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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: JMason on Monday 25 April 11 23:22 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I'm trying to find information on St Helena's Rescue Home, Upper Grove, Margate.
Grace Mason, b 1893 Ipswich was listed as an inmate there in the 1911 census.
I'm thinking it may have been a mother and baby home?? In which case I may be missing a Mason from my tree!
Along with the inmates were mission sisters and probation sister for the church army.
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Hi ,did you ever have any luck finding out any more.
I also had a great aunt from Ipswich Daisy Hammond that was in this home in 1911 ,I did find out it was a mother and baby home but no more.Would love to know more as Daisy was never spoken about ,her father went on to have more children and even called one Daisy
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The Children's Homes website simply says it was a Magdalen Home?
http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/list/Kent.shtml
and
http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/list/MH3.shtml
and
http://www.childrenshomes.org.uk/MH/
where it says "Fallen home for women and girls, or £2 2s entrance fee", 22 places, Admission ages 16-40
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I can't remember now where I saw it was a mother and baby home it was a couple of years ago and I think it was on a forum somewhere ,will search again.
I wonder if Daisy and Grace knew each other as they were both from Ipswich and in there at the same time .I would love to know what happened to her as she never went back to her family
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Even today, there are only about 15 specialist Mother and Baby Hospital units in England NHS.
I wonder how they responded to severe post natal depression in the era you refer to?
Just wondering.
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I would imagine they were very unsympathic to the girls in general .
The attitude towards unm arrived mother's was still awful in the 60s so in 1911 it was probably horrendous .
Feel so sad for Daisy she lost her mother at 12 and was living in Kent by 16 and never seen again or spoke about .
Wish I could find out what happneed to her bit her name is too common to research .
I expect all records keep by the home have long gone or were destroyed .
Did you find your Grace after 1911 ?
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Sorry for all those spelling mistakes it's the silly predictive text on my phone
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If you read those links I gave, it says:
Girls and women who had "fallen", i.e. unmarried mothers or mothers-to-be, often became outcasts because of the shame they had brought on their families.
Despite the circumstances that led many unfortunate women into pregnancy, such as seduction under the promise of marriage, little distinction was made in the eyes of many between single mothers and prostitutes.
In the latter part of the 19th century, the rescue and reform of young women in either situation became a major concern of charitable and religious groups, with a large number of establishments known as Magdalen (or Magdalene) Homes being set up to accommodate them.
Certain people would be better off looking for this information for themselves, rather than "wondering" in irrelevant posts?
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Hi All,
I'm trying to find information on St Helena's Rescue Home, Upper Grove, Margate.
Grace Mason, b 1893 Ipswich was listed as an inmate there in the 1911 census.
I'm thinking it may have been a mother and baby home?? In which case I may be missing a Mason from my tree!
Along with the inmates were mission sisters and probation sister for the church army.
Even today in England there are only about 15 Mother and Baby units. What else were you thinking of?
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Even today in England there are only about 15 Mother and Baby units. What else were you thinking of?
www.childrenshomes.org.uk lists some 963 entries for Magdalen homes in England (298 in London postal districts alone).
And that doesn't include other mother-and-baby homes!
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Hi ,did you ever have any luck finding out any more.
I also had a great aunt from Ipswich Daisy Hammond that was in this home in 1911 ,I did find out it was a mother and baby home but no more.Would love to know more as Daisy was never spoken about ,her father went on to have more children and even called one Daisy
Was Daisy Hammond married when she was admitted to the Institution, do you know?
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Hi ,did you ever have any luck finding out any more.
I also had a great aunt from Ipswich Daisy Hammond that was in this home in 1911 ,I did find out it was a mother and baby home but no more.Would love to know more as Daisy was never spoken about ,her father went on to have more children and even called one Daisy
Was Daisy Hammond married when she was admitted to the Institution, do you know?
With the references to "fallen women" and "unmarried girls" and Daisy "never been seen or spoken of again", what do you think?
Don't you see any inference there at all? ::)
This is an old thread and the OP hasn't been on rootschat for a couple of years. It would be interesting to know if they have made any progress in their research.
Littlesis, have you looked for a marriage or death for Daisy? Or a birth around 1911 for a baby registered in the district where the home is located, with a surname Hammond and mmn Hammond? If her father named another daughter Daisy, this may imply that this Daisy died, so perhaps look for a death prior to the birth of the second Daisy and after the 1911 census.
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I may be wrong here but the name Magdalen/Magdalene & the word "Missionary" make me wonder if they were Catholic rescue/help homes?
SB, in days gone by, young girls/women were employed as servants & such like and my belief is similar to KG's.
Often being a Servant/Maid or similar, young women obeyed their employers out of fear of losing their much needed income!
You will often read of illegitimacies to Servants etc. & that's the reason....young/vulnerable women taken for granted by their Boss (whether married or not)!!!
Annie
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Thank you for the replies.
Daisy was not married and was only 16 in 1911.I have checked any Hammond's born and Daisy Hammond's that were married but there is no way of being sure unless I start ordering marriage certificate's.
I thought if Daisy was alive in 1921 I would have to wait for that census to be released,check any Daisy's born 1894 Ipswich.
She may have died but I was speaking to my Grandmother yesterday and her sister and they are so shocked there father had a sister who they knew nothing about, I would imagine as they know so much of the family that if she had died it would of been spoken of and they would have known about her,I may be wrong but I think beng 16 and expecting a baby she like many others were sent away and never to be spoken of.
Her father was a widow at this time with 6 children all younger than Daisy ,he married a lady (who the 2nd Daisy was born too ) but she had 4 children already and only 1 went to live with her and the Hammond's the others were placed in a children's home in Ipswich ..Lovely couple !
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Can you follow the father's background as the name Daisy seems significant to him, possibly his own mother's name or his grandmother?
Very coincidental to have 2 kids with same name to 2 different women?
Annie
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I believe Daisy may also be a pet name for Margaret?
Deleted last sentence although I believe the above to be true?
Annie
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I may be wrong here but the name Magdalen/Magdalene & the word "Missionary" make me wonder if they were Catholic rescue/help homes?
The Children's Homes website is quite informative! ;D
Re Magdalen Homes, it says:
Organizations operating Magdalen Homes included The Salvation Army, Church Army, Ladies Association for the Care of Friendless Girls, the Church Penitentiary Association, the Female Aid Society, the Roman Catholic Church, and many independent local charities.
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On the contrary littlesis, if Daisy brought shame to the family, and if she consequently died at a young age, in that era it is highly likely that she would never have been spoken about. :-\
I don't think it is at all surprising that your grandmother and her sister did not know of this aunt of theirs.
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Hi ,did you ever have any luck finding out any more.
I also had a great aunt from Ipswich Daisy Hammond that was in this home in 1911 ,I did find out it was a mother and baby home but no more.Would love to know more as Daisy was never spoken about ,her father went on to have more children and even called one Daisy
Was Daisy Hammond married when she was admitted to the Institution, do you know?
With the references to "fallen women" and "unmarried girls" and Daisy "never been seen or spoken of again", what do you think?
Don't you see any inference there at all?
. When one tries to imagine how things were 100 years or more ago it is not wise to make inferences, in my considered opinion.
Even 60 years ago, women and wives could be treated very badly.
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I have just checked the census again and birth index for 1911.The maiden names only appears from the 4Th quarter in 1911 and I believe the registration district for Margate is Thanet ,they are several Hammond's born but can trace many of them to families apart from 3.
The baby was probably adopted quickly and renamed so not alot of hope there,also another question did the babies get registered by the mothers if they were too be adopted ?. I looked on the census for the home and there was a girl Mary Faultless but only 9 Faultless born that year and none in Kent which makes me think maybe they didn't register the children to the birth mothers ?
Your right Daisy may have died and that's why he named another child Daisy,the frustrating thing is I don't think I will ever find out.
I would love to be able to read any records from this home,I might tomorrow ring margate record office to see if they hold any records not holding my breath but worth a try
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I think maybe she did die,I have found a Daisy Hammond born abt 1895 died Jan-Feb-March 1912 age 17yrs ,Thanet Kent
I am going to order her death certificate to be sure it is her.Thank you for all your help will let you know the outcome.
Lisa
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Yes, please do let us know what the certificate reveals Lisa. :)
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I have ordered the death certificate via pdf it will arrive on 18th Nov,
Can I say I am am so pleased I came here as I didn't know about Gro records including maiden name and have now been able to put so many young children in my tree now.
Also searching a Hammond born in 1911 with mother maiden name Hammond in Thanet Kent there are none ,I am guessing that these babies were not registered to birth mother's ?
Does anyone know any different please
Thanks Lisa
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Sorry Lisa, I don't know about babies' birth registrations. They would have had several months (3 I think :-\) to register the birth - unsure how the timings are, but maybe you could check 1912 too?
Is it possible that the baby was born before 1911? I think some of these girls stayed on working after having their babies, possibly even after the baby had been adopted.
Someone will have more knowledge than I do and should be able to help you further.
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Sorry Lisa, I don't know about babies' birth registrations. They would have had several months (3 I think :-\) to register the birth - unsure how the timings are, but maybe you could check 1912 too?
I believe that it is within 42 days that the birth has to be registered, but whether that time applied in 1911 and 1912 I don't know.
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Hi I have just been back on and put the 2yr+/- on 1911 and still none.
I can only assume they didn't register the baby to the birth mother if adopted,be interesting to see what this death certificate Say's ....roll on the 18Th November
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Well I received the death certificate and it was all very sad.
I am now very sure that this was my Daisy as I check all deaths in Ipswich of Daisy Hammond between 1901 and 1911 and there are none.
The death certificate was 1912 , Daisy Hammond age 17yrs.She died from rheumatic fever and exhaustion and the informant of death was the matron from the local workhouse in Margate.Poor Daisy I felt terrible when I read this
Her father had a child with his new lady (they never married and had 4 children) in 1913 and she was named Daisy .
I am 95% sure this is our Daisy but would love to be 100%. I think ut highly unlikely to beable to get any information from Helena Home but does any know what workhouse records are available ?. I know London workhouses are available on Ancestry but has anyone had any luck with any others ?
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Thanks for letting us know what the d/c says. Sorry I have no knowledge of workhose records - I hope someone will be able to help you though.
Good luck. :)
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The place to look is www.workhouses.org.uk.
I assume she was an inmate of the Isle of Thanet workhouse - whose area included Margate.
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Thanet/
At the bottom of the page it says:
Records are at Kent History and Library Centre.
Records include: Admissions and Discharges (1872-1930), Deaths (1866-1931)