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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Denbighshire => Wales => Denbighshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Doublecourt on Sunday 24 April 11 21:22 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I'm looking for a marriage of a Thomas Hughes to a Susannah in Llangollen area, probably Fron or Glyn Ceiriog? The marriage would have been sometime between 1882 and 1888. Thomas was born in 1864 and Susannah around 1866. She died in August 1888, we think after having a child and is buried in Fron.
I can't find them in the BMD Index, there must be an error in the transcriptions - any help in identifying her would be much appreciated.
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Hi
I've checked on the local North Wales BMD 1882-88 and don't see a marriage either. The marriage should be registered in the Corwen RD but I've also checked Oswestry and Wrexham as the neighbouring Reg Districts and, so far, I don't see them. I'll have another look when my laptop is charged up.
I assume that you don't have a birth reg for the child which might show Susannah's maiden name?
gnu
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Hi Doublecourt,
North Wales BMD gives a marriage of Thomas Hughes to Susannah Davies/Martha Cartwright
St John, Rhosymedre 1880 C39/02/139
http://www.northwalesbmd.org.uk/cgi/marrind.cgi?county=northwales
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If it was in Rhosymedre, I'll check my Church records tomorrow/Tuesday. I didn't check so early as Susannah would have been 14 :-\
gnu
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It's getting late and I hadn't bothered to work out her age! I totally agree, although 14 would've been legal, not very likely ::)
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Death of Susannah Hughes Sept q, 1888, Wrexham vol 11b page 170. Aged 22 - therefore born circa 1866 as stated.
gnu
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Thanks to all for trying, but Thomas was still single in 1881, so not that pair.
I don't have a birth record for their child - I can't identify who it was. They may have had a child called Maggie J, born anywhere from 1886. She is 4 in 1891, but 11 in 1901.
My hunch is that she was Susannah Williams or Susannah Matthews, both bn in 1866. One of them marries in Ruthin dist and all I can find is an entry for a Thomas on the previous page - bit of a long shot. The other marries in Wrexham, but can't see any Hughes's.
Anyone out there with access to parish records for Fron/llangollen?
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I don't have them that late - only the Rhosymedre ones. I'll see if someone might be going to the records office to check for you :)
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Many thanks. It would solve a mystery..Thomas is my Gt Grandfather - he had three wives in the end. susannah was the first.
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You say your Thomas Hughes was single in 1881?Where was he living then?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Hi again
If this is the family with Maggie J in 1891, I'm not sure how your info ties up:
1891
RG12/4637/101/23
Penygraig, Froncysyllte
Robert Hughes, 62, brickmaker, b. Glynceiriog
Margaret, 58, b. Llangollen
Thomas, son, widower, 22, collier b.Llangollen (1871 census has him as 6. 1881 as 16 and the 1901 has him as 36)
Maggie J, niece, 4, b. Lancashire, Tyldesley*
gnu
* but showing as granddaughter on the 1891!
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I assume that you don't have a birth reg for the child which might show Susannah's maiden name?
I think that this might br Maggie J's birth reg:
Margaret Jane Hughes, Jun q, 1886, Leigh, vol 8c page 299
This would give her parents' names
Tyldesley was in the Leigh RD
gnu
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You say your Thomas Hughes was single in 1881?Where was he living then?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
In Fron with parents -
RG11/5540/115/22
gnu
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Before gnu found the possible Birth and Census info for the child Maggie J Hughes,I looked for a possible marriage for a Thomas Hughes to a Susannah in the 1880's on UKBMD.UKBMD covers North Wales,Cheshire and Lancashire.There are not too many showing,but one looks even more of interest now.It is of a Thomas Hughes and a Susannah Jones at Bolton,given as a Bolton Registry Office or Registrar Attended in 1886.Bolton is no more than about ten miles from Tyldesley.
Whilst of course this is highly speculative perhaps,the GRO equivalent for this marriage is Bolton Registration District 1886,Jan/Feb/Mar quarter,Volume 8c,Page 490.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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If Maggie J was born in Tyldesley, could the parents have married there?
I've found two 'outside possibles'
June q 1886, Liverpool, v. 8b p 185
Thomas David Hughes and Susannah Eaton on same page
June q 1887, Manchester, v. 8d p 317
Thomas Owen Hughes and Susannah Chapman on same page
Nothing closer to Tyldesley though :-\
gnu
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Think we posted together WR - yours look a strong poss :)
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Have a look at Susannah Jones on the 1881
RG11/5514/68/21 Cefn Mawr
a possible - Mother was Margaret
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Yes as ever,with the possible Susannah Jones' there are two born in Ruabon c 1866,the other one is a servant at Trevor Mill in 1881.The one with the mother Margaret can be found before,the servant I can see no sign of before.I can see neither after 1881.
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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Not an easy one to trace :(
I think that getting hold of the birth cert of Margaret Jane is the only way forward.
gnu
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Maggie J might not be Thomas's daughter - perhaps another family member, I don't know. The Census info is definitely the right family, but there are obviously mistakes in it. All I know is that susannah died having a child - I can't make out if they already had Maggie J and the second one died, or she survived, or what!
The whole Hughes family is a mystery really - Thomas's father Robert Hughes was apparently found on a beach!
Thanks for doing so much digging - I might get that birth cert. to find out who Maggie J is at least..
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Where did it say that Robert was found on a beach? I've got the earlier Llangollen/Glyn records so if we can identify Robert, I may be able to go back further for you.
You no doubt realise Glyn is nowhere near the sea ;D
Also, how far back on the censuses do you have Robert?
gnu
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It was one of his grandchildren who suggested he was found on a beach, and yes it seems bizarre since Glyn is nowhere near a beach.
I have only been able to identify him for sure in the 1871 Census in llangollen, RG10/5682 Page 117. We have a family bible that says he was born 7 May 1828. I looked for him a long time ago, but couldn't find a good candidate for him.
Any help greatly appreciated!
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Maybe a birth registration of their children is a way forward ~
1871
RG10/5682/117/22
Llwybyr ? Iath, Froncysyllte
Robert Hughes, 44, puddler in forge
Margaret, 38
Edward, 13
Benjamin, 9
Thomas, 6
Margaret, 4
Catherine,11 months
All born Llangollen parish
Most likely birth reg for Catherine is
June q, 1870, Corwen, v 11b p 447
I thought that Benjamin might be easy but not sure about the registrations
gnu
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I've got Thomas's birth certificate. His mother was Margaret Roberts, but I haven't been able to find out anymore about them. I can't find their marriage either. First child born 1855 in Llangollen, Mary.
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Well I'm not finding Edward c 1858 or Mary in 1861?
Regards
William Russell Jones.
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I haven't found any of the family in 1861 or 1851 so if you've found any of them that would be a step forward.
I think they appear in the family bible - Mary bn 7 Jun 1855 and Edward 8 Oct 1857. Edward appears in the later census, but Mary may have been working so away from home and I would imagine there are a few Marys about.
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I've just been checking up on Fron in 1861 on the address search on two sites. Fron doesn't seem to be included. Are they amongst the missing 1861 pieces?
gnu
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Yep, Cysyllte is missing in 1861:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/clwyd/2005-08/1124999345
Thought I'd seen it somewhere
gnu
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There is a Robert Hughes/Margaret Roberts poss marriage in Ffestiniog Jun q, 1855 but not sure that they would have married there.
The only marriage that I can see in the 1851-1858 period in Corwen RD for a Robert Hughes to a Margaret is to a margaret Williams - Dec q, 1856, Corwen v 11b, p 732.
Is it possible that she was previously married?
I'm not sure that there's more to find online :-\
gnu
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Maybe, I found that record too, but when you see it in the flesh, it is crossed out! Which would have been her maiden name, Roberts or Williams? She's Roberts on Thomas's birth cert. Will consider the ffestiniog one..
Thanks ever so much. Robert and Susannah will always be a mystery I think.
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Maybe, I found that record too, but when you see it in the flesh, it is crossed out!
The North Wales BMD have the marriage taking place at St Collen, Llangollen. The four listed are:
Robert Hughes
Godfrey Jones
Margaret Williams
Mary Wilson
I've checked Godfrey on the 1861 and his spouse is listed as Mary.
gnu
(added - the Ffestiniog RD marriage took place at St Madryn, Trawsfynydd and is definitely to Margaret Roberts according to the NW BMD)
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Thanks.
So I think I will have to try the Ffestiniog route - it's the only avenue left to try.