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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: TLB on Thursday 21 April 11 10:59 BST (UK)
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I know from the 1911 census my father's family lived at no 45 and whilst Albert St is not showing in the 1901 census ( I know the record is in existence, but not on line) I do know they lived there but I am trying to discover who was the Landlord at this time. Does anyone know where I can find this info?.
I looked at Griffiths Valuation but as far as I can tell Albert st did not exist at this time.
Any help appreciated
Tony
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'45' will be the house number on the census form but may not be the actual street number.
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Thanks Aghadowey, I have come across this problem before ( on another side of my family in New Ross) but as far as I am aware this is the street number.
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This may not be of help but the Ordnance Survey Historical 6 inch Map of Clonmel (between 1837 and 1842) shows Albert St so you may find it in Griffiths.
To get the landlord's name I think the only way is to get to look at the actual census forms for Albert St -means a call to the National Archives in Bishop St Dublin.
Just went back to check the Census 1911 and found entries in Albert St.
See
http://tinyurl.com/3tmzaxo
If that doesn't work get back
Annclare
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Not sure if that is going to help as I looked at a house and building return form for Albert St and the last column is blank so will not give landlord's name
annclare
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Thanks Annclare, I noticed that on all the houses in Albert St. As far as I know family did not own the house nor indeed any others of the family/relations , who also lived in the same street. I believe the houses were built by Lord Bagwell, to house the estate workers from Marlfield but this is only hearsay.
Strange but I still cannot find Albert St in Griffiths, perhaps I am missing something, I'll have another look.
tony
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Sorry missed the point in my earlier message. No it doesn't seem that Albert St is named in Griffiths. Had alook at Sean O Donnell's History of Clonmel 1840-1900 and there is no mention of Albert St. He gives a list of all the streets in Clonmel in Griffiths.
Only other thing I can think of is tat the Bagwell estate records are held at Tipperary County Library.
See link
http://tinyurl.com/3utq6eu
They are very helpful in the local studies section so you could try e-mail
Regards
annclare
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It's difficult to read, but on the 1st edition maps Albert Street looks like it is referred to as 'Rorheens' or maybe 'Borheens' - see : Clonmel West (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,619787,622400,7,7) (select the 6" map to see the correct c1830s map)
Borheens is listed on Griffith's as part of the townland of Burgagery Lands West, Parish of St. Mary's
I'm not sure this will work ....but here's a link to the Griffith's page image - link (http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/z/zoomifyDynamicViewer.php?file=297130&path=./pix/297/&showpage=1&mysession=2218394181574&width=900&height=680&debug=)
Shane
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Shane
I looked at the 6" map and it looks very like Bohreens and going to Griffiths the immediate lessor of no 45 Bohreens was John Bagwell Esq. and he leased about six other houses there as well as some at the back of Irishtown in a place called Court.
Look like it is the right track.
annclare
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Annclare & Shane, many thanks for your input, its a great help. it looks as if many family rumours are now beginning to be proved as fact.
I had forgotten that a few years ago I found a document that, stated that the Bagwell family had purchased from Lord ? some land, houses etc in Irishtown and other nearby places . I actually discounted it as Albert St was not mentioned, I now know why!, I'll have to find it again.
Annclare, a lot of the estate documents where destroyed in a fire, at Marlfield House, during the Civil War, in particular the records of estate workers.
As far as I can tell my G/F did work on the estate, and we believe lived in the Marlfield area before moving to Albert St. He is shown on the 1911 census as a labourer but on my fathers M/C he is shown as a 'bacon curer', The Bagwells had a bacon factory in Irishtown. The family eventually moved to Garymore ( when it was built) and I remember as a child, my father taking me to Marfield to visit relatives , ( but I cannot remember who) also to watch hurling matches as dad played for St Mary's.
There is also another connection to the Bagwells , in that Lady Bagwell ran a seamstress factory, my G/M and her sisters were seamstress and my father was at tailor and we believe did his apprenticeship there.
Still have a lot more to discover but many thanks for your help.
Tony
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It's difficult to read, but on the 1st edition maps Albert Street looks like it is referred to as 'Rorheens' or maybe 'Borheens' - see : Clonmel West (http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,619787,622400,7,7) (select the 6" map to see the correct c1830s map)
Borheens is listed on Griffith's as part of the townland of Burgagery Lands West, Parish of St. Mary's
I'm not sure this will work ....but here's a link to the Griffith's page image - link (http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/z/zoomifyDynamicViewer.php?file=297130&path=./pix/297/&showpage=1&mysession=2218394181574&width=900&height=680&debug=)
Shane
I recently saw a map of Clonmel where Albert Street was marked Cahir Street.
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I recently saw a map of Clonmel where Albert Street was marked Cahir Street.
Still called Albert Street in June 2024.
https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/home/1533302/busy-road-in-tipperary-will-be-closed-for-two-months.html
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4643939#map=17/52.352787/-7.711587
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Cahir Road is the extension of Irishtown Road and Abbey Road.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4643939#map=16/52.35202/-7.71605
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Cahir Road is the extension of Irishtown Road and Abbey Road.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4643939#map=16/52.35202/-7.71605
Cahir Street not Cahir Road. Zoom in on the link below.
https://digital.ucd.ie/view/ucdlib:41553