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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: rory mac on Monday 25 April 11 15:00 BST (UK)
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My gg-uncle William arrived South Island from England by 1871. Possibly became a merchant in Invercargill by 1881. Marriage/children unknown.
His elder brother John arrived South Island from England 1883/4. Possibly a merchant also in Invercargill. Married Ann Agatha Watson (in UK) prior to arrival.
Two children - Winifred Annie and Duncan.
Does anybody have information about William &/or John and their descendants?
Roderick McPherson
Victoria
Australia
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Hi Roderick,
Do either of these men have middle names and do you have year of birth for them, to help our search,
Cheers Janette
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A William McPherson is shown on 1875 Electoral Roll for Invercargill, section block and store in Esk Street.
On 1890 Roll a John McPherson appears as 'bootmaker' (no address) and a John Macpherson at Appleby as merchant. No sign of William.
John B
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Hi Janette,
They didn't have middle names. John born 11 Aug 1839 & William in Jan 1848. Both in Hobart, Tasmania.
Before emmigrating to NZ John owned a paper mill in Gloucestershire.
Their father, Duncan established a mercantile business in Hobart before
returning to UK in 1863, with 2nd wife and family, leaving eldest son to run the business in Hobart.
Hi John B,
Thanks for that information. The William is probably right - a William was listed in 1881 electoral roll as merchant in Invercargill. John most likely the Invercargill merchant listed in 1890 PO directory & local counsillor in 1905.
Hoping to learn more!!
Roderick
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Hi Roderick
Just wanted to make sure I had this correct ? :)
John and William both born Hobart, TAS.
They returned c. 1863 to UK with their parents ... then John and William came (separately) from UK to New Zealand ?
* How is that you know that both were in Invercargill ??
Cheers
~ Lu
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His elder brother John arrived South Island from England 1883/4. Possibly a merchant also in Invercargill. Married Ann Agatha Watson (in UK) prior to arrival.
Mmm ... can't see a listing at FREE BMD for this marriage ?
~ Lu
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Hi Roderick,
I don't see a death for Ann Agatha McPherson in NZ BDM's
Cheers Janette
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Hi again Roderick
Ah .... have just found some items of interest for this MacPHERSON (McPHERSON) family. Need to do a bit more investigating firstly, so will post shortly.
Forget my earlier question re: Invercargill. ;)
~ Lu
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Hi Roderick
Afraid I haven't (as yet) been able to identify your particular MacPHERSON men amongst those who were in Southland.
Focusing on John MacPHERSON; there's seems to have been a number of them - a farmer / a publican / a fireman etc. ::)
There was a John MacPHERSON at Invercargill c. 1883 who had a business "MacPHERSON and Co." which sold beer, wine and spirits, farming supplies. It seems though this may have been the same man who back in 1867 (at Invercargill ) was the owner of a ship and was also described as "a merchant, sole partner of, and carrying on business as, under the style or firm of MacPHERSON and Company". [That info sourced from a number of newspaper articles - PapersPast website.]
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
"Southland Times" - 19 July 1867 - page 6 -- column 3
Of course if you have UK census information that shows your John MacPHERSON as being "elsewhere" between 1867 and 1883, then the above is not applicable.
There was also a John MacPHERSON carrying on trade in the boot and shoe business at Dee Street, Invercargill in 1891. ??
"Southland Times" - 18 September 1891 - page 4 -- column 1
[Advertisement for Premier Boot Depot. ]
But it does seem that someone from this MacPHERSON family was in Southland at least in August 1882.
see next >>
~ Lu
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... again from PapersPast :
"Southland Times" - 24 August 1882 - DEATH
MacPHERSON - on 27th June at Aylesmore House, St. Briavels, Gloucestershire, Duncan MacPHERSON .... formerly of Hobart, Tasmania, aged 71.
I take it this was perhaps the father of your John and William ??
~ Lu
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Interestingly, a similar death notice for this Duncan MacPHERSON, also appeared in an Australian newspaper :
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home
"The Mercury" (Hobart) - 12 August 1882 - page 1 S
"MacPHERSON - on 27th June at Aylesmore House, St. Briavels, Gloucestershire, the residence of his son, Duncan MacPHERSON, of Ashfield, Sandy Bay, Hobart Town, aged 71 " :
* Do you know which of the sons lived at above address in Gloucester ?
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Obviously not sure what info you might already have from Australian newspapers ?
But the following tends to suggest that John MacPHERSON, (and I'm assuming this is the person you are seeking to find in NZ ?) ... had already returned to UK ... from Invercargill NZ ?
"The Argus" (Melbourne) - 26 February 1880 - page 1
DEATH
On 22 December - Isabella Watson MacPHERSON aged 14 years, eldest daughter of John MacPHERSON Esq. of Aylesmore House, St. Briavels and the Cone Paper Mill, Sydeny, Gloucestershire, and South Tyne Paper Mill, Hexham, late of Invercargill New Zealand, Melbourne, Victoria and Hobart Town, Tasmania :
~ Lu
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oops, sorry ... "typo" in last reply .... should read >>
"Cone Paper Mill, Sydney, Gloucestershire"
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Hi again Roderick
So I guess that the publication of death notice for Isabella Watson MacPHERSON in a Mebourne newspaper, was to advise family members who were living in Vic. ?
The death rego. is at FREE BMD (UK)
DEATH - DEC - 1879
MacPHERSON - Isabella Watson
Reg'd. Chepstow (boundary of Gloucestershire & Monmouthshire)
Aside from not finding the marriage of John MacPHERSON to Ann Agatha WATSON, also can't see on NZ or UK indexes, the birth (c. 1866) of this Isabella ??
* Is it possible the marriage and birth of children of John and Ann Agatha, took place in Australia ??
~ Lu
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His elder brother John arrived South Island from England 1883/4. Possibly a merchant also in Invercargill. Married Ann Agatha Watson (in UK) prior to arrival.
Two children - Winifred Annie and Duncan.
I suspect the following marriage is that of son, Duncan ?
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
"Southland Times" - 21 March 1896 - page 2
MacPHERSON - GARDNER -- 17th March 1896 at Birchwood, ..... Duncan MacPHERSON, surveyor, eldest son of John MacPHERSON, late of Invercargill :
NZ Marriage Index
Isabella Ormond GARDNER - Duncan MacPHERSON - 1896
~ Lu
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Duncan MacPHERSON, surveyor, s/o John MacPHERSON :
PapersPast ...
"Southland Times" - 27 February 1903 - page 2
-- Honouring Mr Duncan MacPherson
This is a rather long article which I haven't read very thoroughly :D ... but seems it could well be Duncan the surveyor (s/o John) ? [He is moving in 1903 to the Survey Department in Nelson. ]
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Children of Duncan MacPHERSON & Isabella Ormond GARDNER :
NZ Births
1899 - MacPHERSON - Mary Inaha
1901 - MacPHERSON - Annie Ione
1906 - MacPHERSON - Elizabeth Struan
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Mmm ... I wonder if Duncan & Isabella Ormond MacPHERSON perhaps moved to Australia sometime after 1906 ?
Can't see a death in NZ for Isabella Ormond ... nor deaths or marriages for any of the daughters (marriages to 1956 checked). ???
~ Lu
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Ah ... have just found Isabella Ormond on NZ electoral rolls (index) ... she's still here in 1938.
Will check further :
~ Lu
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oops .... I didn't do a very thorough check of NZ death records. :-[ Two MacPHERSON daughters possibly did not marry ... have just found them on electoral rolls.
Back to the indexes. :D
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NZ Births
1899 - MacPHERSON - Mary Inaha
1906 - MacPHERSON - Elizabeth Struan
NZ Deaths
1975 - MacPHERSON - Mary Inaha - d.o.b. 18 November 1898
1995 - MacPHERSON - Elizabeth Straun [sic] - d.o.b. 22 June 1906
So it would seem, no descendants here ? :(
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Gosh, I'm not making a very good job with "look-ups" tonight ... still, it's a late hour here. ;D
Have now found a marriage for the other daughter :
Anne Ione MacPHERSON - Ivor William ANDERSON - 1928
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Anne Ione ANDERSON (nee MacPHERSON) died 1988 - d.o.b. 16 January 1901.
Her husband, Ivor William ANDERSON - died 1968.
A probate record held at Archives New Zealand (Dunedin Office) shows he was a stock agent of East Taieri.
[The Dunedin cemeteries database is out of action at present so haven't checked for burial/cremation records. ]
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Duncan MacPHERSON died 11 October 1954 aged 81 years (bc 1873).
He is buried with his wife Isabella Ormond MacPHERSON (d. 1941) at Palmerston North.
Go to following link for cemetery records >>
http://www.palmerstonnorth.com/
> Click on Services and Facilities >> "Online Services" > cemetery search.
There is a photo of headstone (see entry for Isabella) - M/I is a little difficult to read.
Obviously I can't guarantee that this Duncan MacPHERSON is the s/o "your" John MacPHERSON. I'm only going by the marriage notice found in the newspaper (1896) which stated his father was " John MacPherson, Merchant, late of Invercargill". ;)
[Purchasing the NZ marriage record (printout) for this MacPHERSON/GARDNER (1896) would enable you to confirm you have the correct "family". ]
~ Lu
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On the headstone of Duncan and Isabella Ormond MacPHERSON at Palmerston North, a "John MacPHERSON" is also mentioned.
As I said, it's rather difficult to read the inscription, but it seems that "John" was their son.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
"Evening Post" - 8 January 1942 - Air Casualties
MacPHERSON - John
Sgt. RNZAF -- killed in air operations
(N.o.K.) Mr Duncan MacPHERSON, 16 Langston Ave, Palmerston North :
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Hi Lu
Many thanks indeed!! The info is changing my original working hypothesis as to when William & John arrived in NZ. I didn't mention that John was previously in NZ in 1870/71 when dau Winifred was born. I had assumed he & Ann were visiting William (their father Duncan was known to have visited Hobart, from London, in 1870 so I thought it possible that John decided to accompany him). Now with the info that a John was in Invercargill in 1867 I'm wondering if my John was in fact living there. In which case he returned to Northumberland by 1873 when son Duncan was born. Then to St Briavels Gloucestershire, 1878/79, and a year after his father's death (1882), sold up and returned to NZ (1883). They were a family inclined to move about! Then in Duncan's marriage notice (1896) his father John is described as "late" of Invercargill - where did he go? or had he died?
William definitely in Invercargill 1881/82 because my grandfather, also Duncan, moved there from Hobart at that time (won sports medals with his name, Invercargill & the dates) my late uncle believed he went to work for an uncle & my late father recalled a suitcase covered in shipping labels for numerous trips between NZ & Sydney. So William had to be in business.
My grandfather subsequently moved to NSW! & married in 1918.
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I looked up the grave photo and the John was definitely Duncan's son because it refers to his death in 1941 on air operations.
I also obtained a copy of the article re Duncan moving to Nelson which I found most interesting.
Re the publication of a death notice for Isabella in a Melbourne paper - no known McPherson family members in Victoria in 1880 but certainly family/business contacts. I also checked Victorian bdm's for a possible marriage of John & Ann and/or birth of Isabella but no record so still a mystery! If John and family did live in Melbourne it must have been a short stay.
And William remains a mystery. Given that his nephew (my grandfather) moved to NSW I checked for a death record there for William but no record.
Cheers
Roderick
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Well, well, well!!!!!
I think I've traced John - to San Diego, California!!!!!
Trawling the Southland Times on paperspast I found the following:
Southland Times 28 Jan 1899 page 3
"Bluff Harbour Board Friday 27 Jan Monthly Meeting
Mr John Macpherson, formerly resident of Southland for many years
and then a member of the Board, wrote from San Diego, California, re
the new coating for for wharf piles....."
The story becomes curiouser & curiouser!! Where to next??
Cheers
Roderick
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Hi Roderick
I've only concentrated on finding info for John MacPHERSON to date. When I have a little more time, will see what can be found for William. ;)
Don't think you gave us a birth year for John's son Duncan ?? ... but having just checked the 1881 UK census, I see he was born 1873, so appears to be the man marrying in 1896. :) (Had had some earlier doubts, as there seems to have been a number of John MacPHERSON's with business connections to Southland and Otago.)
~ Lu
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Re the publication of a death notice for Isabella in a Melbourne paper - no known McPherson family members in Victoria in 1880 but certainly family/business contacts. I also checked Victorian bdm's for a possible marriage of John & Ann and/or birth of Isabella but no record so still a mystery! If John and family did live in Melbourne it must have been a short stay.
Hi again Roderick
NZ BIRTHS - indexed as "McPHERSON"
1865 - McPHERSON - Isabella Watson
1869 - McPHERSON - Winifred Annie
~ Lu
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Hi Lu
I think Isabella's birth in NZ confirms we have been looking at the same
John, not withstanding his sojourn in England during the 1870's.
The Mc/Mac variation does complicate online searching!! I don't always
remember to factor that in.
Cheers
Roderick
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Hi Roderick, this chain is old so you may not see this. I'm a relative of of Anne Ione Macpherson and have some interesting family info i'd be happy to share. How has your search progressed on William Macpherson over the years? -Rob
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In case others come across this thread. Here is my understanding of what happened to some of the MacPhersons from Tasmania, mainly John (b.1839). They certainly were Scottish travellers!
Duncan MacPherson senior (b.1810) returned to the UK from Tasmania in 1863 (he was 53) after running a successful Mercantile business. He returned the the UK with 2nd wife and children (William age 14, Isabella Ann 19, John 24 ). He left his oldest son Duncan in Tasmania to run the business.
Duncan seniors, son, John (b.1839) married Anne (Annie) Agatha Wilson (b 25 May 1841 in Edinburgh) on 12 Jan 1864. She was the sister of the successful Scottish industrialist David Wilson from Dundee who ran the Bullionfield paper mill and built the still standing Greystane manor which is now a hotel. (Interestingly David Wilson spent some of his youth in the Victorian gold fields where he was able to make a start for himself before returning to Scotland). John and his new wife Annie returned to NZ in 1864, to Invercargill and setup a mercantile business. His younger brother William may have returned with them to NZ. They had 3 children in NZ (Isabel b.1865, Margaret 1867, Winifred 1869). After John’s sister Isabelle died in the UK in 1870, John and family returned to the UK in 1872. William stayed in NZ to manage the mercantile business.
John and family stayed in the UK for 13 years, 4th child Duncan was born in Northumberland in 1873. They had moved to St Briavels Gloucestershire, 1878/79. John bought the Cone Paper mill in 1879 which he worked until 1884 when he sold it. Sadly, Johns daughter Isabel had died Dec 22 1879 in Aylesmore Gloucestershire, his father Duncan died in 1882 also in Gloucestershire.
John, his wife and three remaining children then moved back to NZ in 1884 and resumed business in Invercargill with his brother William who was still there. John was involved in the rescue of the survivors from the shipwreck Grafton in 1884, we still have the silver plate presented to John from the U.S government thanking him for his help. John and family stayed in NZ until in 1891 when John, Annie and daughters all moved to San Diego, California. Only the son Duncan remained in NZ. John and Annie both lived the rest of their lives in San Diego, the two daughters married Americans. Duncan (b.1873) lived the rest of his life in NZ, he married a ms.Gardner and lived on Rye St, Otautau. They had three children Mary Inaha (known as Weira 1898-1975), Anne Ione (my grandmother 1901-1988), Elizabeth Struan (1906-1995) John (1916 in Otautau-1941 died over Rangoon Burma in WW2). Duncan's descendants are still mainly in NZ and AU.