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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Bedfordshire => England => Bedfordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: vivijune on Monday 18 April 11 22:02 BST (UK)
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There's a man called "Frans Bitchenor" on the passenger roster for the 'City of Rome' which sailed for New York May 1st, 1885, age is said to be 22 years. Frans is obviously incorrect so I've spent the last couple of days trying to narrow down who it could possibly be. There's a definite connection with Thomas Bitchenor (1855), son of Richard, and his wife Holtimira Bitchenor (1852) both born in Cranfield, who sailed in November of 1880 on the "Algeria" along with her widowed mother Susan Hailey and siblings Christopher and Winefred. She is incorrectly listed as male in the ship's records with the name Haltemar.
I'm wondering if you could search for the most likely person, John Bitchenor (Thomas' nephew) born 1864, in Cranfield Bedfordshire who lived on the same street as Haileys in the villlage. I can't find John on the census after 1871 when he was living with his widowed father Alfred and 2 sisters in Cranfield. In 1881 I found only sister Elizabeth (14) living with her grandfather, Richard. Perhaps Alfred died and John was in lodging.
I'm not finding death or marriage records for John. I'm curious where he might have been for the 1881 census 4 years before emigrating. Phonetic spelling may help because the problem with Bitchenor is that various Cranfield members of the same extended family spelt it inconsistently in the 19th Century so it might be bichener, bitchenor, bitchener or Bichner and Bitchann.
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Does the entry give any details of where he is from?
If you use the LDS website to search the 1881 census - it automatically uses "sounds like" searches
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp
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Thanks for the LDS suggestion about phonetics. I'm still new at doing this. John Bitchenor (Bichener) was born in Cranfield Bedfordshire. I lose track of him after the 1871 census when he's aged 6 living in Cranfield with his widowed father, Alfred.
Based on a process of illimination. John seems to be the only Cranfield Bitchenor with a birthday in the correct place to fit the 22 year old on the ship that sailed in 1885. It's within a year of what's on the ship's record. His Uncle Thomas had left Cranfield 5 years earlier so it seems less likely that it's one of the children of the Biddenham or Kempston Bitchenors even though 2 generations back they were all one family.
I looked for a marriage or death record in the UK for John but didn't come across one. I just want to make doubly sure I've settled on the right person.
Thanks again for helping.
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Does the shipping entry give any details of where he originates from?
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The shipping entry says only England.
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Frans is obviously incorrect .........There's a definite connection with Thomas Bitchenor (1855), son of Richard, and his wife Holtimira Bitchenor (1852) both born in Cranfield, who sailed in November of 1880.........
Why is Frans "obviously incorrect"? How have you established the "definite connection" between Frans and Thomas Bitchenor?
Have you found Frans and Thomas in US censuses? If they were living together in the US, or even in the same town, then I would agree there would appear to be a connection. If not it's just supposition
Where was Elizabeth age 14 living in 1881? I can't find her. The only Richard I can see was age 75 in Ampthill Union Workhouse. It's odd that the whole family seems to disappear off the radar screen after 1871. Did they all emigrate?
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Whilst the 1871 census says the children were born in Cranfield, Alfred and Mary Ann Bitchener baptised two children, John and Elizabeth, in Stagsden Beds, which I believe is where Mary Ann was from. An online tree on Ancestry shows that John married in 1887 in New Zealand, where he was later an MP and cabinet minister (see Wikipedia entry)
Another online tree shows Alfred as being buried in New Zealand in 1918. Possibly the whole family emigrated. Whether direct or via the US remains to be found.
See http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc03Cycl-t1-body1-d7-d21-d3.html for a photo of Alfred and a biography. He emigrated in 1875 but it's not clear that his children accompanied him. His death announcement is at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ashleigh/1870-1908/1918.January.Christchurch.PRESS.Snippets.html
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Thank you so much for the New Zealand explanation for Albert and son John and the photo from Christchurch. So now I have to look elsewhere for the man named "Frans". The first step I took was to look for Frans or Francis Bitchenor in the UK census and no one came up at all, births and deaths also. That's why I concluded that the first name was wrong on the ship's record of passengers.
I'm afraid my skill level at doing this is starting to show so I'm getting some side by side help today from someone who is very familiar with looking into American records: arrivals and census etc. I'll be looking for Thomas and Holtimira and their family that sailed in 1880, "Frans" of 1885, (there must be an arrival name for him to enter the U.S.) Also Amos Bitchenor (Thomas' nephew and Henry's youngest son) who sailed for New York on the "Baltic" in 1908. I'll let you know what I find and I appreciate your help.
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In 1910 living in Walworth Wisconsin was
Christopher Hailey 49 married 21 years b England both parents b England Immigrated 1880 Farmer
Christina Hailey wife 43 b Denmark both parents b Denmark 4 children, all living
Andrew Hailey son 19 b Wisconsin
Jessie Hailey dau 19 b Wisconsin
Alta Hailey dau 10 b Wisconsin (might she be named after Holtamira?)
Looks a good candidate for one of the 1880 party
David
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I'm so glad my family told me stories except the details are blurred but you've found them! I remember being told that those who left wrote letters home about how they suffered so much in the cold. Wisconsin did get mentioned but I thought my parents were talking about neighbors in Bournend who left Cranfield instead of actual family, so this really gives me a real place to start when I meet up and get help today.
It's poor site etiquette to write in caps so I'll just say, "Thank You."
PS. I just found Amos Bitchenor in the Ellis Island records for May 1908 fresh from his sea voyage on the "Baltic."
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And here's another spelling variation for your collection - BISHNER
1900 census Walworth Wisconsin
Thomas Bishner head marr age 47 b Jun 1852 Married 23 years Immigrated 1880, 20 years in USA. b England, parents b England. Farmer
Alta Bishner wife age 48 b Jan 1852, 0 children, immigrated 1880 b England, parents b England
on the next page, which may be a complete red herring, but I don't believe in coincidences
Frederick Hailey head 43 b Sept 1856 Married 19 yrs Immigrated 1874. b England, parents b England. Farmer
Emma E Hailey wife 44 b Oct 1855 b Wisconsin father b England Mother b New York. 0 children
George Praemar?? father in law 76 b Aug 1823 married 20 years b New York both parents b NY
Catherine Praemar?? mother in law 75 b Aug 1824 b NY both parents b NY. 5 children 3 living
John Hailey nephew 25 b Nov 1875 Single. b England both parents b England. Immigrated 1875 In US 25 years
A Frederick Elijah Hailey was baptised in Cranfield on 26 Oct 1856, son of James and Susanna. He looks to have been the first to emigrate with other Haileys following over the next 5 years
It seems as though this Bitchener line fizzled out in Wisconsin
David
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Wow. I've got branches confirmed I didn't know about including the southern hemesphere and all in one morning!Certainly seems like this American Bishner (new spelling variant) fizzled but I can't believe the progress you've made. It's been such a help. Just leaving to go and have my lesson on ancestry research so it all hinges on Amos and the Mystery Man whoever he is to carry on that Bitchenor thread in the US. By the way did you google the town where they lived? Fred certainly chose the right spot- Lake Geneva on the Illinois/Wisconsin border is beautiful- rolling hills, that big lake and land to farm.
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Bedfordshire Boy, I hope you're sitting down. I promise you can dine out on this one!
Just a reminder, how you helped me a couple of weeks ago, track down my great great grandmother Harriet (Flute), born 1828, she later married a Fensome and I was delighted to have Astwood Fensomes in my tree as her second family. So I set aside the Flute/Fensomes because I'd finished with my mother's side of the family and I started on my dad's, the Bitchenors.
But guess where I found Amos Bitchenor once he got to the U.S.? Yes, living in Walworth, Wisconsin near the Haileys and his brother Thomas. In the 1920 census he was Bishner, not Bitchenor and Biskner by 1930, married with a child. But guess who he was living with in 1920? He was staying in Walworth County with his sister Martha Emily who had married before she left England and emigrated, and her husband was......Walter Fensome. Walter Fensome was my great grandmother Harriet's grandson.
What I've learned with my family is that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree wherever the tree happens to be....and if you don't like where the tree is standing you just move it. Imagine my surprize when I pulled up the name Fensome in that same Wisconsin house.
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They certainly believed in staying close together!
Still haven't found who Frans was though! Of couse he may have been from another county.
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Yes David, they really must have liked each other. Yesterday's research was so funny. Here I am in California with a friend who's really proficient with the US ancestry.com. I'm writing down what she finds, she's the only one who can see the computer screen so she shouts out that she found Amos, I ask for head of household and tells me Walter Fensome. I just about fell off my chair. Definitely one for the memory bank.
The elusive Frans Bitchenor isn't in any American census any more than he shows up on the English ones. I figure I've got 2 ways to go. First, do you know if there's any way to sort by birth date? Like 1862-1864. If that isn't possible I may have to put him to one side until I have time to go though the male offspring of Richard's brothers. One stayed in Kempton and the other stayed in Biddenham.
Or I may have to assume as you say, he's incorrectly listed as English. Since there's a strong independent streak in my family we may descend back to a Bitchenor who was in Cromwells Army which was headquartered in Bedford for 2 years. Kempston is so close. Cromwell had a huge problem with the Levelers within the ranks and solved it by sending them all to serve in Ireland. I already found a Bitchenor in Cork.
Thanks again for your help..
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"Frans" Bitchenor sailed from Liverpool not Ireland according to the ship's manifest for the "City of Rome." to NY in May 1885.
Sorted by the recorded birth year (22yrs-1863) as well as 1862 and 64 there were no male matches that work out in any of those years for Bedfordshire variations on the last name who might have been recorded as Frans in error.
Found close variations on Bitchenor in the region of County Cork, Ireland including a Francis Bitchener married Anne Peterson in 1834 in the Diocese of Cork . Posted a new request on webchat. regarding Leveler Cromwellian soldiers who were sent to Ireland in the 1640's and stayed there. The name may originate in Ireland from one of those soldiers.
Sorts for under Frank in the UK and US were unsuccessful so the Mystery Man remains a mystery. Many thanks for all the help. Found out lots of valuable intriguing information in the process if I hadn't searched for "Frans."
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I have been researching the Bitchenor family since 2003 but only joined RootsChat today. Just wondering if we share the same grandparents - William Bitchenor and Lillian Bradley?
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I think we do. Lovely to be back in touch with you, if it's you!
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Hi there!
Seems I have to post 3 messages before I can send a personal message.
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I noticed that the Bradley side had quite a lot of research done under the family thread of Nadler in Sedgeley.
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With regards to the New Zealand line of the Bitchener family, I am a great grandson of John Bitchener and can provide quite a lot of information if you're interested.
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Hi,
John Bitchenor's father - Alfred Bitchenor (1847) was the brother of my great grandfather Henry Bitchenor. I received a lot of help in 2007 from the Information Officer in Waimate re John Bitchenor's political career but would be very interested in any information you have on the Bitchenor family in New Zealand. Thank you.
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Thank you so much for being in contact and for offering more detailed New Zealand related information than we currently have. As you can tell from this thread I am also the great grandchild of Albert's brother Henry and I'm in regular contact with the previous poster. We would both welcome information but it's probably easiest if we exchange with you via personal message. Post a couple more times and your Rootschat personal mail will be available.
Also I have a photograph of Henry Bitchenor in old age which you might like to see and I'm curious about any family resemblance to Albert.
Happy New Year.
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May have been in error sending a message to Hughes for more Albert Bitchenor information who settled south of Christchurch NZ. So here is another post. Thanks so much for responding.
Always admired a man (Albert) who went half way round the world for a better life, a widower with three small children. Any info would be appreciated.