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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Monmouthshire => Wales => Monmouthshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: treebird on Tuesday 26 April 11 09:58 BST (UK)
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Hello Roots folk,
I am an American and have been coming to Wales for several years and made friends with folks in the Gwent area...When I told a great cousin of mine that I go to Wales often, she said, "you know you are part Welsh"....I hadn't a clue. I new I was part Irish, but now the Welsh bit intrigued me. About 2 years ago, I fell in love with a Welshman from North Wales and we got married and now I'm living in North Wales - I find myself wondering....hmmm...what ancestral DNA pull brought me here?!
Recently, our family found an old letter from a great aunt that mentions that her Welsh grand and great parents were Welsh Quakers and Miners. This was really exciting to me. I live in the Wrexham area and thought - there are Quakers and Miners who have a history here, but then when I tried to follow the lead it brought me to Monmouthshire instead (another mining area).
Here's how I got there so far: I found the death certificate of Ann Kane Shannon, my great-great grandmother (Ann Kane married Philip Shannon and they both immigrated to the USA with their children and then had a few more there). On Ann's death certificate it stated that her parents were James and Mary Kane born in Ireland. So where's the Welsh connection I wondered?
I found a 1891 census of a James (age 70 iron worker) and Mary Kane (age 60) who lived at 34 High Street in Garndiffaith with their son John (age 30, coal worker). It says that they were born in Waterford, Ireland. I need help tracking down James and Mary's marriage records, and find out how long they were living at that address in Wales and where they may have lived before that. Also it says that their son, John is married, but no wife was listed on this census. If this James and Mary are indeed Ann Kane's parents, she was living in Brooklyn at the time this census was taken. I wonder if James and Mary had other children besides Ann and John and also, why did they leave Ireland - was it during the famine or much later then that?
I wonder if Mary's maiden name was the Welsh one, but I haven't been able to find it. In the cousin's letter it suggests that the Kanes were the Welsh link - so my guess it was Mary, or even perhaps Jame's mother. I need help finding maiden names!
I am really hoping that I will get closer to finding out who my Welsh Quaker/Miner ancestors were. If anyone can help, I would be most grateful.
thank you,
TreeBird
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Hello treebird :)
Welcome to Wales!
If this family are your ancestors, their son John was born in Ireland around 1861, which would suggest that the marriage of James and Mary took place in Ireland rather than Wales.
Do you have Ann's marriage certificate, which may give info about James's occupation?
Kind Regards
Morgan
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I wonder whether that James remarried....
On 1871 I found a James Cane in Garndiffaith
Below ? and Wesleyan Chapel, Garndiffaith
James Cane Head age 46 Labourer born Waterford, Ireland
Johanna Cane Wife age 40 born Waterford
Ann Cane Daughter age 12 born Dowlais
John Cane Son age 10 born Dowlais
Margarett Cane Daughter age 7 born Trevethin
RG10 Piece 5334 Folio 81 Page 18
Kind Regards
Morgan
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and enumerated as James Keen in 1881!
James Keen age 55 born Ireland Labourer attending Masons
Joannah Keen age 50 born Ireland
Margaret Keen age 17 born Trevethin At Home
RG11 Piece 5252 Folio 130 Page 28
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Wow Morgan,
Thank you!
This is very, very interesting information indeed. Perhaps Joannah was really named Mary Joannah...or like you said, was a second wife.
This is truly something to delve into. I am so grateful for this information. If this is the Ann Cane (and I love that it is also written as Keen) - it would be a remarkable find.
The marriage certificate of Ann Keane and Philip Shanahan/Shannon does not disclose any information about the parents unfortunately.
I was told that the Cane/Keane Family were Quakers. So perhaps if Ann was a Quaker and married an Irish Catholic, her parents didn't approve.....
Ann and Philip had 5 children: John J. Shannon (so the name of her brother), Mary Margaret Shannon (name of her mother and sister combined), Bridget Shannon, Hannah Shannon and Philip Shannon Jr.
Now to look on the map and see where Dowlais is and hopefully, hopefully find a birth certificate!
Diolch yn fawr, Morgan!
Pamela
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Hello again, Morgan.
I just realized that this couldn't be our Ann Kane/Cane/Keen/Keane.
This one that you found was born in 1861, whilst ours, Anne Keane (last name and spelling of first name change often on documents) married Philip Shanahan (later to become Shannon) on 2 JAN 1862 in the Cathedral Parish of Holy Trinity Within, Waterford. Witnesses were Michael Burke and Mary Ann Walsh. Parents were not listed.
Our Ann/e must have been born in the mid to late 1840s, that is my guess
Perhaps this James Keen/Cane was Ann's brother?
It is all still unclear.
I got excited too soon ;-)
If you find anything else out...
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At least it eliminates this James as Father of your Ann! :)
It seems that Ann was Catholic and from Waterford, so perhaps she is not linked to your Welsh line?
One of my lines was supposed to have come over from Ireland in 19th Century, but later I found the family had actually been in Wales for well over 300 years! ::)
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Hi Morgan,
My Ann was married in Ireland (Waterford) and had 3 of her 5 children there. In my research, I found out that Quakers were running soup kitchen in Waterford during the famine and that they also had a thriving ship building business there too. I am wondering if Ann's family were involved in the Quaker ship buisness in Ireland but perhaps the maternal line was Welsh, and that's how Ann met her husband Philip - who was a "Chippy", a ship's carpenter.
So it could be that there was the Irish line that married the Welsh line. The Welsh Quaker part of my family supposedly used to have Quaker meetings in their home. It is written in the letter that they women would scrub the soft coal dust away after each meeting and how strenuous it was that their arms were sore.
Sometimes there are these stories that tell more than a census. If only I new the mother's maiden name. Perhaps it was the mother that was married, Had Ann and then lost her first husband and then married James Keen/Cane....
Tis a mystery! Hopefully it won't forever remain so.
Are you from the Abersychan area, Morgan?
The strangest thing - if my Welsh ancestors were from that area near Quaker's Yard, it would not surprise me because I have been drawn to that area for 10 years. I met some people who live in Abercarn and had been visiting the area every year. They say we move in the same path as our ancestors sometimes.
we shall see!
thanks for your help. The hunt continues!
There was a James and Mary Kane who lived in Abersychan (Trevethin) with their son John. I only see them on one census. I wonder what happened to them...
all the best,
Pamela
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Hello Pamela :)
No, I'm not from Abersychan area.
I wondered whether the 1871/1881 James (with Johanna) is the same James with Mary in 1891. He has a son John with him in 1871.
Do you have an indication of which decade the Quaker meetings were happening?
It may be an idea to open a new topic on the Waterford board with a link to this topic. Perhaps someone will be able to help find Ann, James and Mary.
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Hi Treebird,
Please have a look at this web site it may help in your search.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monfamilies/monprts.htm
WT
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Hello Treebird
There was a Quaker Meeting House in the Trosnant area of Pontypool. Everything was put down as Trevethin but covered a bigger area. There was also one in the village of Pontymoile, Just outside Pontypool. I have a photo of it somewhere.
Good Luck
Darren
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Dear Darren,
Thank you for your post regarding the Quaker Meeting Houses in the Pontypool area. Do you by any chance know where there would be Quaker Meeting Notes from these? Do you know the dates in which these meeting houses were active?
Supposedly my great-great-grandparents used to have meetings in their home. They were also coal miners. I am wondering if they worked in Blaenafon if they lived in Trevethin.
Do you know if old Quaker meeting notes in Wales were mostly written in Welsh or English?
thanks for your help. I'd love to see that photo you mentioned.
all the best,
Pamela
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Hello Pamela.
Im Not sure where the notes would be now, Maybe you could try the local archives in Ebbw Vale. Pontypool is an English speaking area now, but at the time it was very mixed, so it could be either. Do you have an address of where they lived? If they lived in the Trevethin Parish, they wouldnt have had to travel to Blaenavon for work in the mines, there was plenty on theyre doorstep in Pontypool.
The old Quaker building in Trosnant Pontypool is still there ( Albeit not the original) But it has for the last 60 years at least been a masonic hall. Just behind this building overlooking an old Dram Road in Pontypool Park is a Quaker Burial ground. The grave stones were still in place up untill last year, and are now resting against the building. Last year their were about 20 of them, and they are quite hard to read but date from the late 1700s to 1800s. Il try to find out what quaker buildings were in the Garndiffaith area as you mentioned High St up the Garn.