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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: Stalbridge on Tuesday 26 April 11 19:42 BST (UK)
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I have just begun researching my husbands Irish roots and know that his great grandfather was Philip Fogarty who was born in Tipperary. His grandmother Mary Ann Fogarty (Philip's eldest daughter) was born in Liverpool and used to take two of her sons (Frank and Jim) to see relatives in Loughmore. They stayed with an uncle called Dennis who had a daughter called Kate and two sons called Jim and Patrick. Philip Fogarty was married to Jane Parkinson, also from Tipperary. I wonder if anyone in Loughmore has any recollection of this family. The adress of the Fogarty House may have been Cloughreally. A Loughmore family called Maher may also have some recollection. I would be so grateful for any contact.
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Perhaps you could give us an idea of dates? (just remember not to post details of living people)
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This could be the Fogarty family in Tinvoher Loughmore 1901 Census
http://tinyurl.com/63edzso
annclare
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Dear aghadowey - I am so sorry, it is the end of a long day!
Philip Fogarty born Tipperary1859 died Liverpool 1898.
Jane Parkinson born Tipperary 1857 died Liverpool 1916.
Mary Ann Fogarty born Liverpool March 1876 died Liverpool 1955. married Thomas O'Hare in Liverpool 1874.
Frank O'Hare born Liverpool 1915. Jim O'Hare born Liverpool 1918.
Thank you for reminding me.
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Dear annclare
How can I thank you enough? I am amazed to get such an immediate reply with information that matches exactly that which was passed on to us by my father in law and his brother. I see that the family is still there in1911. I am so very grateful. Can I always access these records by following your link?
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The 1901 and 1911 census are both online (free)- either click on annclare's link or see www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search.
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Hi
My husband is the grandson of Agnes Fogarty, the youngest but one daughter of Philip and Jane. I know very little as Agnes died when her son David (my husband's father) was small. There are several people who have also researched this family but are all sticking at where in Tipperary the couple came from.
If you do a surname search for Fogarty you will find the other posts (sorry, I don't know to do a link ???)
The fathers' of both Philip and Jane were Patrick, and the story I have been told is that Patrick Parkinson was a farmer who felt Philip was beneath his daughter. They therefore ran off and got married in Liverpool (aged 15 and 13!!)
does this tally with any info you have?
Karen
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There is a Patrick Parkinson family in Graiguefrehane Loughmore Census 1901 that may be relevant.
http://tinyurl.com/6ec3bza
Also in Loughmore cemetery there are some Parkinson gravestones that also could be related.
http://tinyurl.com/5tf4cre
annclare
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Dear momo 22
Like you I have very little to go on. Before my father in law died I asked him about his parents but only knew of his mother Mary Ann Fogarty who married Thomas O'Hare in Liverpool in 1901. Mary Ann seems to have had lots of sisters and this tallies with the info I have unearthed from the internet over the last two days. I am certain that the info re Denis Fogarty (see other messages in the chain of this evenings correspondence) Loughmore is accurate. It was surprising to see the ages of Philip and Jane when they married - it is interesting to hear that your family info backs up the ages. I discovered transcriptions from the gravestones in the Catholic cemetery in Loughmore http://members.webone.com.au/~sgrieves/cemeteries%20ireland3.htm#Nesbitt8319,(or Google Fogarty Loughmore Tipperary) have you seen them? As I have only just begun with this side of the family, I will let you know if anything else turns up. Many thanks for contacting me, it is most exciting!
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Thanks again annclare
I did find both of those sources and think they are part of my puzzle. Very grateful for your help.
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Hi Stalbridge
Are you on Anc**try? They have recently released lots of Liverpool BMDs, for both C of E and Catholic churches, I have found lots on Philip and Jane's family! Will share what I have if you would like me to PM you?
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Yes, mono22, I am on the Ancestry site and I did find their recent Liverpool additions. I also found a website for RC Marriages (www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolrcmarriages) and a similar one for baptisms (www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolrcbaptisms) which, although restricted to certain dates, were very useful and will supply further details from the registers . They are both easily traced via Google. Do look at my public member tree on Ancestry. I will try to send you details in PM.
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Hello Stalbridge and aghadowey
Great to see your postings of the last few days.
You have come to the same conclusion as myself. That our Fogarty and Parkinson relations came from Graiguefrehane.
I have recently been in touch with a Murray Tomkins who is also related to the Parkinsons in Tipperary. He got a lot of information from a book written by Elizabeth Scheiding mainly about her Langford and Westman relations but includes Parkinsons. I cannot get hold of a copy so he has promised to look into it and get back to me. I'll let you know the results.
I have been researching the family for a number of years now and have quite a lot of BMD certificates I could share with you. I have also written a family history of the Fogarty's (I have also recently started a family history reseach business of my own). I could let you have a copy but it's much more fun to do it yourself first and then compare it with others and fill in the gaps.
I also have some family photo's I could share. I have been in contact with a number of other Fogarty relation there are quite a few! Philip and Jane had 16 children (four died young and I'm not certain about Therea born c.1889).
You can contacted me via Ancestry. This site is too public.
Hope to speak to you soon.
Cath x
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Hello all,
I presume I'm coming to this search rather late....Fogarty family of Loughmore
however I am interested in Jane Parkinson (1856-1916) m Philip Fogarty as her mother Mary may be a Connolly also of Loughmore. If this is correct that would be the connection with our family.
Please, does anybody have any idea about this Jane. :)
Thank you.
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Hello ozziek
Jane Parkinson was born 15 April 1856 in Loughmore Tipperary. Her father was Patrick Parkinson and her mother was Mary Ann Connolly born 20 October 1830. Mary Ann's Parents were John Connolly and Jane Cormick (Cormac). They lived in Graigrufrehane part of Loughmore.
Jane was one of 11 children. She ran away to Liverpool and married Philip Fogarty and had 17 children herself. My great grandfather was her third child.
I guess that you are descended from the Connolly line?
Would be interested to hear more about the Connelly ancestor's.
Best Regards
Cath
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Hello Cath and Ozziek
My husband is the grandson of Philip and Jane's daughter Agnes. I'm really pleased to see a breakthrough in the parentage of Philip Fogarty and Jane Parkinson as I only knew their fathers' names until today! How did you find Jane's birth and mother's name?
Cath-Are you descended from Patrick and Jessie?
Do either of you know any more about Philip's death in 1898? I was told there was a family rumour that he died saving someone from drowning. I know he died in the Royal Infirmary, Liverpool at a relatively young age.
Ozziek, I'm also really interested in the Connolly link.
Regards
Karen
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Hello CathGore,
Thank you for all that information re Jane Parkinson. I actually belong to the McCormack family of Ballybeg, and the only information we had is that a DAUGHTER married a CONNOLLY of Loughmore. We have a little more information re 2 other Parkinson offspring, but that's all. So thank you from me and my Irish co-worker.
Yes, I would be delighted to hear more of the Connolly link.
Looking forward to further correspondence-
Regards, ozziek
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Hello Karen and ozziek
Karen I think we have spoken before? See past posts. I don't look at this site very often so missed your last post.
ozziek I'm please that you found my reply of interest. Where is Ballybeg? The nearest I can find in the Loughmore townships is Ballydaug? is this the same place?
Back in November 2015 the National Library of Ireland released the Irish Catholic Parish Registers FREE! online http://registers.nli.ie/ this is were I found the marriages and baptisms of the Parkinson family. I had to go thru every page one at a time to find them. It took a long time! However, Ancestry and Find My Past are releasing an index next month (March 2016).
You can contact me at either of these sites if you are a member. This site is too public to give too much personal detail.
Otherwise, I look forward to hearing back from you here. If you want me to look for anything or have any additional information I would love to add it to my Fogarty/Parkinson history. I have lots of documents and BMD's I can share.
Best wishes.
Cath
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Hi Cath,
This site is too public to give too much personal detail.
You are able to send personal messages (pm's) via RootsChat, you do this by clicking the round button on the right underneath the profile name.
When anyone replies to your post or any that you have chosen to keep updated on RootsChat will send you an email notification to make sure that you do not miss out on any replies ;)
Regards
Sarah
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Hello Cath ,
I'm sorry for the delay with my reply, too busy getting data & notes organised.
Ballybeg is up north near Nenagh...where all the McCormacks are..
As for the Parkinson siblings (of Jane) -I found some births (either Parkinson or Perkisson), confirmed by presence of mother's name in Church records..so far the list is
Jane b15.04.1856
James b22.07.1865
John -the alderman, already had unconfirmed year of birth 1866
Ellen b28.02.1867
Thomas b19.09.1868
Patrick b25.10.1870
Bridget m Harford, already had unconfirmed year of birth 1873
There is a big gap 1856-65 which may or may not be filled by some names I found in a FT Michael b 1858, John b18559, Bridget b1861, Johanna b1863. Maybe I just missed these
I also found James Parkinson and wife Mary Fogarty in the same parish....that may solve another outstanding problem as James is probably Patrick Parkinson's brother.
I would be grateful if you could help fill in that gap or lead me to a spelling that works.
Thank you, ozziek
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Hi ozziek
There are a number of variations of the spelling for Parkinson most commonly Perkinson. the ones I think you have missed are because they have been spelt in the parish register as PERCSON strange but true. Try this spelling and you will find more.
John b.1859 is living in Dublin on the 1901 and 1911 census. Living with him are his nephews and nieces named Gleeson. Children of his oldest sister Mary b.1854 who I believe married James Gleeson in 1882.
Here is the list of children of Patrick Parkinson and Mary Ann Connolly I have found.
Mary 12 August 1854
Jane 15 April 1856
Michael 16 January 1858
John 17 September 1859
Bridget 28 August 1861
Joanna 17 October 1863
James 16 July 1865
Ellen (1) 11 March 1867
Thomas 27 September 1868
Patrick 29 October 1870
Ellen (2) 25 February 1873
Have a look at this site for Loughmore burials
http://members.webone.com.au/~sgrieves/cemeteries%20ireland3.htm
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I think I have found Patrick Parkinson with Mary and their sons James and Patrick in the 1901 census. However Mary is 62 in this census which makes her date of birth 1839 which doesn't tally with the earlier info given.
Perhaps Patrick married another Mary when Mary Connolly died?
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Patrick and Mary Parkinson are dead by 1911 and I have found possible deaths. If these are correct then Patrick was born C1828 and Mary C1830.
I know age info can be inaccurate in the census and I noticed that James and Patrick junior who are both alive in 1911 have 'moved' their ages. ???
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Hello momo22,
I agree with you about some ages given in the census.
In the case of Mary Parkinson nee Connolly, the 1839 year of birth is more than likely incorrect as she would have been only 15 at the birth of her first child. In light of the furore over her 2nd daughter's marriage at 15, I believe the 1830 year is correct. Oh, if only those people filling in their census forms had considered us genealogists!
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Hi momo22 and ozziek
I have Patrick Parkinson born 11 march 1827 at CLOHEYLE Loughmore. He died 1908 (Thurles registration district).
Mary Ann Connolly born 20 October 1830 Loughmore. She died 1910 (Thurles registration district).
The differences in ages in the census is also true of some burial inscriptions. It doesn't help finding the right people!
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Yes, I saw the deaths in the Thurles district which related to Patrick and Mary which made me question the census info. Certainly they and their two sons were somewhat 'vague' on ages!
I haven't been able to locate Patrick and Mary's marriage despite find their children's baptisms.
Find my past has a lot of info on Patrick re dog licencing and what looks like minor disagreements with neighbours.
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Cathgore-where did you get Patrick's birth/baptism from? I have looked at the Loughmore parish reg for that date and couldn't see it :(
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Sorry-got it! :)
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momo22
Are you looking at the parish register pages (images) or the index on FindMyPast? I have found the FindMyPast not very good. I found the Birth's and marriages by looking at page after page (until I was cross eyed) and making my own index for families was interested in. Try looking at the NLI site http://registers.nli.ie/
and filtering by parish then by year and date. I've just rechecked it and it appears two pages on from 11 March. It seems he was born March baptises in April with March 11th added to the entry. The surname is written Percusson.
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Yes, I found it-see message above :)
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Sorry our messages must have crossed.
I guess you are on FindMyPast. Have you looked at the Encumbered (Incumbered) estates records? They have lists tenants and have maps of lands being sold with descriptions, values and rents paid. You can also find out more by looking at Irish Newspapers. The land they lived on in Loughmore was owned by Sir George Valentine Goold. At one point in the petty sessions the Parkinson and Fogarty families are in court for aggressive trespass. The bailiff Sadlier (also notorious in the area) brings the case for the absent landowner a Yorkshire vicar?
I guess you already know about the Cormack brother buried at Loughmore. Do you also know about Bill Fanning and how he was ostracised by people of loughmore when he tried to by land another tenant had been turfed off for non payment of rents. There was a song written about it.
As you can see I love the wider social history that links to our ancestors.
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Thanks for the added information- I'll look at that on FindMyPast. I'm on Ancestry too so it's been great to cross check info. To be honest, until the NLI Catholic Regs were released I knew very little before the Fogarty/Parkinson marriage in Liverpool-It's my husband's family line so I suppose I've been fairly relaxed about following it when I have brick walls on my own side ;) Still it's nice to follow Irish ancestry-my own ancestors have been English on all sides since (at least)the 1600s!
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:) I want to thank everybody for help with the Parkinson family at Loughmore.
I've got about as far as I can go, so I'm turning my attention to the Connollys...
I now have 3 extra siblings for Mary Parkinson nee Connolly...but so far no further.
and I'm not forgetting we're into Famine time.
The next task is to try to connect the many later Connollys of the area with the early ones.
Fingers crossed. Thanks again.
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So sorry that I have not been in contact before. Do contact me again if there is anything specific you think I might be able to help with. I am sure that you now know as much as I do!