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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Essex => England => Essex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: erko on Friday 22 April 11 11:38 BST (UK)
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I am trying to link the following: Golding Griggs 1721- 1806 who resided at Messing Essex His son John Golding Griggs also at Messing who died 1839 and Henry Griggs b approximately 1795.
I am trying to establish if Henry Griggs b 1795 Essex was related to Golding Griggs as he utilised the name Golding as middle name for his son William Golding Griggs and the name was carried through the family for a number of generations.
I am looking for any other children of Golding Griggs apart from John Golding Griggs ( birth date not known)
Any children of John Golding Griggs
A Golding Griggs of Messing married Elizabeth Harley 28th September 1758.
I hope that this message is not too confusing
Thank you
Jennifer
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Hello Jennifer,
I know this is a bit old, but do you know that they were from Belchamp Otten?
Golding was baptised there on 1st October 1721, son of John & Mary Griggs, and was born on 19 Sep 1721.
Then on 10th Sep 1750, John Griggs & Rose Nunn, both of Belchamp Otten, were married at Halstead, and had two children baptised at Belchamp Otten: John Golden on 12 July 1752 (born 2 July), and Cleer, born 16 Jul and baptised the 22 July 1753.
There is a marriage licence allegation for Cleer Griggs of Belchamp Otten marrying Sarah Mott of Glemsford, Suffolk in 1782. Cleer's wife was buried at Belchamp Otten in 1711.
I think it's Cleer's brother's wife, also Sarah, who was buried at Belchamp Otten in 1710.
Rose was buried at Belchamp Otten in 1768 ("the wife of Mr. Jno. Griggs junior), and Mr. John Griggs senior is buried there in 1770, aged 89 (so born about 1681 - probably Golden's dad? And possibly also John's father as well). "Mary, wife of John Griggs" is buried in Belchamp Otten in 1760 - this is presumably Golden's mother. Then John Griggs is buried in the same place in 1785. There is a will at ERO for a John Griggs of Terling, 1784 - I wonder if he is connected, as the Nunns had links with that area?
Then two more Griggs baptisms in Belchamp Otten: 8th June 1787, Sarah and 4th May 1790 Golding, children of John & Sarah Griggs.
Helen.
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From what I can find, Henry Griggs b.1795 Essex died in Hertfordshire and it appears he was Henry Golding Griggs bp.19/5/1793 Little Waltham, Essex (he states on census he was born Waltham) son of Henry Griggs and Frances Brown.
This Henry Griggs bp.31/10/1762 Little Waltham, son of Henry Griggs and Margaret Little.
Can't find marriages for Henry/Frances or Henry/Margaret.
Hate searching in Essex in this time period. Yes, parish records are on SEAX but no help if you don't know what parish events took place in.
The baptism found for Golding Griggs 1721 seems spot on but his parents appear to be John Griggs and Mary Clear married in 1708 Copford, Essex (Boyds Marriage Index). Clearly the family seems to move around a lot.
Found a marriage 19/10/1637 All Saints, Sudbury, Suffolk between a William Griggs and a Joan Golding. Perhaps events ultimately lead back to them.
Annette
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Ooooh, ta!
I think John Griggs, married to Rose Nunn, could be Golding's brother.
Just looked up the 1708 Copford marriage: Mr. John Griggs and Mrs. Mary Cleer, marrying on 25th June. No abode or marital statuses, but I suspect there's a high chance of there being a marriage licence allegation for them at ERO (there certainly is for John, who married Rose), which would give those. Had a quick look through the Copford baptisms between 1708 and 1715 but couldn't see any for Griggs. So they may not have been from Copford.
(So Cleer Griggs, baptised in 1753, could be named after his grandmother?).
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Thank you to Helvissa and Annette 7 for all the investigation of this lineo f my family. I did find a possible marriage for Henry Griggs and Frances Brown 19th February 1787 at Boreham Essex. i found this on family search so possibly needs to be checked.
Re henry Griggs and Margaret Little I cannot locate a marriage. Options appear that the surname for Margaret Little ? As there appear to be two other children Ann 25 July 1760 at Little Waltham and Margaret 19 August 1764 at Little waltham. Or these are the children of another Henry and Margaret. It seems strange that on the baptism her name is recorded ie Margaret Little ?
No baptism for this Henry Griggs ie partner of Margaret Little that is a missing link which would establish his link back to William Griggs and Joan Golding.
Again thank you for all your efforts
Jennifer
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This tidbit might be useful....
The Halstead parish register for John Griggs and Rose Nunn says:
10th September 1750. By licence, at Halstead. John GRIGGS, bachelor & Rose NUNN, singlewoman, both of Belchamp Otten
I sent off for their marriage licence allegation and the register is in fact wrong, because Rose was a widow (I tend to think the MLA is more accurate than the register...)
10 Sep 1750. John GRIGGS jnr, singleman, farmer of Belchamp Otten, aged 39 & Rose NUNN, widow of same, aged 30. To marry at Bulmer, Belchamp Otten or Halsted. Bond: John GRIGGS senr of Belchamp Otten, farmer. Witness: J. LOVEKIN
Rose Nunn is the widow of Philip Nunn, and Philip and Rose's daughter, also called Rose, married William Brewster in 1765. William and Rose Brewster had several children, one of whom was baptised Cleer Griggs Brewster (https://archive.org/stream/visitationofengl31howa#page/164/mode/2up). I wondered why they had named their child this, and what the connection was between the Brewster and Griggs families, but that would appear to be the link - Rose had named her son after her half-brother!
Something worth mentioning too - the Brewster pedigree from the Visitation (https://archive.org/stream/visitationofengl31howa#page/162/mode/2up) shows that William's sister, Martha, married Robert Andrews of Auberies, Bulmer (which is near Belchamp Otten). You will have seen the image of Robert and Martha's son, also called Robert, because he's the chap in Gainsborough's famous painting, Mr. & Mrs. Andrews:
(http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/upload/img/gainsborough-mr-mrs-andrews-NG6301-fm.jpg)
There's some info on the sitters here (http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/upload/img/gainsborough-mr-mrs-andrews-NG6301-fm.jpg) which mentions another Nunn family (Robert Andrews jnr had a cousin called William Nunn) - I'm not sure yet how he's related to Philip but I have a suspicion he may well be.
PS: ERO don't have a MLA for John Griggs and Mary Cleer, I'm afraid (they've just got back to me after I asked them to check their index for me).
It does seem that your Golding, bap in 1721, is the younger brother of John, born about 1711 (if his age on his MLA is correct).
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Sorry - re my first reply to this post, I made a hash of the dates:
There is a marriage licence allegation for Cleer Griggs of Belchamp Otten marrying Sarah Mott of Glemsford, Suffolk in 1782. Cleer's wife was buried at Belchamp Otten in 1711.
I think it's Cleer's brother's wife, also Sarah, who was buried at Belchamp Otten in 1710.
I mean, Cleer's wife was buried in 1811, and Cleer's brother's wife was buried in 1810.
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ERO have a will for Thomas Cleer of Copford, 1712.
He mentions various lands, houses and farms in Copford, Fordham and Little Tey etc, and then mentions his family:
his wife was Elizabeth, and he mentions three daughters: Elizabeth, Susan and Ann.
He then mentions "my daughter Griggs" to whom he leaves 1 shilling. No first name, no husband's name, no abode. I don't know if she'd upset him or if her husband was wealthy so he didn't leave anything else (or perhaps had settled some money on her for her marriage initially).
I think "my daughter Griggs" is probably Mary, wife of John Griggs, who married in Copford in 1708.
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Thank you Helvissa
for all this information. So much to think about. I have actually attended a discussion about that famous painting.
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I've made an error there... it's William Brewster's aunt who was Mr. Andrews' mother, not his sister. Still, that means William Brewster is the cousin of that chap in the painting!
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Ba-dum-tish! I have a Golding/Griggs connection!
I got the EDFH memorial inscriptions CD and there is a grave in Belchamp Otten's churchyard which contains five people:
- Thomas Golding, gent., died 23 Jan 1719, aged 60 years and 11 months (this gives him a dob about 1658)
- Mary, wife of John Griggs died 18 Oct 1760, aged 72 (b abt 1688)
- Sarah, wife of John Pratt, died 24 Nov 1858, aged 71 (b abt 1787)
- John Pratt (husband of Sarah), died 27 Dec 1865, aged 84 (b abt 1781)
- John Griggs Pratt, 2nd son of John & Sarah, died 29 June 1832 aged 21 (b abt 1811)
I'm not entirely sure what to make of all this. I do wish they'd put relationships on the headstone! Because is Mary the daughter of Thomas Golding? If so, she would not be the Mary Cleer who married John Griggs in Copford, and possibly appears in the 1712 will of Thomas Cleer of Copford. Unless "my daughter Griggs" in that will is a red-herring and Mary Cleer who married John Griggs in 1708 in Copford was in fact a widow? Then again - she could be Thomas Golding's niece, if, say, her mum had been a Golding. All this can be easily (perhaps!) cleared up because it looks like Thomas Golding left a will: D/AMW 12/215 at ERO (1720). I'm going to ERO in about a week, so if I have time, will have a look. If not, will order a digital copy (just cos I'm extremely nosy!). If we get a mention of "my daughter Mary Griggs" or "my niece Mary Griggs", then I think we've cracked it.
Sarah, who married John Pratt, is probably the daughter of John Griggs & Sarah (née Parmenter, married in Belchamp St. Paul in 1785 - John is the son of John & Rose Griggs), baptised at Belchamp Otten in 1787. She had a brother baptised in the same place in 1790 called Golding. So Mary would be her great-grandmother.
1851 census:
Coles Farm, Belchamp Otten
John Pratt aged 66 farmer of 200 acres b Belchamp Walter
Sarah, wife, aged 62, b Belchamp Otten
Philip, son, aged 32, b ditto
Charles, son, aged 30, b ditto
John and Sarah married in Belchamp Otten in 1805.
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It could of course be that John Griggs married twice. He married Mary Cleer in Copford in 1708, had his son John by her in abt 1711, then Mary died and he married Mary Golding. And John jnr was brought up by his stepmother, hence continued the naming convention with Golding? Erm... or something....!
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I had a look at Thomas Golding's will on microfilm at ERO last week. Info as follows:
Thomas Golding of Belchamp Otten, gentleman. 5th August 1719 (the headstone says January 1719 - must be 1719/20)
- My sister Judith Grimwood? (her surname was awkward to read - might be clearer on original) £6. To her children, £10 each.
- To the four children of my cousin Ann Ray? (again, surname reading issues) deceased £10 each when they reach 21
- To my brother Griggs' seven youngest children, £10 each
- To my cousin Frances Andrews, £10
- All my household goods at Kemson in Cavendish to my brother William Golden
- To my goddaughter, wife of of Mr. John Doking of Glemsford, 1 guinea
- £5 to each of my servants
- All my messuage, lands etc in Belchamp Otten and Cavendish, and all my rest and residue, to my nephew John Griggs
I wonder if John Griggs, who is his main legatee, is the eldest of "my brother Griggs'" children, and that he is the John Griggs who is the father of Golding Griggs, born about two years after Thomas Golding's death (hence why he names his son Golding).
This doesn't clear up very much though, because we still don't know what Thomas' relationship is to "Mary, wife of John Griggs". Would she have been buried with her uncle-in-law? (if John Griggs in Thomas' will is the John Griggs who was Mary's wife).Perhaps there was an inscription on the same grave for John, but it has since worn away?
And "my brother Griggs" - does Thomas mean his half-brother or his brother-in-law? ie. Thomas had a sister who married Griggs, and John Griggs is his nephew that way?
Note regarding Frances Andrews - this might be another connection with the Andrews family of Bulmer - the chap in the Gainsborough painting (Robert Andrews) had an aunt called Frances. Through her, Robert had a cousin called William Nunn (son of Francis Nunn and Frances Andrews, who married in 1726). And we have a Frances Andrews, cousin of Thomas Golding, in the 1719 will. Could this be the same lady?
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This is one of the wills that's just been added to Seax, so I can now go from a nice scan of the original, rather than a microfilm of the registered copy - the first mention in the will is of his "sister Judith Garrwood and her two children" - not Grimwood.
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You might want to look at the will of Maria Griggs, widow of Foxearth - she mentions (amongst many other people) "Mary, Sarah and Dorcas, the three daughters of my sister Cleere, late wife of Elias Cleere of Foxearth, yeoman." Written 1699, proved 1702 (D/AMW 11/68).
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Will of Elias Cleere of Foxearth, written 1700, proved 1703:
Three sons: John, Robert and Samuel Cleere.
Three daughters: Mary (wife of Isaac Mott), Sarah (wife of Thomas Aldridge) and Dorcas (wife of William Aldridge).
Grandchildren: Mary Abbott and Mary Mott