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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: newport1 on Friday 15 April 11 03:11 BST (UK)

Title: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: newport1 on Friday 15 April 11 03:11 BST (UK)
I found out that I was on the wrong track looking for my grandmother.
Someone suggested that the marriage might be between John Rigby and Rose Hannah Hulme but I found out that the marriage I was looking for was actually in Prescot in 1894 between John Rigby and Rose Anna Burns.  I  checked out with what I found in the 1911 census information about my family and I know I have now found the right person.

I can't find her record of birth on FreeBMD so can anyone suggest what to do now. As you can tell I'm new at this!

Joyce
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: andycand on Friday 15 April 11 04:30 BST (UK)
Hi

Previous topic

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=526648.new;topicseen

Andy
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 11 07:46 BST (UK)
Hiya Joyce...lan-opc has the marriage and gives their age as well...but it WASN`T in Prescot...it was in Sutton, which came under Prescot register office at the time

10th nov 1894 at St Nicolas , Sutton,Lancashire
John Rigby aged 21 a warehouseman  Bachelor of 10 Prescott street , Sutton
Rose Anna Burns aged 24 a spinster of 16 Prescott street ,Sutton
grooms father James Rigby a warehouseman
brides father Owen Burns a labourer
witness  Frederick Rigby  Mary Ellen Ellison
married by M F Binney   Vicar
so that tells us that unless John Rigby was born 11th nov to 31st dec ...he was born in 1873 and looks like he had a brother Frederick...1881 census needed now....with father James and sons John and Frederick...
Rose Anna Burns ...father OWEN Burns...possibly Welsh ?
so Rose Anna Burns born 1869/70...again  - we need to find her with father Owen in 1881 census
allan
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 11 08:00 BST (UK)
Sutton is in St Helens ...google Sutton Colliery and you will see where it is on a map ....
in 1881 census
there is this...but...it says head is a widow...there is the chance Owen had left home and Ellen stated she was a widow ???...
Ellen Burns aged 43  Widow  Hardware dealer b St Helens  (hardware dealer - Warehouseman as Johns job ? )
Robert aged 23 son Geni Clerk   b St Helens.....they are ALL born St Helens
Mary Ellen aged 21 ass Hardware dealer
Catherine aged 18  dom serv
ROSE ANN BURNS aged 10 scholar
Daniel aged 7
James aged 5
Winifred aged 3
so ...let me check on lan-opc for any of these childrens babtisms ...and if their parents are Owen and Ellen Burns , I would say this is the family....allan
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: Manchester Rambler on Friday 15 April 11 08:13 BST (UK)
A possible in 1891 with a father Owen?

RG12/3024/43/3 - 59 Ashcroft St, Parr, St Helens, Lancs
Owen BURNS  Head  50  Gen Labourer  b. Co. Sligo, Ireland
Ellen BURNS  Wife  53  b.(?)Luaston, Kerry, Ireland
Peter BURNS  Son  27  Coal Miner  b. St Helens
Rose Anna BURNS  Dau  20  Domestic Servant  b. St Helens
William Owen BURNS  Son  17  Coal Miner  b. St Helens
Catherine BURNS  Dau  13  Scholar  b. St Helens
John J BURNS  Son  7  Scholar  b. St Helens
Robert WINSTANLEY  Visitor  7  Scholar  b. St Helens
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 11 08:19 BST (UK)
1881 census
60 Ramford street ,Parr,Lancashire (St Helens )
James Rigby head aged 39  born Sutton   Glass Polisher
Ann wife aged 39 b Sutton  Glass polisher
William 18 b Sutton   glass polisher
Thomas 16  b Sutton  glass polisher
Mary Ellen aged 13 b Sutton
Sarah Ann aged 11 b Sutton
FREDERICK aged 9 b Sutton
JOHN aged 6 b Sutton
Elizabeth aged 4 b Sutton
Esther aged 2 b Parr
James aged 1 b Parr
this looks very likely for your John Rigbys family
allan :)
just read your post Rambler...an excellent find ...allan
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 11 08:23 BST (UK)
Aha...thats why
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
1871 ROSEANNA Burns   ...St Helens   ....St Helens ....    SH/91/27  ......her christian names is registered as all one name
that`s probably why you couldn`t find her Joyce
allan ;)
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: Manchester Rambler on Friday 15 April 11 08:27 BST (UK)
After a bit of imaginative searching.....

1871
RG10/3866/60/34 - Parr (?)Stock, St Helens, Lancs
Owen O BURN  Head  33  Alkali Lab  b. Ireland   (Surname is hard to read and looks like BEIRNE, with the O so close it could be part of the surname.)
Ellen BURN  Wife  34  b. Ireland
Bryan BURN  Son  10  b. Parr
Peter BURN  Son  8  b. Parr
Mary E BURN  Dau  6  b. Parr
(?)Beza BURN  Dau  4  b. Parr
Johanna BURN  Dau  2  b. Parr
Rosanna BURN  Dau  5 months  b. Parr

Births Jun 1871
BURNS  Roseann
Prescott 8b 585
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: Manchester Rambler on Friday 15 April 11 08:37 BST (UK)
Interesting!

1861
RG9/2753/36/65 - Fleet Lane, Parr, Lancs
Ellen O'BRIEN  Head  Unmarried  22  No occupation  b. Ireland
Bryan O'BRIEN  Son  1 month  b. Parr

Marriages Dec 1860
O'BRIEN  Ellen
O'BURN  Owen
Prescot 8b 863

So a name change from O'BURN to BURNS?

And another possiblility for Rosanna's birth, which actually matches her age in 1871 better...

Births Dec 1870   
O'BURN   Roseanna        
Prescott 8b 624

Going through the children's births, they seem to be registered as a mix of O'BRIEN, O'BYRNE, and O'BURN, just to make things complicated...  ::)
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: garstonite on Friday 15 April 11 08:58 BST (UK)
Ha Ha ...can you imagine being a vicar /registrar /census adjudicator ,talking to a husband and wife ...one from Sligo and one from Kerry...I`ll bet no-one could understand a word they said....probably why the name changed willy nilly..........anyway...between us I think Joyce will be happy with the outcome....cheers...allan :)
ADDED...from the info you have posted Rambler...do you think the witness at the marriage
Mary Ellen Elison would be nee Mary Ellen Burns....Rose Annas sister...now married ?
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 15 April 11 09:10 BST (UK)
FindMyPast has the father from 1881 census transcribed as Oliver Beirns!

No wonder I had trouble finding him!!  :(
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: Manchester Rambler on Friday 15 April 11 09:33 BST (UK)
Quote
do you think the witness at the marriage
Mary Ellen Elison would be nee Mary Ellen Burns....Rose Annas sister...now married ?

I think it might be John's sister from the census you posted:

Marriages Dec 1890

ELLISON  William
RIGBY  Mary Ellen
Prescot 8b 1001

(Not on Lancs BMD unfortunately.)

Sister Johnanna marries as BYRNES, by the way, so there's another variation!   ::)
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: Manchester Rambler on Friday 15 April 11 09:51 BST (UK)
1881
RG11/3738/69/39 - Fleet Lane, Parr, Lancs
Owen O'BEIRNE  Head  42  Alkali Lab  b. Ireland
Ellen O'BEIRNE  Wife  43  b. Ireland
Patrick B O'BEIRNE  Son  20  Rolling Mills Lab  b. Parr
Peter O'BEIRNE  Son  18  Colliery Lab  b. Parr
Mary O'BEIRNE  Dau  16  None  b. Parr
Bridget O'BEIRNE  Dau  14  None  b. Parr
Johanna O'BEIRNE  Dau  13  Scholar  b. Parr
Rosanna O'BEIRNE  Dau  10  Scholar  b. Parr
Owen O'BEIRNE  Son  8  Scholar  b. Parr
Catherine O'BEIRNE  Dau  3  b. Parr

The image is a bit clearer than 1871 and really does look like O'Beirne.
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: newport1 on Friday 15 April 11 22:17 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for all your searches! It's brought up more results than I expected - brilliant!

Joyce from Oz
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: newport1 on Sunday 17 April 11 11:04 BST (UK)
When I looked in Freebmd for a James Rigby born around 1842 there were quite a few of that name born in the area where he lived later on so it's hard to know which one was my ancestor! 

Joyce
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: newport1 on Sunday 17 April 11 11:12 BST (UK)
I guess I would need to go on the Irish thread for Sligo to find more information about Owen O' Beirne who was born there around 1838.
Thank you for finding the information about where Rose Anna's father was born.

Joyce
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 17 April 11 11:15 BST (UK)
New thread on Sligo board for Owen O'Beirne-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,527215.msg3819512.html
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: newport1 on Sunday 17 April 11 22:14 BST (UK)
I did find out that James Rigby's father was Raymond Ward and his mother was Mary Dixon. They were married in 1859 and both were born in 1841 in Bolton.
I can't seem to go any further back with this one!

Joyce from Oz
Title: Re: Rose Anna Burns not Rose Hannah Hulme
Post by: newport1 on Monday 18 April 11 04:02 BST (UK)
Sorry but the information on my last post related to another branch of my family William Ward -  not James Rigby! It was meant for another thread!

Joyce