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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: malayastar on Tuesday 26 April 11 02:01 BST (UK)

Title: Emmanuel SILVER Hobart/Portugal
Post by: malayastar on Tuesday 26 April 11 02:01 BST (UK)
Emmanuel Silver (aka Manuel Silver, Emmanuel de silva, Emmanual Silver) was born about 1852 according to his marriage certificate in Portugal. He jumped ship in Hobart when he was about 15 years old. He went on to marry Louisa Ann Wright (Georgina Mitchel) on the 7-Jul-1875 in Hobart and died 3-Dec-1933. I have 8 children to this marriage. Louisa was born about 1855 and used a mixture of her above names on different documents. Any further information about Emmanuel or Louisa would be greatly appreciated; birth dates and parents would be fantastic
I  have been told there is a newspaper article on him jumping ship but have not been able to find it
Title: Re: Emmanuel Silver Hobart/Portugal
Post by: Aussie1947 on Tuesday 26 April 11 02:31 BST (UK)
Hi,

Some directory info.


Tasmania PO Directory 1892-93 (Wise)
Silver Emanuel, 170 Harrington street, Hobart

Tasmania PO Directory 1894-95 (Wise)
Silver Emanuel, 17 Warwick street, Hobart.

Tasmania PO Directory 1896-97 (Wise)
Silver Manuel, 145 Harrington st. Hobart

and in the same street.
Silver Geo. butchr. 106 Harrington st. Hob.

Regards
Gerry

Title: Re: Emmanuel Silver Hobart/Portugal
Post by: malayastar on Tuesday 26 April 11 02:38 BST (UK)
Thanks Gerry

that's great information i will copy it and store it away
have a great day

thanks Tim
Title: Re: Emmanuel Silver Hobart/Portugal
Post by: Dundee on Tuesday 26 April 11 03:52 BST (UK)
Hi Tim,

It was Louisa who died in 1933, Emmanuel died in 1908.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0cx0/

Where did you find the information that Emmanuel was born in Portugal?  Why does Louisa have two different surnames?

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Emmanuel Silver Hobart/Portugal
Post by: Aussie1947 on Tuesday 26 April 11 04:17 BST (UK)
Tim,

There is a record that has a William Alfred Silver born 28th October 1875, Hobart.

Father, William Alfred Silver & mother, Louisa Wright.

Gerry

Name corrected from Siver to Silver.
Title: Re: Emmanuel Silver Hobart/Portugal
Post by: wivenhoe on Tuesday 26 April 11 04:23 BST (UK)




Can you identify the documents you have, with dates , and how Louisa is named on each please?
If you have the marriage certificate can you give all the details on it also.
Title: Re: Emmanuel Silver Hobart/Portugal
Post by: malayastar on Tuesday 26 April 11 05:16 BST (UK)
Hi Debra

Thank you for correcting me with the death date swap around
On Emmanuel death certificate it states that he was born in the USA and had been in Australia for 40 years

Previous family researchers told me he was Portuguese, His wife Louisa lived with her son and his family before she died and it was Louisa grand
daughter who told me.

On  two of Louisa children's marriage certificates (Amy b@1880 and Lillian May b@ 1887) she went under Louisa Mitchell with husband Emmanuel Silver.
On Ernest Silver's birth certificate it has Emmanuel Silver as the father and Louisa Georgina Silver formally Mitchell as the mother.

There is a possability  there are 2 families (I hope Not)  family 1: Emmanuel Silver and Louisa Wright family 2: Emmanuel Silver and Louisa Georgina  Mitchell :o

thanks Tim
Title: Re: Emmanuel Silver Hobart/Portugal
Post by: malayastar on Tuesday 26 April 11 05:40 BST (UK)
Lilly May Silver Marriage to Henry Richard Ellston 12-Oct-1906 : Louisa Mitchell
Amy Silver Marriage Mark Sheppard 4-My-1911 : Louisa Mitchell
Ethal May Silver Marriage William Joyce 30-Apr-1910: Louisa Mitchell

Emily May Silver Birth 8-Jun-1884 : Louisa Silver Formely Wright
Ernest Emmanuel Joseph Silver Birth 30-Jun-1879 Louisa Georgina Silver formally Mitchell

Emmanuel Silver and Louisa Ann Wright Marriage 7-Jul-1875

On Louisa Ann Silver death records (3-Dec-1933) it states she has 10 Children
6 living males 3 living females and one deceased male...we have too many  females  :(

thanks Tim
Title: Re: Emmanuel SILVER Hobart/Portugal
Post by: malayastar on Tuesday 26 April 11 06:49 BST (UK)
I feel better now  ;D

My great Grandmother Ethel May Silver
Born on the 8-Sep-1887
Parents stated as Emmanuel Silver and Louisa Silver formerly Wright

My great Grandmother Ethel May Silver
Married William Joyce on 30_April-1910
Parents stated as Emmanuel Silver and Louisa Mitchell

Thanks Tim

Title: Re: Emmanuel SILVER Hobart/Portugal
Post by: wivenhoe on Tuesday 26 April 11 07:18 BST (UK)


Tim
            About the details on the BDM certificates - are you quoting information that has been passed on to you or are you looking at the certificates?. If you have the certificates can you give the witnesses for all the marriage certs. that you have. Might be brothers/sisters. What churches - might be where earlier Silver children were baptised.
             Ernest Emanuel Joseph Silver buried 12 Sep 1953 75yrs, Cornelian Bay, also same plot Florence Maud Silver buried 13 Dec 1897 8 months. The death notice in the paper has Florence Maud as youngest daughter of Manuel and Louisa. So there should be one female deceased on Louisa's death certificate for children.
             Death certificate for Louisa should have age at marriage/s - is there just one marriage indicated?. Also birth place?.

Cheers
Title: Re: Emmanuel SILVER Hobart/Portugal
Post by: malayastar on Tuesday 26 April 11 09:53 BST (UK)
thank you

I am looking at certificates when i am quoting Louisa with different names.
Louisa's Death Certificate states there was only 1 marriage at 21 years
The certificate says there is only a male child deceased even though i have Florence Maud Silver dieing on the 16-Dec-1897(death notice)
Louisa's birth place is reported to be Hobart and year 1855 I will work through the witnesses and church names on the marriage certificates

thank you again  Tim
Title: Re: Emmanuel SILVER Hobart/Portugal
Post by: gregory tree on Wednesday 25 April 12 07:57 BST (UK)
Hi Malayastar,

I refer to your post and wonder if you know more about the William Joyce. Specifically if he had a sister Margaret Hannah Joyce and/or if you recognise the photo attached - no name but just says Great Great Grandfather - surname possibilities Gregory/Joyce/Ferris. My father had this photo but the writing on the back was my grandmothers.

My great grandfather was John Samuel Gregory and married Margaret (Maggie) Hannah Joyce 1888 age 19 in Fitzroy Victoria, Australia. I have no birth info on Margaret Hannah but her death in 1925 said she was 56. She was 31 in 1901 when my grandfather was born. Should have been born ~1869/70. Her parents were named as William & Ellen (nee Ferris??) who were married in 1867 in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia, so that fits in. In 1872 they had a son William Robert Joyce who would have been 38 in 1910.

I feel better now  ;D

My great Grandmother Ethel May Silver
Born on the 8-Sep-1887
Parents stated as Emmanuel Silver and Louisa Silver formerly Wright

My great Grandmother Ethel May Silver
Married William Joyce on 30_April-1910
Parents stated as Emmanuel Silver and Louisa Mitchell

Thanks Tim



Sorry I'm new to this I hope enough information for you to go on.
Title: Re: Emmanuel SILVER Hobart/Portugal
Post by: davem76 on Wednesday 14 August 13 13:02 BST (UK)
Hi

I don't know if this will help. But I spoke to my mother in-law regarding Emanuel Silver who was her Great Grandfather and she was told that she was told he was from Portugal and they think the name had been changed at some stage from Silva or DeSilva (Which could explain his headstone as it has written on it 'Manuel Silva' as I took a photo of it earlier this year when in Tasmania). The reason they changed it as he wanted to blend in as he apparently had tanned skin and dark features. He wasn't to dark so he was able to get away with it but needed to change his name. He just wanted to blend in. I have attached a photo of the headstone.Which this could be right if he jumped ship he was properly trying not to get caught. lol

But this is the story she has been told. I am looking at getting the marriage certificate as apparently his death certificate said he was born in the USA maybe he told people that so who ever registered the death could of put that in and it could be wrong so would be interested to know what is on his marriage certificate so if anyone know please let me know.

Hope this helps with the story behind him being portugese.
Title: Re: Emmanuel SILVER Hobart/Portugal
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 14 August 13 13:49 BST (UK)
Hi davem76,

The Hobart church registers are online, here is the marriage:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-35345-16969-24?cc=2125029&wc=M93C-984:633601471

Manuel was illiterate so whoever had to write down his name during his lifetime would have written it however they thought was correct, and he would not have been able to tell them any different.

Did the headstone originally have an inscription which has been painted over, or has someone recently put that on there?

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Emmanuel SILVER Hobart/Portugal
Post by: Dundee on Wednesday 14 August 13 14:23 BST (UK)
One of the marriage witnesses was Emma Jane TRINDER and I think her maiden surname was RODD.  The other witness was her brother, Herbert Charles.

Emma married Francis Silver TRINDER in 1867, and according to family trees online he was born in Portugal c1844.  He was also a seaman.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-35345-2965-76?cc=2125029&wc=M93C-9ZR:1331128051

This naturalisation document might be worth having a look at:

TRINDER, Francis Silver
1870
CSD7/1/39/654
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=6

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Emmanuel SILVER Hobart/Portugal
Post by: Dundee on Thursday 15 August 13 02:02 BST (UK)
The informant on the birth reg. for son William Alfred in 1875 was his grandmother, Mary Ann WRIGHT of Harrington Street, Hobart.

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-35349-17109-28?cc=2125029&wc=M93C-9HV:n968888109

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Emmanuel SILVER Hobart/Portugal
Post by: davem76 on Thursday 15 August 13 11:57 BST (UK)
I have found a link to baptisims in Portugal if is for a Manuel Da Silva born in 1952. I am not sure where to go from here as not sure how I can confirm this is our Manuel. as on his head stone it had Manuel Silva and was told the name could have been Da Silva as it was changed.
http://www.arquivo-madeira.org/pesquisa/baptismo/index.php?filho=manuel&pai=silva&mae=&paroquia=&data=1852&livro=

If there is anyone that can help with this that would be great maybe point me in the right direction or thoughts on this being the Emmanuel Silver.
Title: Re: Emmanuel SILVER Hobart/Portugal
Post by: davem76 on Thursday 15 August 13 12:30 BST (UK)
Hi Debra,

Just wondering as he was illiterate could that be why the spelling may have changed as he said it was Da Silva but as he would have had an accent people may have thought it was Silva or Silver not recognising the 'Da' thinking it was his accent and written it how that thought is sounded.

Thanks
Emily
Title: Re: Emmanuel SILVER Hobart/Portugal
Post by: malayastar on Sunday 28 July 19 12:18 BST (UK)
My new email address is
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Love to catch up with family on this thread. Kind regards Tim Cordwell
Title: Re: Emmanuel SILVER Hobart/Portugal
Post by: Arteelouise on Friday 04 April 25 03:37 BST (UK)
Is there anymore details of baptism of Emanuel Silva (sp) in Portugal. Is 1952 the correct date? Did you mean 1852. That would make sense given his marriage in 7 Jul 1875 to Louisa Anne Wright indicates age of 25 years of Age. I have seen the Headstone of Louise Ann Silver? in Cornelian Bay Cemetery. I maybe able to find a photo to upload.