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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: murray12 on Saturday 23 April 11 11:20 BST (UK)
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Hello
I'm hoping if someone could help me find Margaret Brown born around 1862 in Lanarkshire, Scotland - at either Glasgow, Hamilton or Holytown. On this basis she would probably have been in 5 - 12 age group at the time.
She was daughter of John Brown a coal miner and Jane Gillan both deceased in 1881.
She may have been born illegitimate as there is no record so far of parents marriage.
I cannot seem to find her and your help would be appreciated - thanks in advance.
Drew
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Hi murray12
what about this one ???
1871
Hutchesontown
Glasgow Govan
Lanarkshire
108 Rutherglen Road
John Brown 38 Head, Govan, Renfrewshire, Powerloom Tenter
Jane Brown 34 wife, West Kilbride, Ayrshire
Margaret Brown 10 Daughter, Glasgow, Lanarkshire. Scholar
George Brown 5 son, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
John Brown 3 son, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Jane Brown 9 MO daughter, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Jackie
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sorry just re-read your post you have john as a coal miner
not a Powerloom Tenter
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Hi Jackie
Thanks - I think she was probably born in Lanarkshire given the mining reference
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Do you have sight of John's death certificate from Scotlands People? I ask because that should give you a good idea of where the family lived and exactly what he did, and there are a fair few families to choose from.
My eye was drawn to this one because it's New Monkland, and that's a very heavy mining area:
John Brown 40
Jane Brown 39
Archa Jane Brown 17 (sic, you'd need to look at the original on SP to see if that really is what it says)
Margaret Thomas Brown 6 (born in New Monkland)
Isabella Brown 3
John is a Colliery Manager
They live at No 9 Gavil, New Monkland
Ref: Parish: New Monkland; ED: 6; Page: 50; Line: 12; Roll: CSSCT1871_147; Year: 1871
If John and Jane have a daughter age 17 it can mean that Jane is a second wife (big gap between the girls) or that John and Jane married a lot earlier than Margaret's birth would indicate (that's even assuming they might be your family)
Can you post what you have from the deaths of John and Jane, because it will help distinguish one Brown family from another?
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Hi
Sadly, I don't have any info about John and Janes's deaths. On Margaret's marriage certificate in 1881(Glasgow) they are noted as "deceased". That is all the info I have I'm afraid. I haven't been able to find Jane especially on Scotlandspeople.
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I did wonder if Jane Gillan remained unmarried and might have appeared under her name in 1871?
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There's also this one, which might fit better with your Holytown information:
John Brown age 60, born Bothwell Lanarkshire, Miner
Agnes Brown, 20, his daughter
Margaret Brown, 10, his daughter
Henry Brown 9, Thomas Brown 6, Catherine Brown 4 - all listed as children of John.
No mother visible.
All born in Bothwell, which is in the registration district of Holytown.
The family live at E & G Turnpike Road, Bothwell.
Reference is: Parish: Bothwell; ED: 3; Page: 8; Line: 1; Roll: CSSCT1871_118; Year: 1871
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Never mind Murray12, everything has to start somewhere and that's what the people on this board love - a challenge!
If you have sight of Margaret's marriage certificate can you please post everything it says - date, name of groom, addresses they were living at, details of parents, the lot. At least that way we have something to start with.
Can you also confirm why you think one, or both of them (John and Jane) were alive in 1871? If you've got something to confirm that it will help, otherwise it might be we are looking for Margaret who is already orphaned and not living with a John and Jane at all.
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Assuming (and that's all we can do) for now that the second census entry might be your Margaret, then John was alive, but around 60. No sign of Jane.
There is a death on SP for a John Brown in Bothwell, age 63, in Bothwell in 1876. If he was 60 on census day and if it's the same man he would have been 65 in 1876, but then if there are different people giving the information a 2 year gap is quite reasonable.
The only other 2 John Brown deaths in Bothwell between the 1871 census and your 1811 marriage certificate are a child, and a man age 35.
What intrigues me is the age of the youngest children in 1871 against the age of the father.
It might be worth looking at that death certificate (ref is 625/01 0231) and see if it rings any bells, but before you do that and spend another 5 credits, do post what you have from Margaret's marriage.
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Hi
The marriage details are - Partick 1881 - Groom John Carrick - address in Partick - age 21
Margaret - blechfield worker - 15 Grace Street, Partick - age 20 - parents as mentioned previously.
Witnesses are two people called Gray.
Think that's it
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To be honest, I don't know if John and or Jane were alive in 1871. They could both have died before the census was taken.
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Aren't John Carrick's parents mentioned at all? I know it's a very long shot but sometimes the two families might be from the same area. About Margaret's parents, you says 'as before' From what you have written I would expect
'John Brown, Miner, deceased
Jane Brown MS Gillan deceased'
Please let us know if that deviates in any way from what the certificate shows.
You thought Margaret was born in Holytown, Hamilton or Glasgow, but she's married in Partick so what was the reason you thought Holytown or Hamilton might come into it?
I know I sound as if I'm interrogating you, but honesty I'm just trying to help! Sometimes it's just the odd word that makes all the difference
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Hi again
John Carrick's parents are William Carrick and Rebecca Barlow
I found John and Margaret in the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses. In 1891 and 1901 Margaret gives her birthplace as Glasgow - bit in 1911 it is given as Holytown. Margaret died in 1911.
On her death certificate John her husband gave her parents names as John Brown and Margaret Ferguson - different mother from the marriage certificate!!!!!!!!
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Now that is interesting, because it may be that John Brown married twice.
There's a marriage between John Brown and Margaret Ferguson in Glasgow in 1864 in Glasgow Central. By my reckoning Margaret would be around 2 or 3 at that point. Ref is 644/01 0183 if you want to see what else it says, because with luck it will give you an address, and details of whether this John was a miner, plus details of his parents.
If Margaret was the daughter of a Jane Gillan who died when she was small she might list her mother on her marriage certificate, but an informant in 1911 who had known her stepmother might think of her instead. Not proven, but anything is possible.
Was the wording around Margaret's parents what I'd thought earlier? In particular it matters whether Jane was listed as Jane Brown MS Gillan or Jane Gillan. I know these seem petty questions but they often hold the clue to finding answers.
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Hi
I have the 1864 certificate. John is indeed a coal miner from Armadale - and is also listed as a bachelor.
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Oh and on the marriage certificate Jane is listed as Jane Brown ms Gillan
The informant in 1911 on the death cert was John Carrick - her husband
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Drew, sorry, just realised you'd put your name on your original posting.
As you say, it's confusing that Margaret's 2 pieces of definite information (marriage and death certificates) give two different mothers. You say you have the 1864 certificate for the marriage between John Brown and Margaret Ferguson, but I'm not at all clear if you think this could be your John Brown or not?
You mention he was a miner from Armadale. If you think he could be yours, how old was he at the time of the marriage? What was his address? If you post everything on that certificate it would be worth tracking John and Margaret in the 1871 census and seeing if there is a small girl called Margaret in their household. I did try just now but there are a lot to choose from so the details from the marriage certificate would help identify the family.
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Hi
Let me email the 1864 cert to you
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Maggie
Just sent you details on PM.
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Hi Maggie
Here it is
John Brown aged 25 - address Armadale, Bathgate - son of James Brown miner and Ann Brown ms Black
Margaret Ferguson age 27 address Dunoon - Alexander Ferguson powdermaker deceased and Christina Ferguson ms McNair
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Based on that, this could possibly (only possibly) be them on the 1871 census:
John Brown age 32. Miner. Born in Greenock, living at Fauld Head in the parish of Shotts, Lanarkshire
Margaret F. Brown, age 33. Born in Strathallan, Argyll.
Problem is that the two of them are living together but with no sign of any children, let alone a Margaret who would by then be around 11 years old.
Sadly that doesn't get us any further in the search for your Margaret. I do hope someone else out there has a bright idea I haven't thought of, because for now I think we'd need to go through all the Margaret Brown or Gillan births in 1860 +/- 2 years to look for any with Jane shown as her mother, and that would not only take a huge amount of time but it would cost a fair bit in credits as well.
Anyone spotting anything I've missed?
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I wonder if wee Margaret was visiting someone else lol
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What about this one?
1861, around the time Margaret was born:
John Brown, age 40. Miner. Born in Lanarkshire, living in Legbranock, Lanarkshire, which is in the Holytown registration district
Jane Brown, 32, born in Tyrone, Ireland
Children:
John age 16, Ann 10, Mary 4, William 3, Margaret 1, all born Bothwell/Holytown
Visitor: Mary Little, Visitor, 55 from Tyrone. She was a seamstress.
Now that last entry may mean that this Jane's MS was Little, but not necessarily
p.s. In fact it's isn't - I got ahead of myself and took a look, I really should know better. The birth that I think is for this Margaret Brown was on 03 April 1860, and the name of the mother had been Jean Viney. Jean/Jane is no problem, they are totally interchangeable, but I can't link Gillan to Viney, and I assume you looked at the original of the marriage certificate and are absolutely certain that 'Gillan' was what was written? Assuming you did, then this one is a no go as well unfortunately
p.p.s. In for a penny etc, so I just took a look at the marriage certificate to see if there was anything else.
Is this the one?
11 November 1881 at 2 Annfield Terrace, Partick
Margaret's address is given as 15 Grace Street, Partick, her huband's is 60 Castlebank Street, Partick
The witnesses are Agnes Carrick, presumably a relative of John's, and Mary Ann MClure, which may or may not help someone identify her., together with a Samuel Gray and a David Gray.
His parents are William Carrick, Ships Carpenter/Journeyman and Margaret Carrick MS Barlow. (not sure where the Rebecca is?)
I agree with you that Jane's MS is clearly written as Gillan, and can't have been mistranscribed from Viney.
Ah well, back to the drawingboard...
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The name is definately given as Gillan
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That is the certificate - there is an error as the grooms mother is definately Rebecca and NOT Margaret Barlow. - got evifence for that from marriage and earlier census.
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Maggie
I found this family in Old Monkland for 1851
GILLAN John Head M M 47 Coal Miner Lanarkshire - Shotts
GILLAN Elizabeth Wife M F 46 West Lothian - Whitburn
GILLAN John Son U M 20 Coal Miner Lanarkshire - New Monkland
GILLAN Robert Son U M 17 Coal Miner Lanarkshire - Old Monkland
GILLAN Grace Dau U F 15 Lanarkshire - Shotts
GILLAN Janet Dau U F 10 Scholar Lanarkshire - Bothwell
GILLAN James Lodger U M 21 Coal Miner Lanarkshire - Old Monkland
GILLAN John L Nephew U M 3 Lanarkshire - Old Monkland
GILLAN Peter Son U M 3 Lanarkshire - Old Monkland
A young JANE GILLAN aged 10 then - ???
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Drew, I think I’m now a bit confused about what is established and what is conjecture. Hopefully there will be other, more expert, people who can make suggestions so to summarise what we have so far:
Margaret Carrick, MS Brown or possibly Gillan, died in 1911 and on her death certificate her husband, John Carrick, gave her parents as John Brown and Margaret Ferguson.
You have tracked her in her marriage through the 1901 census back to her wedding, and she gives her place of birth variously as Holytown (1911) or Glasgow (1901, 1891)
On her wedding day in 1881 she gave her parents as John Brown and Jane Brown, MS Gillan, both deceased, and her age as 20 which would put her birth around 1861 +/- a year.
That is probably all that is confirmed.
- We’ve found possible candidates for her in the 1861 and 1871 census but we can’t prove which, if any, is her, and some of them have already been ruled out
- We haven’t managed to find a birth that fits what details we know, either as Margaret Brown or as Margaret Gillan, and neither have we been able to find deaths for John or Jane between Margaret’s birth and her marriage in 1881
- There is a marriage between a John Brown and a Margaret Ferguson in 1864, when John is listed as a Bachelor. If that is her father, it may be that Margaret is her stepmother and the young Margaret lived elsewhere, perhaps with her own mother Jane Gillan The information that her mother was Jane Brown MS Gillan came from Margaret herself and if her parents had not married she might not wish to publicise the fact in front of her new in-laws? That’s pure conjecture
I think I may have found Margaret on the 1881 census. She is a boarder, living with the Hainy family at 48 Douglas Street, Partick, working as a bleacher, which fits the information on her marriage certificate, though it is not the address she married from. So far, so good, but Margaret’s age, the month before her wedding, is given as 18. Her place of birth is given as Hamilton and there are no identifiable relatives in the household. Reference is Parish: Partick; ED: 5; Page: 30; Line: 13; Roll: cssct1881_257; Year: 1881.
That might mean her birth was nearer 1863 than 1861, but it can also mean that the enumerator was given the information by Mr or Mrs Hainy who may have guessed her birth date and place.
Trying the same search for Margaret Gillan yields nothing – there is a Margaret Gillan in Partick but she is a dressmaker, living with her parents who are co-incidentally John and Margaret but that’s John Gillan not John Brown. Plus the fact that a dressmaker was a better position than a bleach worker, so unlikely to have taken a downhill career trajectory in one month.
Not sure what to make of all this, but one possible theory might be that Margaret was born to John Brown and Jane Gillan in the early 1860s. John Brown then may have been the bachelor who married Margaret Ferguson in 1864. If Jane and John had both died by 1881 when Margaret married but her stepmother lived on that might explain why Margaret Ferguson was given as her mother on the death certificate - the information was given by her husband, not by Margaret herself.
I’m hoping that some of the Lanarkshire experts can come in here and see if that hypothesis bears water, or if I’ve missed something.
Everybody - help please!
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Hi Maggie
Your right about the facts so far. I also agree with your analysis and theory regarding Margaret's birth. It would be helpful to find her in the 1871 census. As you say, the best theory is that she was living with her mother at that time as the father had married in 1864.
Thanks for everything to date -really appreciate it.
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Welcome to Rootschat, Richard5588.
Not sure if you posted on this thread because it is of interest to you or if you just came across it, which is how so many of us find the site.
Do take a look around the site and feel free to add any information you have to any of the threads. Alternatively if you have questions, post them - lots of people happy to help.
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Apologies for starting another thread earlier today.
Reply #23 on: Saturday 23 April 11 14:29 BST (UK
Maggie - following on from your post
I since discovered Margaret Brown applied for poor relief in 1886 when she said she was 24. In that she gives her parents names as John Brown a coal miner and Jane Devine. I found an entry of marriage in 1856 for these two in Newarthill, Bothwell. But still trying to track down Birth record for Margaret.
You mention a Jean Viney being mother to a Margaret Brown in 1860. Viney sounds like Devine - could this be linked or is there another birth record for Margaret in 1861 - 1863 showing these parents?
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Drew, I think this is the family entry for the family where mum Jane shows with maiden name Viney:
John Brown 40 coal miner b. Lanarkshire
Jane Brown 32 b. Tyrone, Ireland
John Brown 16
Ann Brown 10
Mary Brown 4...Forgie for mum's maiden name? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ4B-RPR
William Brown 3 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQYV-158
Margaret Brown 1 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQHM-P8W
Mary Little 55 visitor Co Tyrone Ireland
Address: Legbranock, Holytown, Bothwell
Monica
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...In that she gives her parents names as John Brown a coal miner and Jane Devine. I found an entry of marriage in 1856 for these two in Newarthill, Bothwell. But still trying to track down Birth record for Margaret...
Have you looked at the original marriage entry on SP to see what that said? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTT1-Z8Q
Monica
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Hi Monica
I have looked at the 1856 marriage cert. John Brown was married before. Previous wife's name not given.
In the poor law application in 1886 Margaret Brown states that John Brown and Jane Devine are both dead. Strange 5 years before on her wedding cert. she gives mother's name as Jane Gillan. Very strange.
I need to find Margaret's birth c1862
drew
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This name Viney - could this have been mistranscribed given incorrectly - too much of a coincidence?
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What was the address of John and Jane when they married?
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Hello
Whiteygreens or Whitegreen, Newarthill. They may have been miners rows - houses on site for miners.
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Hello
Whiteygreens or Whitegreen, Newarthill. They may have been miners rows - houses on site for miners.
Yes, 2 rows of houses that were demolished in the 40/50s
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Thank you Sancti.I wonder if the name Viney and Devine are the same person?
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1851 census has John living at Legbrannock with wife Ann and son John aged 5
Have you searched for a death of Ann 1855/56
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No I haven't. Been concentrating on trying to find Margaret's birth.
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That 1856 marriage that you have, can you add a few more details here please.
What were their ages; parents' names; witnesses names; what type of service/religeous denomination do you think the couple were; what was Jane Devine's occupation at the time of her marriage in 1856?
Sorry, Drew. Always lots more questions aren't there!
Monica
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Hi Monica
Here is info you asjed about
John Brown aged 40 son of Henry and Margaret Mackie - occupation coal miner
It says it is his second marruage.
Jane Devine aged 28 daughter of father named as simply "Devine" - mother Jane Lambie
occupation field worker?
This is all based on the premise that Margaret Brown gave the correct mothers name on the Poor Law application in 1886.
Drew
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One of the big problems with this search...and there's a couple ::)... has been how inconsistent Margaret's mother's maiden surname has been on records. You can understand really why Margaret's husband made errors with his wife's mother's name when he reported her death years later.
So far, from what I think you have here, are the following surnames:
Gillan
Ferguson
Devine
Viney
What is clear though is that Margaret Brown was always consistent about her father being a John Brown, a coal miner who like her mother had died by the time she married John Carrick in 1881.
Maggie did so much work on this thread earlier on ;)
Just in summary of the certs you have discussed here (I think Maggie also sent you some along the way):
1856 Marriage of a John Brown, widower and a Jane Devine - if you could just add some more details as mentioned above, it would help now I think.
1860 Birth of a Margaret Brown to a John Brown and Jane Viney in Bothwell - Maggie sent you this earlier I think from what I read here.
1881 Marriage of your Margaret Brown to John Carrick.
1891-1911 Censuses for Margaret Brown/Carrick.
1911 Death for Margaret, reported by husband John Carrick.
Monica
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Absolutely correct Monica.
I find it strange that the mother's name can vary so much!
Drew
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Jane Devine aged 28 daughter of father named as simply "Devine" - mother Jane Lambie
occupation field worker?
This is all based on the premise that Margaret Brown gave the correct mothers name on the Poor Law application in 1886.
Might be a little chink of light to confirm that the family you and Maggie had been discussing are the correct family for your Margaret.
This is a snip from the death cert from 1871 for Jane Brown....now with maiden name Ferguson ::) Her father showing as a William Ferguson. From Jane Devine's marriage cert, likely she was illegitimate? This might go some way to explaining some of the confusion on surnames maybe?
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Looks good Monica
Margaret's daighter, my ancestor born 1883 is called Mary Ferguson Carrick
Do you think Margaret is the one born in 1860 to Jane Viney or is it someone else?
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I think there is only one Jane from the marriage in 1856 to her death in 1871. Not sure why all the surnames. Your links are with Jane's mother's name of Mary Lambie on both her 1856 marriage to John Brown and then her death, reported by John Brown, in 1871 naming the same mother for her and including likely the reputed father's name of William Ferguson.
Maybe her mother Mary Lambie went on to marry etc and things all got confusing too for her. Next generation down, Margaret, and she too seems to be confused about her mother's maiden name.
If you, I would sit now with all the docs you have on a table and check further all the details including all address etc. It seems the Browns were pretty static around the Bothwell area...which at least is something for a coal mining family!
Just summarising from the thread a little more, from the details Maggie posted previously:
1856: Marriage of John Brown to Jane Devine.
1860: Margaret's birth 3 April 1860, mother showing as Jean Viney. What was the address for the birth?
1861: census for the Browns at Legbranock, Holytown, Bothwell,
1871: just before the census, Jane Brown's death as discussed, with family still at Legbranock.
1871: John, and children, following Jane's recent death, living still in Bothwell
1876: Maggie mentioned a possible death for a John Brown in Bothwell, age 63, in Bothwell. Might be worth checking that now to see if it correct?
1881: Margaret married John Carrick - in Nov I think?
Monica
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All good points Monica. I will review.
On the 1881 marriage for Margaret and John Carrick - noth parents are dead. So 1876 for Jogn seems likely.
1861 - havent seen that address
1860 - birth I havent seen the actual entry where mother is named as Viney
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Highlighting again the confusion on surnames for Jane...
She married John Brown in early February 1856 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTT1-Z8Q as you have and then first born daughter is a Mary Brown (maybe called after her mother?) but in this entry, Jane's surname is showing as FORGIE https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ4B-RPR (a ref to Ferguson?).
I must have misunderstood. Maggie made a reference to the 1860 birth that she had seen for Margaret Brown, might have just been from the index. I certainly think it is worth looking at on SP for you now :)
Monica
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by 1860 you mean where Viney is the mother?
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Yes, that is the one.
This is the 1861 census entry we have been looking at for Margaret's family. From earlier:
John Brown 40 coal miner b. Lanarkshire
Jane Brown 32 b. Tyrone, Ireland
John Brown 16
Ann Brown 10
Mary Brown 4...Forgie for mum's maiden name? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ4B-RPR
William Brown 3 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQYV-158
Margaret Brown 1 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQHM-P8W
Mary Little 55 visitor Co Tyrone Ireland
Address: Legbranock, Holytown, Bothwell
And 1871, from a while ago from Maggie:
John Brown age 60, born Bothwell Lanarkshire, Miner
Agnes Brown, 20, daughter
Margaret Brown, 10, daughter
Henry Brown 9, son
Thomas Brown 6, son
Catherine Brown 4, daughter
Address: E & G Turnpike Road, Bothwell.
Monica
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ok will go and look on SP for 1860 birth and get back
Many thanks Monica - and to all who posted.
Drew
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Just looked at 1860 birth om SP. Place of birth is Legbrannock. informant John Brown.
A
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Also looked at deaths to see if I could find amy trace of Jane Brown's mother the woman called Devine or Ferguson.
Found a death in Holytown 1869 for a 70 year old woman FERGUSON MARY LAMBIE LITTLE F 70
entry says she was a widow of a William Ferguson and was also married to a William Little
This must be a connection too?
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That death you have found in 1869 looks to fit so well for Jane's mum! Remember on the 1861 you have that a Mary Little, aged 55, showed as a visitor from Co Tyrone where Jane also shows in 1861 as having been born.
What occupation was given for first husband William Ferguson if any? Who reported her death and at what address did she die?
See...more questions ::)
Monica
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Found this old post here on Mary Lambie. You might want to send them a message and find out how they connect to Mary perhaps?
I would be very grateful if you could check if there is a burial record for Mary Lambie/Ferguson/Little who died 7 January 1869.
Many thanks.
Monica
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Hi
She is described as pauper
Informant - Benjamin Ferguson son
Death at Legbrannock
William Ferguson was a labourer at colliery
I also looked at some other Brown births were Viney is listed as mother. Viney is written but the informant John Brown couldnt read or write!
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That is good that you have found somebody knew and potentially a sibling to Jane. The Vinney angle, whilst a pain as you want everything ticked off properly, is no longer a block for this being Jane's family I think. You also have the issue of the first child born to Jane not many months after her marriage in 1856 as DEVINE, have her as FORGIE....before moving on to VINEY. All a bit of a mess this issue of her use of surnames.
Even her mother's name is at issue. The 1856 marriage for Jane as Devine gave her mother as JANE Lambie. Jane's 1871 death cert gave her mother as MARY Lambie, wife of William Ferguson. Mother showed as deceased in 1871, which would make sense if she died in 1856.
What did it say re her mother in 1856? Alive or deceased?
Let's keep clear headed ;D
Monica
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I to get the feeling this is Margaret Brown's family/parents.
i ALSO CHECJED THE jOHN bROWN 1876 BUT HE IS RECORDED AS "SINGLE"
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The Bothwell 1876 death...boo! The most obvious one wasn't it from what you and Maggie discussed before. Will have a further look. You do not want to go on a general look around for a 'John Brown' at any time. The one you looked at, stating the obvious as we know mistakes happen, had different parents to the one showing for John Brown on his 1856 marriage that you have?
I know there was a struggle to find Margaret in 1881, but think you found at least one possible earlier. The younger children are easier to find in 1881. Henry and Catherine look to be with their half brother John (eldest in 1861) and his young family in Ayrshire. Thomas is boarding separately in Bothwell area. Certainly looks like John is deceased by then as stated in Margaret's marriage entry.
Monica
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For another time...you have enough going on with direct line for now ::)
But I think this is Benjamin Ferguson's marriage in Bothwell in 1860 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTYM-38X and his 1861 entry:
Benjamin Ferguson 19 Ironstone Miner b. Tyrone Ireland
Mary Ann Ferguson 20 b. Down, Ireland
Address: Legbranock, Holytown Bothwell
Tyrone certainly looks to be where the family hailed from doesn't it.
Monica
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looks like it. And there is another "mary ferguson". I think this is who Margaret's daughter born in 1883 was named after - her or the mother ms Lambie.
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Just because we like social and economic history which is what can give colour and depth to the people we research....a good short write up on Legbrannock in the 1860s www.historytoday.com/richard-cavendish/birth-keir-hardie
Really hard lives for these communities weren't they :-\
Monica
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Hi
Regarding the John Brown (father) mentioned in 1871 census. Any idea where the death is registered in Scotland?
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Interesting. I have been trying to find JOHN BROWN born 1811 in the death indexes on Scotlandspeople for some time. No joy so far.
Last known in the 1871 census in Lanarkshire. He doesn't deem to be in the 1881 census . I reckon he died in between the 71 and 81 censuses in Lanarkshire.
John was a coal miner and is wife died pre 1871. I've seen this death certificate.