Summaries are imaged and available at Ancestry, provided in Association with the NSW State Records.
It is my understanding that not all the Householder Returns survive. Does your copy of that 1891 record actually state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood?
NO IT STATES SHE WAS HEAD OF HOUSE, THE FOLLOWING YEAR
HER DEATH CERTIFICATE STATES SHE WAS MARRIED
Cheers, JM
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Do you have the location for the property "Wattle Vale" ... would it be towards :
Mandurama
Neville
Garland
Nargong
Woodstock
Forest Reefs
or perhaps is it to the North, or the East, or the South, or the West of Lyndhurst ?
Cheers, JM
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Some thoughts
have you contacted the local newspapers currently circulating in that region, perhaps asking for help with this family
http://www.blayneychronicle.com.au/
And the local family history groups ... for example:
http://bathurstfhg.asn.au/index.shtml
http://cfhg.webs.com/
Cheers, JM
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Hi peter, no relation to family but spent a lot of time in that area. Did you know there is a Wattle Valley at Lyndhurst.........Melbourne!! At Mitcham where some of my family do come from.... :o
I believe the possibility that James was somehow estranged from the family and may have moved interstate or as you say poss Ireland. :(
Neil
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Some thoughts
have you contacted the local newspapers currently circulating in that region, perhaps asking for help with this family
http://www.blayneychronicle.com.au/
And the local family history groups ... for example:
http://bathurstfhg.asn.au/index.shtml
http://cfhg.webs.com/
Cheers, JM
THANKS FOR THIS LEAD AS AN OPTION. IN 2012 I will follow up.
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Re James FLOOD, James FLOOD junior, Richard FLOOD ....
Gleaned from the NSW ER 1878 Carcoar ELECTORATE,
Situated/Arising :
King’s Plains Creek, in the Carcoar POLICE DISTRICT
James Flood, qualified as a freeholder at King’s Plains Creek, resided at Five-mile Creek
Thomas Flood, qualified as a freeholder at King’s Plains Creek, resided at King’s Plains Creek
Situated/Arising :
King’s Creek in the Carcoar POLICE DISTRICT
Edward Flood, qualified as a freeholder at King’s Creek, resided in Sydney
Situated/Arising
Five-mile Creek in the Carcoar POLICE DISTRICT
James Flood, junior, qualified as a resident at Five-mile Creek
Richard Flood, qualified as a resident at Five-mile Creek
Patrick Flood, qualified as a resident at Five-mile Creek
Situated/Arising
Cowra, in the Cowra POLICE DISTRCT
Matthew Flood, qualified as a resident at Cowra
Situated/Arising
Shiel, in the Cowra POLICE DISTRICT
Thomas Flood, qualified as a resident at Shiel
Gleaned from the NSWER 1878 Bathurst ELECTORATE
Thomas W Flood, householder, Church-place (Bathurst)
Now, for the downside ..... While it may seem logical to assume that it was your James Flood residing at Five-mile Creek, and thus further assume that James junior, Patrick and Richard were at least some of his sons living there with him and that all four were aged over 21, in fact the only thing you can confirm is that James, James junior, Patrick and Richard were all at least 21 years of age, The Police (who were the enrolling officers) prepared the roll. It cannot actually be confirmed from any electoral roll that a person named on that roll was actually living at the address when the roll was printed. Electoral rolls do not offer any clues at all to show if a person is related to any other person. Females were not eligible to be included on these rolls.
PS, do you think Wattle Vile could actually be WATTLEVILLE .... reason :
NSWER1903 MACQUARIE Electorate
Polling place Lyndhurst
Thomas William FLOOD, labourer
There are others with that surname at that 1903 Polling place:
James, farmer at Limestone Creek,
James Joseph, a farmer at Limestone Creek
Mary, at her domestic duties, at Lyndhurst
Cheers, JM
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Some of the 1891 NSW Census Householder Summaries are imaged and available at Ancestry, provided in Association with the NSW State Records.
It is my understanding that not all the Householder Returns survive. Does your copy of that 1891 record actually state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood?
Cheers, JM
The 1891 record DOES NOT state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood
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Some of the 1891 NSW Census Householder Summaries are imaged and available at Ancestry, provided in Association with the NSW State Records.
It is my understanding that not all the Householder Returns survive. Does your copy of that 1891 record actually state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood?
Cheers, JM
The 1891 record DOES NOT state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood
BUT
The Death Certificate states MARRIED
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towards Mandurama I think
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Re James FLOOD, James FLOOD junior, Richard FLOOD ....
Gleaned from the NSW ER 1878 Carcoar ELECTORATE,
Situated/Arising :
King’s Plains Creek, in the Carcoar POLICE DISTRICT
James Flood, qualified as a freeholder at King’s Plains Creek, resided at Five-mile Creek
Thomas Flood, qualified as a freeholder at King’s Plains Creek, resided at King’s Plains Creek
Situated/Arising :
King’s Creek in the Carcoar POLICE DISTRICT
Edward Flood, qualified as a freeholder at King’s Creek, resided in Sydney
> The Bathurst Free Press and Mining Journal advertised on 14 April 1860
> “PUBLIC HOUSE
>
> TO LET. To let, the Shearers’ Arms, in the Township of Carcoar, at
> present occupied by Mr. James
>
> Flood. The house is in full trade and doing a good business; immediate
> possession can be given– the
>
> furniture to be taken at a valuation. Apply to Mr James Flood or B Simpson.”
Situated/Arising
Five-mile Creek in the Carcoar POLICE DISTRICT
James Flood, junior, qualified as a resident at Five-mile Creek
Richard Flood, qualified as a resident at Five-mile Creek
Patrick Flood, qualified as a resident at Five-mile Creek
Situated/Arising
Cowra, in the Cowra POLICE DISTRCT
Matthew Flood, qualified as a resident at Cowra
Situated/Arising
Shiel, in the Cowra POLICE DISTRICT
Thomas Flood, qualified as a resident at Shiel
Gleaned from the NSWER 1878 Bathurst ELECTORATE
Thomas W Flood, householder, Church-place (Bathurst)
Now, for the downside ..... While it may seem logical to assume that it was your James Flood residing at Five-mile Creek, and thus further assume that James junior, Patrick and Richard were at least some of his sons living there with him and that all four were aged over 21, in fact the only thing you can confirm is that James, James junior, Patrick and Richard were all at least 21 years of age, The Police (who were the enrolling officers) prepared the roll. It cannot actually be confirmed from any electoral roll that a person named on that roll was actually living at the address when the roll was printed. Electoral rolls do not offer any clues at all to show if a person is related to any other person. Females were not eligible to be included on these rolls.
PS, do you think Wattle Vile could actually be WATTLEVILLE .... reason :
NSWER1903 MACQUARIE Electorate
Polling place Lyndhurst
Thomas William FLOOD, labourer
There are others with that surname at that 1903 Polling place:
James, farmer at Limestone Creek,
James Joseph, a farmer at Limestone Creek
Mary, at her domestic duties, at Lyndhurst
Cheers, JM
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towards Mandurama I think
Subject: Location of FLOOD'S Rising Sun hotel
Dear Patrick,
From Thomas O’Shaughnessy’s account the “Rising Sun Hotel” is South West of Carcoar towards Cowra, I suggest 5 miles from Carcoar.
That would be about Mandurama crossing Mandurama Ponds, the only creek with water between Carcoar and Lyndhurst.
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Some of the 1891 NSW Census Householder Summaries are imaged and available at Ancestry, provided in Association with the NSW State Records.
It is my understanding that not all the Householder Returns survive. Does your copy of that 1891 record actually state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood?
Cheers, JM
The 1891 record DOES NOT state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood
I do have a record of the marriage of Catherine Mooney and James Flood on 05.05.1833. The only other details on the entry are that they were from Allen and the witnesses were Henry Dempsey and Catherine Ivory. Their children were as follows:
Bridget Flood, baptised on 18.05.1834
John Flood, baptisedon 06.04.1836
Thomas Flood, baptised 02.09.1838
Only the dates of Baptism were recorded but, as you know, babies were generally baptised within a day or two of birth at that time.
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Some of the 1891 NSW Census Householder Summaries are imaged and available at Ancestry, provided in Association with the NSW State Records.
It is my understanding that not all the Householder Returns survive. Does your copy of that 1891 record actually state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood?
Cheers, JM
HERITAGE
Founding Sisters at Lochinvar
MOTHER MARY IMELDA FLOOD Daughter of THOMAS JNR Son of JAMES AND CATHERINE
Catherine Flood, the eldest of the children of Thomas Flood and Julia Cullen, was born at Blayney in Western New South Wales in August 1862. In March 1881, she entered St Joseph's Convent Perthville, and was professed in January 1883. Later that year she was to leave the "Vale" as one of the four sisters from Perthville to make the foundation at Lochinvar. There she taught the junior classes in the school at Lochinvar till she was appointed superior of the new foundation at Quirindi in 1885. She was there in Quirindi till she was withdrawn to make another new foundation at Burwood in Newcastle in 1888.
In 1889 she was appointed Novice Mistress but in June 1890 she was appointed Sister Guardian, an office she held till June 1893. During her term as leader, foundations were made at Knockfin and Krambach. Eight sisters were professed and thirteen postulants entered. Courageously, she initiated a building program to provide an adequate and substantial Mother House for the congregation.
After resigning as sister guardian she went to Burwood and later to Largs. She was appointed congregational bursar in 1899. Her health began to fail and she was confined
The 1891 record DOES NOT state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood
I do have a record of the marriage of Catherine Mooney and James Flood on 05.05.1833. The only other details on the entry are that they were from Allen and the witnesses were Henry Dempsey and Catherine Ivory. Their children were as follows:
Bridget Flood, baptised on 18.05.1834
John Flood, baptisedon 06.04.1836
Thomas Flood, baptised 02.09.1838
Only the dates of Baptism were recorded but, as you know, babies were generally baptised within a day or two of birth at that time.
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Some of the 1891 NSW Census Householder Summaries are imaged and available at Ancestry, provided in Association with the NSW State Records.
It is my understanding that not all the Householder Returns survive. Does your copy of that 1891 record actually state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood?
Cheers, JM
HERITAGE
Founding Sisters at Lochinvar
MOTHER MARY IMELDA FLOOD Daughter of THOMAS JNR Son of JAMES AND CATHERINE
Catherine Flood, the eldest of the children of Thomas Flood and Julia Cullen, was born at Blayney in Western New South Wales in August 1862. In March 1881, she entered St Joseph's Convent Perthville, and was professed in January 1883. Later that year she was to leave the "Vale" as one of the four sisters from Perthville to make the foundation at Lochinvar. There she taught the junior classes in the school at Lochinvar till she was appointed superior of the new foundation at Quirindi in 1885. She was there in Quirindi till she was withdrawn to make another new foundation at Burwood in Newcastle in 1888.
In 1889 she was appointed Novice Mistress but in June 1890 she was appointed Sister Guardian, an office she held till June 1893. During her term as leader, foundations were made at Knockfin and Krambach. Eight sisters were professed and thirteen postulants entered. Courageously, she initiated a building program to provide an adequate and substantial Mother House for the congregation.
After resigning as sister guardian she went to Burwood and later to Largs. She was appointed congregational bursar in 1899. Her health began to fail and she was confined
The 1891 record DOES NOT state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood
I do have a record of the marriage of Catherine Mooney and James Flood on 05.05.1833. The only other details on the entry are that they were from Allen and the witnesses were Henry Dempsey and Catherine Ivory. Their children were as follows:
Bridget Flood, baptised on 18.05.1834
John Flood, baptisedon 06.04.1836
Thomas Flood, baptised 02.09.1838
Only the dates of Baptism were recorded but, as you know, babies were generally baptised within a day or two of birth at that time.
Subject: Re: Travellers Rest
Peter
Rising Sun - here are all the references I have to the "Rising Sun"
The Bathurst Free Press and Mining Journal advertised on 2 April 1862 “RACES, RACES will take place on Easter Monday The 21st of April, 1862, at Mr James Flood’s Rising Sun Inn between Carcoar and Cowra
1875 Had breakfast. Made another start and reached Carcoar at 3 o’clock. Rained all the way. We stayed at Fagan’s Royal Hotel all night. We started before daylight next morning and came to Flood’s ‘The Rising Sun’ for breakfast.
1875 Cowra. I got a fresh horse and went to work at Liscombe Pools the next day. The next morning I started and went to the ‘Rising Sun’ on the Carcoar road
Followed the Carcoar road nearly to the ‘Rising Sun’. Took the left hand track to Egan’s public house on the Carcoar and Canowindra road
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Some of the 1891 NSW Census Householder Summaries are imaged and available at Ancestry, provided in Association with the NSW State Records.
It is my understanding that not all the Householder Returns survive. Does your copy of that 1891 record actually state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood?
Cheers, JM
HERITAGE
Founding Sisters at Lochinvar
MOTHER MARY IMELDA FLOOD Daughter of THOMAS JNR Son of JAMES AND CATHERINE
Catherine Flood, the eldest of the children of Thomas Flood and Julia Cullen, was born at Blayney in Western New South Wales in August 1862. In March 1881, she entered St Joseph's Convent Perthville, and was professed in January 1883. Later that year she was to leave the "Vale" as one of the four sisters from Perthville to make the foundation at Lochinvar. There she taught the junior classes in the school at Lochinvar till she was appointed superior of the new foundation at Quirindi in 1885. She was there in Quirindi till she was withdrawn to make another new foundation at Burwood in Newcastle in 1888.
In 1889 she was appointed Novice Mistress but in June 1890 she was appointed Sister Guardian, an office she held till June 1893. During her term as leader, foundations were made at Knockfin and Krambach. Eight sisters were professed and thirteen postulants entered. Courageously, she initiated a building program to provide an adequate and substantial Mother House for the congregation.
After resigning as sister guardian she went to Burwood and later to Largs. She was appointed congregational bursar in 1899. Her health began to fail and she was confined
The 1891 record DOES NOT state that Catherine Flood was the wife of James Flood
I do have a record of the marriage of Catherine Mooney and James Flood on 05.05.1833. The only other details on the entry are that they were from Allen and the witnesses were Henry Dempsey and Catherine Ivory. Their children were as follows:
Bridget Flood, baptised on 18.05.1834
John Flood, baptisedon 06.04.1836
Thomas Flood, baptised 02.09.1838
Only the dates of Baptism were recorded but, as you know, babies were generally baptised within a day or two of birth at that time.
Subject: Re: Travellers Rest
Peter
Rising Sun - here are all the references I have to the "Rising Sun"
The Bathurst Free Press and Mining Journal advertised on 2 April 1862 “RACES, RACES will take place on Easter Monday The 21st of April, 1862, at Mr James Flood’s Rising Sun Inn between Carcoar and Cowra
1875 Had breakfast. Made another start and reached Carcoar at 3 o’clock. Rained all the way. We stayed at Fagan’s Royal Hotel all night. We started before daylight next morning and came to Flood’s ‘The Rising Sun’ for breakfast.
1875 Cowra. I got a fresh horse and went to work at Liscombe Pools the next day. The next morning I started and went to the ‘Rising Sun’ on the Carcoar road
Followed the Carcoar road nearly to the ‘Rising Sun’. Took the left hand track to Egan’s public house on the Carcoar and Canowindra road
Subject: RE: FW: Hotels of James Flood TRAVELLERS REST 1872
1. "Travellers Rest" Euroka, Carcoar District Licensing Year 1/7/1872 Govt Gazette 20/9/1872 p. 2409
2. that is after the RISING SUN, 1865-1868
3. Public House SHEARERS ARMS in Carcoar 1860, before the Rising Sun
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Hi again Peter
If you wanted more information on Catherine who became Mother Mary Imelda at Lochinvar, I'm sure whoever is the current archivist there would be able to help.
Are you in Australia? The phone number of the Congregational Office at Lochinvar is
(02) 4930 9650.
When I read your post initially I wondered why the surname was familiar to me. Now I know - I went to school at Lochinvar so must have seen or been told about Mother Mary Imelda at some time :) :) :)
But she was a bit before my time! :) :) :) :)
Dawn M
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Hi again Peter
If you wanted more information on Catherine who became Mother Mary Imelda at Lochinvar, I'm sure whoever is the current archivist there would be able to help.
Are you in Australia? The phone number of the Congregational Office at Lochinvar is
(02) 4930 9650.
When I read your post initially I wondered why the surname was familiar to me. Now I know - I went to school at Lochinvar so must have seen or been told about Mother Mary Imelda at some time :) :) :)
But she was a bit before my time! :) :) :) :)
Dawn M
Yes I visited the Lochinvar site and read the Archive report.
She is buried in the nuns (sisters) area SW of the Church on the opposite side as the School.
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Hi again Peter
If you wanted more information on Catherine who became Mother Mary Imelda at Lochinvar, I'm sure whoever is the current archivist there would be able to help.
Are you in Australia? The phone number of the Congregational Office at Lochinvar is
(02) 4930 9650.
When I read your post initially I wondered why the surname was familiar to me. Now I know - I went to school at Lochinvar so must have seen or been told about Mother Mary Imelda at some time :) :) :)
But she was a bit before my time! :) :) :) :)
Dawn M
Yes I visited the Lochinvar site and read the Archive report.
She is buried in the nuns (sisters) area SW of the Church on the opposite side as the School.
JAMES AND CATHERINE (NEE MOONEY) FLOOD
Written by Patrick Murphy 2011
James Flood was a native of Allen (Isle of Allen or Rathernan), Co. Kildare, Ireland (spelling
on documents tendered in Australia is Allan based on accent of informants) and the son of
James, a labourer and May McCabe his wife. James’s calling was a farm labourer and was
30 years old on embarkation in June 1841. The person certifying the baptism was Rev G.
O’Reilly PP stated as June 1810 who was a Roman Catholic - both James and Catherine
were Roman Catholics. The persons certifying the character of James were Richard
Fitzgerald, Landholder and Peter Mooney, Landholder.
Catherine Flood was the daughter of John Snr and Biddy (Elizabeth) Mooney, also from
Allen, Co. Kildare, Ireland. John’s calling was a farm labourer. Her age on embarkation was
27 years old, sworn by G. H. Midheoff J. P. The same persons certified as to her character
with both being in good ”State of bodily health strength and probable usefulness”.
“Rathernan1 or the Isle of Allen was a parish in the union of Naas, barony of Connell, county of Kildare
and the province of Leinster, 5 ¾ miles (NE) from Kildare. It contained 977 inhabitants in 1844. This
parish comprises 5140 ½ statute acres. It is situated on the bog of Allen by which it and the parish of
Kilmacgue are entirely insulated forming what is called the Isle of Allen, its chief feature is the Hill of
Allen. On its northern border are the ruins of Ballyteigue Castle. At the northern extremity of the hill
about a quarter of a mile distant, is a slight eminence called the leap of Allen, composed of red sandstone
conglomerate, arranged in beds varying in thickness. The greenstone of the hill combined with greenstone
porphyry, appears all round the base on the sides and on the summit in protuberant masses without any
stratification. Rathernan is a rectory and vicerage in the diocese of Kildare. In the Roman Catholic
divisions the parish is part of the district of Allen and Milltown.”
James Flood married2 Catherine Mooney on 5 May 1833 at Allen, Co Kildare, Ireland. Both
are stated as being from the parish of Allen. The witnesses were Henry Dempsey and
Catherine Ivory. The church nor their parents are named in the records. There is no Mauriey
or Morrissey registered in the Parish of Allen.
The church in which James and Catherine were married is likely3 to have been at
Kilmeague, Nass and ‘The Church of St Maedhoc or Mogue.’ It is not certain to which saint
of that name the old church of this place is dedicated.
James and Catherine Flood arrived in Australia on the ship “Eliphinstone” on 8th October
18404 with their family of John, aged 4 in May 1840 and born on 12 April 1836, Thomas,
aged 2 in August 1840 and born on 2 September 1838 and Bridget, aged 6 in May 1840 and
born on 18 May 1834. William Capper bought out the “Eliphinstone”.
Having arrived in Sydney in October 1840, they immediately made their way to Bathurst and
Kings Plains where they had their first child, James, in Australia on 14th November 1841.
James was baptised on 1 January 1842 at Bathurst when they were living at Kings Plains. It
was three years later in 1844 when they had another child, William born on 12 February
1844 and baptised on 28 July 1844. Tragedy struck soon after with the death of James in
1844. Another son was born in 1846 and again named James after their dead son of the
previous 2 years.
It was another two years when James and Catherine had another child, Patrick on 8
February 1848 followed by Mary a further five years on, born on 7 March 1853.
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Hi again Peter
If you wanted more information on Catherine who became Mother Mary Imelda at Lochinvar, I'm sure whoever is the current archivist there would be able to help.
Are you in Australia? The phone number of the Congregational Office at Lochinvar is
(02) 4930 9650.
When I read your post initially I wondered why the surname was familiar to me. Now I know - I went to school at Lochinvar so must have seen or been told about Mother Mary Imelda at some time :) :) :)
But she was a bit before my time! :) :) :) :)
Dawn M
Yes I visited the Lochinvar site and read the Archive report.
She is buried in the nuns (sisters) area SW of the Church on the opposite side as the School.
JAMES AND CATHERINE (NEE MOONEY) FLOOD
Written by Patrick Murphy 2011
James Flood was a native of Allen (Isle of Allen or Rathernan), Co. Kildare, Ireland (spelling
on documents tendered in Australia is Allan based on accent of informants) and the son of
James, a labourer and May McCabe his wife. James’s calling was a farm labourer and was
30 years old on embarkation in June 1841. The person certifying the baptism was Rev G.
O’Reilly PP stated as June 1810 who was a Roman Catholic - both James and Catherine
were Roman Catholics. The persons certifying the character of James were Richard
Fitzgerald, Landholder and Peter Mooney, Landholder.
Catherine Flood was the daughter of John Snr and Biddy (Elizabeth) Mooney, also from
Allen, Co. Kildare, Ireland. John’s calling was a farm labourer. Her age on embarkation was
27 years old, sworn by G. H. Midheoff J. P. The same persons certified as to her character
with both being in good ”State of bodily health strength and probable usefulness”.
“Rathernan1 or the Isle of Allen was a parish in the union of Naas, barony of Connell, county of Kildare
and the province of Leinster, 5 ¾ miles (NE) from Kildare. It contained 977 inhabitants in 1844. This
parish comprises 5140 ½ statute acres. It is situated on the bog of Allen by which it and the parish of
Kilmacgue are entirely insulated forming what is called the Isle of Allen, its chief feature is the Hill of
Allen. On its northern border are the ruins of Ballyteigue Castle. At the northern extremity of the hill
about a quarter of a mile distant, is a slight eminence called the leap of Allen, composed of red sandstone
conglomerate, arranged in beds varying in thickness. The greenstone of the hill combined with greenstone
porphyry, appears all round the base on the sides and on the summit in protuberant masses without any
stratification. Rathernan is a rectory and vicerage in the diocese of Kildare. In the Roman Catholic
divisions the parish is part of the district of Allen and Milltown.”
James Flood married2 Catherine Mooney on 5 May 1833 at Allen, Co Kildare, Ireland. Both
are stated as being from the parish of Allen. The witnesses were Henry Dempsey and
Catherine Ivory. The church nor their parents are named in the records. There is no Mauriey
or Morrissey registered in the Parish of Allen.
The church in which James and Catherine were married is likely3 to have been at
Kilmeague, Nass and ‘The Church of St Maedhoc or Mogue.’ It is not certain to which saint
of that name the old church of this place is dedicated.
James and Catherine Flood arrived in Australia on the ship “Eliphinstone” on 8th October
18404 with their family of John, aged 4 in May 1840 and born on 12 April 1836, Thomas,
aged 2 in August 1840 and born on 2 September 1838 and Bridget, aged 6 in May 1840 and
born on 18 May 1834. William Capper bought out the “Eliphinstone”.
Having arrived in Sydney in October 1840, they immediately made their way to Bathurst and
Kings Plains where they had their first child, James, in Australia on 14th November 1841.
James was baptised on 1 January 1842 at Bathurst when they were living at Kings Plains. It
was three years later in 1844 when they had another child, William born on 12 February
1844 and baptised on 28 July 1844. Tragedy struck soon after with the death of James in
1844. Another son was born in 1846 and again named James after their dead son of the
previous 2 years.
It was another two years when James and Catherine had another child, Patrick on 8
February 1848 followed by Mary a further five years on, born on 7 March 1853.
The following children were to James and Catherine:
Name Born Married Marriage Date Death Date
Bridget 18 May 1834 Royal Atkins 1 Feb 1855 7 May 1869
John 12 April 1836 Sophia Coyne 6 June 1865 9 October 1898
Thomas 2 Sept 1838 Julia Cullen 1861 (Carcoar) 30 June 1874
James 14 Nov 1841 1844
Christopher 1842
William 12 Feb 1844 17 Nov 1866
James 1846
Patrick 8 Feb 1848 Agnes Mary Burke 1878 (Carcoar) 10 June 1928
Mary 7 March 1853
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Hi Peter
Another coincidence - my Montgomery family came out on the same voyage as your Flood family!
Elphinstone, October 1840.
Mine were from Ballymena, Co.Antrim in Ireland - James and Ellen and their boys (a girl is mentioned in the bounty immigrants list but we think she died on the voyage), plus James' sister Jane and her husband Hugh Marshall and family.
:) :) :)
Dawn M
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Just wondering if you have any information as to where James and Catherine Flood are buried and or dates of their death ? and what relation is Peter Gerard Flood to them? I am a great x 3 granddaughter researching family tree.
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Catherine died 1891 at Junction Reef west of Lyndhurst, buried Lyndhurst Mentioned in NSW BDM
JAMES death can be found
The history of JAMES and CATHERINE is posted above.
I have now tracked down descedents from several of James and Catherine's children 6 generations, in Sydney, Armidale Toowoomba, Goondiwindi, Stanthorpe, Coffs Harbour, Brisbane, Newcastle just a few'
Thanks Peter
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original JAMES and Catherine arrived 1840 settled Carcoar, son John, his son Gwidyr William, his son JAMES, his son Peter Gerard Flood
Look on web to see profile, Facebook or LINKEDIN
Still cannot determine year of death of James
Can you assist as I tried NSW BDM, Wills, Probate, intestate, Pub Licences, Greville PO names, 1891 Census, etc??????????????????????? ??? ???
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Peter, there is a James Frederick FLOOD death in Qld in 1927 "aged about 64 years" [1927/C1743 - which indicates it was in country Qld.]
No parents named, and it's 10 years out for age if he was born 1846, but do you think this could possibly be him?
I note you said you have looked everywhere in NSW, but what about the other states?
Dawn M
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Hi Peter,
Thanks for getting back to me, I am also having trouble on locating where and when James died, he is such a mystery man !!. Interstate maybe the answer, I will also look you up on facebook/linkedin too. If I find out any information I'll let you know.
Aussie M
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This is no help in finding the death, just another bit of background - another (not very flattering) description of the Rising Sun in 1871
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/60870895
I think you have this one - an ad for Races at the Rising Sun in 1862
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/62719390
Judith