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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: ian-nz on Sunday 17 April 11 03:21 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to find the arrival of Charles Nelson in Australia. His wife Agnes aged 23 and son Charles aged 2 years arrived on the ship Jumna on the 6th Feb 1888. They had a daughter Eleanor born on 4th March 1889 a son John Frederick in 1891 and a daughter Edith in 1892. Charles died in 1893 aged 37 years so he was born around 1856. I have found lots of information on Agnes after Charles's death but nothing about her before her arrival in Aust.
What I would like to find out is when did Charles arrive in Aust.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Pauline
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Hi there,
Do you have the d.c. for your Charles Nelson? If he died in NSW it should state how long he had been in the colonies. Of course that info is only as reliable as the informant's own knowledge, but as you have Charles aged 37 when he died in 1893, it may be worth checking that d.c. Transcripts are a cheaper and quicker option to the actual d.c.
Does the m.c. for Agnes and Charles give you his place of birth, or his parents names ... the names of his parents can be important when looking for NSW based families, particularly in the later decades of 19thC. Where was his son Charles born ... would that b.c. give you any info about Charles birth place or then current location?
There is a registration INDEXED online for a death in 1893 of a Charles NELSON, registered in the Parramatta District ... ref 12070/1893. The informant may not have known the given names for that chap's parents.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent
Cheers, JM
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Charles died in 1893 aged 37 years so he was born around 1856
Pauline
https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/BirIndexQry.m
Death in Qld
1893/C4593
NELSON Charles
Father John Nelson Mother Helena - ** born Finland aged 37 years
Have you considered that he may have been ship's crew?
Have you any certificates at all? Charles' death certificate should show their place of marriage and his time in Aus.
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks to Cando I have now checked Qld ... I didn't notice that in the heading oops !
I can see online index registration in Qld for 4 March 1889 for Eleanor Sarah NELSON, dau of Charles and Agnes (Needham)... so both Agnes and Charles would have needed to be in Qld together by mid 1888 .... how sure are you that the shipping records show a son Charles aged 2 with Agnes arriving Feb 1888 ... I am wondering if the list shows this lad as her son... perhaps it is her husband aged in his twenties ... Eleanor's b.c. should show if she had older siblings. And Charles 1893 d.c. should show all the children of the marriage with Agnes.
tip, when using the date range, at the link that Cando has given you, once you know the year, then search limiting to one half of the year, then one quarter, then the month ... etc not hard to then find the exact date.
I note that Frederick was registered as John Frederick. I have not checked for his exact d o b ... I have not checked for Charles exact d o d ... but these options are available at the Qld BDM free to search online index as linked above by Cando at #2..
Fingers crossed this helps ..
Cheers, JM
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JM the shipping records are online at Qld Archives
http://www.archives.qld.gov.au/research/index/immigration.asp
and only Charles Jnr and Agnes are listed as arriving on the JUMNA
Cheers
Cando
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Perhaps this is their marriage in England...allowing for the spelling variation and Charles was b. Finland :)
Marriages Sep 1884
NEEDHAM Agnes Emily M Swansea 11a/1025
NEILSON Charles Swansea 11a/1025
Cheers
Cando
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Good find Cando for that possible marriage, that cert would show Charles then occupation.
I am wondering if there's a transcription error on the index for the arrival of Agnes and Charles in Feb 1888 perhaps the 2 should be followed by a further number to then read twenty something ... Reasoning : I have not found Charles arrival into Qld to allow for a birth of a son in 1885/6 and then for Charles to arrive ahead of Agnes with their son.
Cheers, JM
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Hi Cando and JM,
Thank you both for your help. No Cando I do not have any certificates for Charles and Agnes. Agnes's second marriage was to Emile de Chastel in 1895 and his first wife Ann was my ancestor. I am just trying to sort out Agnes' past. I did find the marriage of Agnes Emily M Needham to Charles Neilson in Swansea. It was the only one that seemed to fit but on all the records in Qld she is only known as just Agnes. I have wondered if Charles was a sailor and arrived in Qld before Agnes and that is why there is no record of him as you suggested Cando.
Thank you both once again.
Pauline
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Queensland Death
20 Feb 1949
Agnes CHASTEL
Father: John NEEDHAM
Mother: Sara WEBSTER
#983
Page No: 367
This is the fourth event in the last week that I haven't been able to find on the Qld registry's online indexes - can anyone else find it?
There is an Agnes NEEDHAM with these parents on the 1871 census in Scotland and in 1881 they are in Cheshire. Her father was a teacher (which is probably why they moved around a bit) and Agnes is a pupil teacher. In 1891 John and Sarah are at Swansea. Agnes was born c1864 at St Pancras, so perhaps the birth for Agnes Emily in 1863 is her.
Debra :)
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Hi Debra,
Wow you have been busy. Thank you so much for finding all that information. I will now put the Emily M back in her name. I did not think to look at the Scottish Census but that all seems to fit.
The 1884 marriage to Charles Neilson looks correct at Swansea and there is a birth in 1886 at Swansea for son Charles Edward Nelson.
The De Chastel family are very had to find on the Qld BDM as their name has been wrongly spelt so many times and very little information is given on the index as to who the parents are. It is very frustrating. I have Emile's death certificate and it is full of information.
Agnes used her parents names John and Sarah in the first two children born in Qld so that all seems to tie in also.
Thank you so much again for your help. It is very much appreciated.
Pauline
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I came across this site by chance in the hope that de Chastel would help me with my search. My grandmother was Ellen Needham (b1871) - sister of Agnes Needham (b1864). Ellen also went to Australia. Their father was a school teacher who seemed to move about quite a bit (London, Aberdeen, Lancashire and finally Swansea). There were three boys in the family (Angelo b1862, Ferdinand (aka John) b1865 and Louis b1866 and a third girl Edith b1875. Two of the boys seem to be difficult to track down - perhaps they also went to Australia? It would be great if you could share any information.
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Hi alipal,
Lovely to hear from you. I am affraid I cannot help you with any information on Agnes's sisters and brothers. You are welcome to all the information I have on Agnes though. There is no mention of any brothers or sisters on Agnes's death notice in 1949 so if they were in Australia maybe they were not in Qld but then she did live to the ripe old age of 85 and may have out lived them.
Please lets know if I can be of any help. Looking forward to hearing from you.
Pauline
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Thanks Pauline
Did you get my note about the records of Leo de Chastel and Agnes's begging letters? ( I'm not quite sure how this forum works). Yes Ellen (or Helen or Sadie - I come from a family of name-changers) moved to Sydney sometime around 1901/02 and died in 1938. My aunt was born in Mt Morgan in 1901.
alipal
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Hi all,
Charles Nelson left England in 1886 and came to Australia to prepare a home for Agnes and baby Charles not realizing that Charles would be walking by that time. I have not been able to find his entry into Australia, but my mother is his granddaughter and so she has passed this information on to me knowing I am doing family history. She believed he came over on one of the ships that carried one of the drill tops for the Mt. Morgan mine.
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Thank you Cottontop,
I have added that to my records for Charles and Agnes. Another gap filled in.
Thank you once again.
Pauline
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Just happened on this site researching data for old letters for John Frederick Nelson who died 1945 at Rosemount Repat Hospital Brisbane.
I am his grandson with the family descended from John and Helena Neilsen (John was a brewer in Finland) and on the other side back to John James Needham 1834 and Sarah Webster 1833. Charles Neilsen (Nelson) and Agnes Needham boarded at the same dwelling in Swansea. Charles Nelson was a ships engineer (a slight change of name from Neilsen) and so would have been on the crews list. Unfortunately the Nelson line in Qld Australia is slowly coming to an end but the name will continue in middle names. Let me know if I can help you further.
John
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Hi John
Thank you for getting in touch. Isn't it amazing that there is always something others know that can be added to records. I did not know Sarah's maiden name was Webster or Charles Neilsen's occupation was Ships engineer or that he died at the Rosemount Repat Hospital in Brisbane. So thank you for that. Yes the Neilsen/Nelson name was very confusing at first but they were a very interesting family to research. Thank you once again for this added information.
Best Wishes for Christmas & the New Year.
Pauline