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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: GMelia on Thursday 21 April 11 23:51 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
Bit of a speculative post this one, but I’ve had some luck with these forums in the past so I’m putting this enquiry into the wild to see what happens.
I have a group of Roscoes who are being particularly troublesome when it comes to revealing their secrets. Here’s what I know.
1861 Census Confirms
Mother
Susannah Roscoe nee (Unknown) born abt. 1822, married (Date Unknown), (Supposedly born in Liverpool, no birth cert found, no parish record found, disappears after this census)
Children
Elizabeth Roscoe born 1852 (Supposedly in Liverpool, no birth cert found, no parish record found, disappears after this census)
Helen Roscoe born 1860 (Supposedly in Liverpool, no birth cert found, no parish record found, disappears after this census)
Robert Roscoe (jnr) (My direct ancestor and the one I know most about, more later)
Father
Robert Roscoe (snr) born (Unknown) Married (Date Unknown) Died (Unknown) not on the census, but does show on Roberts Marriage Certificate.
Robert Roscoe (jnr)
Born 1854 (Supposedly in Liverpool, no birth cert found)
Married 30th Nov 1875 (St Anne Sandon, Cork, Ireland)
Residence 1875 The Barracks, Cork
Occupation: Soldier
Residence 1881 Toxteth Park, Liverpool
Multiple children and grandchildren all the way down to me.
My Questions to the Community
Can you help fill in the unknowns in the above?
Do you have any connections to the two female children?
Possible Scenario #1, the whole family moved to Ireland after 1861 which is why I can’t find them.
Possible Scenario #2, the surname on the census is not the original, is not correct etc.
Rumour #1, at some point in the family history the surname changed from Pininski (or the appropriate correct spelling) this has been handed down the generations and may be the key to cracking the mystery of the unknowns.
Rumour #2, the roscoe line were rather wealthy at one point in time, the fortune is gone lost after the records were destroyed in the war. I’d like to be able to put this one to rest. I’m told my great grandparents once travelled to London to find out more, but were unsuccessful.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and if you can help or have any suggestions let me know.
Thanks,
Grant
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Hiya Grant....the Roscoe family ( still here in Garston /Speke /Prescot area of South Liverpool) were mostly Watchmakers from Prescot in the 19th century...can I ask where you have the family living in the 1861 census..
allan :)
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I take it you have done a phonetic search for Robert on free bmd ,to eliminate candidates,
birth dates on census returns vary for most of our ancestors,
Robert Roscoe 1855,Ormskirk,
this is only a year out,
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Hi Allan,
In 1861 the family is at 10 Court 6 Nash Grove, Liverpool. Susannah is listed as a dressmaker.
Grant
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Hi Radcliff,
Yea, done the bmd search, brings back a good few matches for Elizabeth and Robert but little for Helen. I'm trying to find a pattern before speculating with birth certificates from the gro. Cost implications are holding me back but it may be an option as a last resort.
Thanks, Grant
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Hi Grant,
does your Robert's marriage certificate give an occupation for his father Robert?
Also Susannah is born c 1822 according to 1861 (not that it helps at all) but I wondered if you had any other reason to believe she was born c 1833?
heywood
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Hi Heywood,
My mistake in the orignal post, she was born 1822, your correct, I'll need to try update that.
Robert Roscoe Senior was a ship carpenter according to the cert.
Thanks
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There is this in 1851 which is ??? ??? ???
1851 HO107; Piece: 2187; Folio: 497; Page: 19
33 Harper Street Liverpool
Robert Pavlosky 36 yrs Shipwright
Susanah Pavlosky 30 yrs
Ann Pavlosky 10 yrs
Margaret Pavlosky 8 yrs
all born Liverpool
There is another family Thomas Pavlosky in censuses who could be a brother to Robert and he is a son Robert born a similar time so it's not him in BMD.
I can't find Robert and co after 1851 and there is really nothing to link them other than the vague similarity to Pininksi. I feel a bit daft posting this at the moment ::)
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I don't feel a bit daft now :D :D
baptism:
June 8th 1862 Liverpool All Saints
Charles Pavlosky parents Robert (carpenter) and Susannah
address: No 10 Court, Nash Grove
August 5th 1855 Richard - parents Richard and Susannah ???
Ann -1841 and Ellen 1863
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Marriage:
October 14th 1837
Robert Pavloskey 21 yrs Shipwright Norfolk Street Father Charles Shipwright (dead)
Susannah 17 yrs father John Mariner (dead)
Susannah could be Lawson - transcribed as Jansonn with father transcribed as Larrison
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Marriage:
Aug 11th 1862
Margaret Pavlosky 19 yrs father Robt - ship's carpenter
Thomas Wainwright 21 yrs
living 10 Court Nash Grove
25th December 1870
Elizabeth marries John Davies
plus others :)
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1871 RG10; Piece: 3756; Folio: 15; Page: 23
50 Collingwood Street
Alex'r Ayre 51 yrs Ship's carpenter
Susan'h wife Ayre 50 yrs dressmaker
Charles Pavolsky 8 yrs stepson
all born Liverpool
Susannah transcribed as Samuel
Free BMD death Robert Pavlsskey 1864
off to bed now - hope you can spot them all and that they are the right people- more importantly
regards
heywood
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Heywood your my new favourite, this is a great lead, looks like I'm going to be busy again. Thank you for this, it's very much appreciated. ;D
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This is quite interesting:
burials :
February 3rd 1832
Richard Pavlosky 4 yrs - address Roscoe Lane
no other details
There is also a burial for Ellen in 1863
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Last thing- you'll find some baptisms etc on Family Search and also on Lancashire online Parish Clerks
On that one there is the baptism of Robert Pavlovskey - 1815 parents Bernard Carl and Ann.
Bernard is also Bernhard and Carl for other children's baptisms.
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Great work Heywood....a pat on the back.....allan ;)
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Thanks Allan ;D
I was a bit worried but thankfully the address and occupation supports it all.
I wonder if the name was taken from the street?
heywood
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In 1881, Matthew Ayre is an inmate in the workhouse -'married'. He dies in 1888.
I can't see a marriage for him and Susannah, nor a death for her.
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Charles Pavloskey doesn't get married until ,12Th of July1908,to Elizabeth Varley,a widow,
his age 46,father Robert a Shipwright ,address Frederick Street ,Liverpool,
In the parish church Liverpool,
witnessed by Elizabeth Murry and William Richard Proctor,
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My Roscoe's - not your line have been transcribed as Roscow on occasion. May be worth a look.
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it is a tantalizing read this thread
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I take it you have done a phonetic search for Robert on free bmd ,to eliminate candidates,
birth dates on census returns vary for most of our ancestors,
Robert Roscoe 1855,Ormskirk,
this is only a year out,
I think he is the Robert Roscoe who was buried age 9m in 1856, St Mary, Tarleton - his parents had another child baptised called Robert Roscoe in March 1857 (both would be registered Ormskirk) - and he married someone on my family tree named Margaret Mayor - in 1884, in Tarleton so that Robert is probably not the same chap.
Lots of Roscoes, Roscaws, Roscos and Roscows on LAN-OPC so they are some possible mis-spellings. And another possible mis-spelling is that Helen and Ellen are pretty much interchangeable in the north!
I've one a bit like this and it looks to me as though the father died, the mum re-married and her children took their step-father's name. I'd look into this possibility too if you can. And I find they weren't always accurate about whether a father was 'deceased' or not on marriage certs.
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my mothers side are Roscoe's by surname
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Grant
We have a Robert Roscoe 1875 married to a Susannah Roscoe. She was my great grandmother. I believe her parents was married in cork.
William Roscoe is my great great great great grandfather.
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Susannah Roscoe had 11 children & was in fact a dressmaker born Toxteth park, married Micheal Hart 1909. Parents Robert Roscoe (father Robert or son of William Roscoe) & Ann Dinneen married Cork 1875
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Welcome to Rootschat, SuzeW.
GMelia, (Grant), has not been online since 2016. If the same email address is still used, he will receive notification of your posts.
There is a published tree which includes your family so it looks as though your family is the one researched in this thread.