RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: julie08 on Thursday 21 April 11 22:53 BST (UK)
-
Hi, Wonder if anyone could help me with this...
I'm looking for a Whittaker family but don't know where in Lancashire they would be.
Elizabeth Whittaker, my ggg grandmother, would have been about 22 in 1851.
According to her marriage certificate her father Daniel Whittaker was a gardener.
She was born in Lancashire and married in Liverpool itself in 1854.
I've also found the wedding of a policeman, Thomas Whittaker, in Liverpool in 1855 (aged 25) whose father is also a Daniel Whittaker, gardener, so it looks likely that Thomas and Elizabeth were brother and sister.
So what I'm looking for is a census record from 1851 or earlier for Daniel Whittaker with a daughter Elizabeth and/or a son Thomas anywhere in Lancashire or the edge of Cheshire really.
Would be grateful for any help on this,
Thanks,
Julie
-
Hi,
1841 Census HO107 Piece 95 Folio 7 Page 8
Thelwall, Grappenhall, Runcorn, Cheshire
Daniel Whittaker 35 Ag Lab born in County
Ann 40 born in County
Thomas 12 }
Maria 13 } All born in County
Elizabeth 11 }
Sarah 8 }
Whilst the occupation isn't exact, there are a brother & sister of Elizabeth & Thomas and the ages do roughly match.
Cancan :)
-
Can I confirm that Elizabeth married in St Peter to Edward Allanson so that I know I have the right Elizabeth Whittaker ....what age is she on her marriage cert ?
allan
sorry I probably have that wrong as Edward is in 1881 census in Liverpool but wife is Christina
-
Hello garstonite,
That's the one I looked at last evening and she was born Warrington according to census which would perhaps fit with Cancan's find.
heywood
-
Yes, thanks - that's the right Elizabeth. She married Edward Allanson in 1854 aged around 25 in Liverpool, although marriage certificate says just full age.
Their son William's name was later spelt Allinson - He was a boilermaker too by the time he married in 1879.
I have the Allansons in Birkenhead in 1861.
I'm just interested to see if I can find them in 1851 or earlier. I found Thomas Whittaker's marriage very recently on the Lancashire Parish clerk site and thought it might make it easier to find the family with an extra sibling's name.
-
Sorry - should have said special thanks to Cancan!
I don't think the jump from ag lab to gardener would have be be too dramatic, especially as Daniel got older. Or the move from Warrington to Runcorn.
It does indeed look like them!
-
Also, depending on how accurate the ages are for 1841, I may have found Daniel's baptism in 1810 in Haslingden, and his marriage to Anne Wilkinson there in 1830.
If it is the same Daniel in 1810, his parents are named as Richard and Mairae. May not be the same people obviously and I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, but it would be great to have ancestors from Rings Nooks and Badger Coat!
-
Also, depending on how accurate the ages are for 1841, I may have found Daniel's baptism in 1810 in Haslingden, and his marriage to Anne Wilkinson there in 1830.
If it is the same Daniel in 1810, his parents are named as Richard and Mairae. May not be the same people obviously and I wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, but it would be great to have ancestors from Rings Nooks and Badger Coat!
It looks a possible /even probable , but the 1841 census returns were anything up to 5 years tolerance on ages ...
Daniel and Ann married 15th jume 1830....11 years later their son Daniel is 12 ???...it really is a problem trying to sort out people by the 1841 census...do you have them on the 1851 census by any chance...the ages should be more reallistic on there...and it also throws out your Birth year for Elizabeth.....she should , according to that marriage have been born after Maria and Thomas - her older siblings,,,,meaning she was born arounad 1833/4
allan
-
Yes - I spotted that - wondered whether, as Anne was a good few years older than Daniel, whether she'd been married previously or whether the children were born out of marriage?
I don't suppose I'll be able to find out at this distance :-\
Also Rossendale is quite a way from Warrington and Runorn...
No - no census records I could find for 1851. I may have to re-subscribe to ancestry armed with Thomas's name.
-
Hi Julie,
I don't think the Daniel Whittaker in Haslingden is yours? As their is a family on other censuses for this family (spelling varies from Whitaker/Whittaker). :-\
I haven't found a death of Daniel between 1841-1851 as I'd hoped, thinking maybe that is why he hasn't appeared on the 1851 census. There are quite a few deaths for Ann Whittaker!! But it would be which one ???
I have tried to do a search for Thomas Whittaker, who married Hannah
And if it is the right one, he seems to have married a lady a bit older than him too!!!
1861
RG9 2722 Folio 32 Page 9
Everton, West Derby
130 Bootle Lane
Thomas Whittaker M Head 31 Officer At County Court Born Cheshire Tabbley Nr Knutsford
Hannah Whittaker M Wife 43 born Chester, Cheshire
A possible for 1851 Census :-\
Gives a Thomas Whittaker living with his Uncle, who happens to be a gardener?
Aldford, Cheshire
HO107 2171 Folio 148 Page 18
Thos Whittaker Head M 54 Gardener born Cheshire Tabley
Elizabeth Whittaker Wife M 61 born Hulton(?) Cheshire
Thos Whittaker Nephew U 21 Labr born Hulton Cheshire
Whilst the place of birth for the Uncle is the same as the place of birth Thomas (nephew) on the 1861 Census? :-\
If he was a Police Officer maybe there is some record of him joining, maybe it might give some more details as to family?
Good Luck!!
Cancan :)
-
Looks like I can forget about Badger Nook then!
That's really interesting. Thank you ;D
It certainly looks as though the Thomas you've found in 1851 is the policeman Thomas from 1861. I'm going to order his marriage certificate next week in case any of the family were witnesses.
It should give some clue as to whether Daniel was still alive too.
And I'll try to chase up the police records too.
Thanks for the info!
-
Hello again
Looks like Daniel remarried :
20 Jan 1845 St James Toxteth Park
Daniel Whittaker full age widower Gardener
Ann Robinson full age Spinster Cook
His father Daniel Whittaker, Gardener
her father deceased
Witnesses William Staveley and Nancy Snelson (?)
heywood
-
Possibility for Daniel snr (Daniel's dad) perhaps?
1851 HO107; Piece: 2163; Folio: 237; Page: 6
Tabley Superior
Daniel Whittaker widower 83 yrs Lodge Keeper b Brereton Cheshire
Mary Lawrence unmarried granddaughter 24 yrs b Over Tabley
In 1841 this Daniel is an Ag Lab in Rostherne
Not sure of this but worth thinking about. It becomes a bit confusing with Cheshire born Daniels. :-\
-
It certainly looks as though the Thomas you've found in 1851 is the policeman Thomas from 1861. I'm going to order his marriage certificate next week in case any of the family were witnesses.
It should give some clue as to whether Daniel was still alive too.
The OPC gives all the details that you will find on the marriage certificate and the full image of the certificate is also available on A*cestry:
Marriage: 19 Jun 1855 St George, Everton, Lancashire, England
Thomas Whittaker - 25 Policeman Bachelor of Everton Village
Hannah Coleclough - 37 Spinster of Everton Village
Groom's Father: Danial Whittaker, Gardener
Bride's Father: Thomas Coleclough, Gentleman
Witness: William Wynne; James Booth
Married by Banns by: Robt. C. King
Mo
-
Thomas' marriage witnesses were William Wynne and James Booth so that doesn't help much.
-
Thanks Mo and thanks Heywood
This is really interesting - it would make sense wouldn't it if Daniel snr was a gardener, for Daniel and his brother to be gardeners too?
Remarriages have been very useful in my family before - with some of the Irish ones who remarried in Birkenhead particularly. Sometimes its the only information I've been able to find about parents etc.
Lots to think about! Thanks :)
Shame about the witnesses though...
-
Just a quick follow up for Thomas Whittaker's wife Hannah. There's an IGI file for a Hannah Coleclough born in Hanley, Staffs in 1818, father Thomas and mother Esther.
Looking on a map, Aldford where Thomas Whittaker was staying with his uncle the gardener in 1851, is very close to Hanley. Wonder if that's where they met?
-
In 1861, Hannah gives Chester as her birthplace.
There is this one but the age is slightly out:
1851 HO107; Piece: 2172; Folio: 37; Page: 7
Northgate Street Chester
Hannah Coleclough 36 yrs Washerwoman b Chester
Arthur Coleclough nephew 6 yrs b Chester
In 1861, Arthur is back with parents.
-
Mmm... not sure that is the right Hannah. She should have been a Hannah Whittaker by 1861.
Hanah looked to be a very popular name for Colecloughs, but the one from Hanley was the only one I could find within ten years whose father was Thomas. I'd better check again. :-\
-
She is- I am just saying that Hannah Whittaker gives her place of birth as Chester so this is the one I could see. :)
-
:) Yeah - I realised what you'd meant the second I re-read your post! Sorry...
-
However, her brother is Thomas but I think their father was Onesiphorus.
So ... difficult. :)
-
Onesiphorus - 'Bringing profit' - That is an amazing name.
I had Hannah's father as Thomas from the mariage details...(http://C:\Users\Julie\Family History downloads\General stuff\Whittaker) I'm trying to attach an image but i don't know if it will work - so what I had was
Groom's father Danial Whittaker - Gardener
Bride's father Thomas Coleclough - Gentleman
Hopefully screenshot will come up... Ah well that didn't work...
-
Hi Julie,
I have seen that already yes. It is difficult because we can only see her in 1861 with Thomas so going off that place of birth seems to turn up this Hannah.
If she was illegitimate, you could see that she invented Thomas the gentleman, but she has a father who in 1855 is alive (think he dies 1856) so why would she stray from the truth. :-\
He dies in 1846 so ... perhaps she just gave her brother's name - would need further info though.
It's a bit of a mystery all round.
-
I wonder if she was estranged from her family on account of the marriage? Not that anyone should have been able to track her down from a census return...
Much to puzzle over... did you see that Onisphorus had two daughters called Hannah - presumably the Hannah born in 1813 died and the child born in 1820 was given the same name.
Do you have access to the 1871 census by any chance? Just wondered if Thomas and Hannah appeared there. Sorry - I really do have to resubscribe to ancestry :-[
I'm heading off to my gardening chores now btw. Happy Easter ;D
-
I can only see Thomas and Hannah in 1861. :-\
There are deaths for both names in West Derby in 1860s on Free BMD but before ages are given so there is no way of checking them.
They are not on Lancashire BMD or parish clerks either :-\
-
I think maybe Thomas's police record is the way to go if I can get hold of it. That should show whether he died while working for them or retired.
Thanks for all the help!