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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: treebird on Thursday 14 April 11 17:45 BST (UK)
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Dear Roots Folk,
I am trying to find the puzzle pieces to get the bigger picture of my Irish/Welsh family ancestry.
My great-grandmother, Ann Shannon (married name Ann Zeitler) was born in Ireland in 1872 on July 4th - perhaps in New Ross, Wexford. She immigrated to the USA in 1875 at the age of 3 with her mother, also an Ann Shannon (her maiden name Kane) who was born around 1848 and who was married Philip Shannon. Both Anns ended up living in Brooklyn. Ann Kane Shannon was marked down as a widow in the census. Ann Shannon married Joseph Zeitler and had several children.
I am trying to find both Ann Kane Shannon and Ann Shannon Zeitler's birth certificates, Ann Kane Shannon's marriage date/certificate to Philip Shannon, and any other revealing information.
The tricky bit: The other mystery is that Ann Shannon Zeitler's daughter Anna (I know they weren't very creative with naming back then!!!!) wrote a letter that mentioned her Welsh grand-parents. Since neither Kane nor Shannon is a Welsh name, my guess is that perhaps on of the maternal lines were Welsh.
Ann Kane Shannon's parents were named James and Mary Kane (perhaps Mary Kane's maiden name was Welsh)
I don't have any information on Philip Shannon's parents, but that Ann Kane Shannon and her baby Ann lived with them at one point in Wexford, Ireland just before they immigrated to the USA.
Perhaps Philip Shannon's mother was Welsh?
Does any one have any suggestions where I can begin with all this confusion.
I only have Ann Kane Shannon's death certificate and Ann Shannon Zeitler's Death Certificate, but it only gives me info I already know.
Any help is much appreciated.
all the best,
P Wyn
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There is a possible marriage in Cardiff in 1869 between a James Kane and Mary Mahoney
GRO Cardiff 11a 426 (Q2)
I don't know if this is the time priod you are talking about.
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To start with, civil registration of births in Ireland started in 1864 so there won't be a birth certificate for Ann Kane.
Many Irish families moved to Wales so perhaps that's what happened here. I've even come across someone who put Ireland for birthplace in all U.S. census records except 1- luckily put "Cardiff, Ireland" which gave me a clue to search for the family in Wales!
Have you seen the marriage record on LDS site for Mary Shannon, daughter of Philip Shannon and Anne Kane, married 27 Mar.1883 Manhattan, N.Y. to William O'Neill?
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There is a possible marriage in Cardiff in 1869 between a James Kane and Mary Mahoney
GRO Cardiff 11a 426 (Q2)
I don't know if this is the time priod you are talking about.
Since Ann Kane was married before 1872 is unlikely that her parents would have been married in 1869.
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Dear Aghadowey,
Wow, that is very interesting that you found a marriage record of a Mary Shannon.
It sounds like it could be their child. I know that Ann Kane and Philip Shannon had the following children:
Ann Shannon - born in Ireland, July 4, 1872
Philip Shannon Junior - born in Boston - would love to get hold of his b-certificate and marriages - he was born on March 3 1877 according to a WW I draft card, but not sure the year is correct. He died in Brooklyn in 1949
In Ann Kane Shannon's grave site, Philip her son was buried, an Irene Shannon who had died at 6 months of age in 1891 (could be her daughter or Philip her son's daughter) and a Catherine Shannon who died in 1932. So news about a Mary Shannon is intriguing. Does it say where Mary was born?
That is great that you found a census record that said Cardiff, Ireland - fascinating. Records can be confusing!
Do you have a way to look up who was Irene Shannon's parents? She was buried on June 27, 1891 in the Holy Cross Cemetery in Brooklyn at 6 months of age.
Thank you Aghadowey!
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P.S.
pardon my ignorance...what is the LDS site?
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Sorry, meant to post the link but got interrupted by a phone call. LDS site is www.familysearch.org. Mary's birthplace give as 'Ireland.' If you can find her in 1900 U.S. census (also LDS site) then it should list month and year of her birth.
LDS site not working at the moment (just keep trying) but online Massachusetts vital records index shows a Philip Michael SHANNON born 1877 Southbridge (Southbridge is southwest of Worcester so not that close to Boston).
http://www.sec.state.ma.us/arc/arcsrch/VitalRecordsSearchContents.html
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Thank you. I will look for that at familysearch.
Philip J Shannon was his name so I don't think that one is it.
thank you again!
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LDS working now and I found Philip Joseph SHANAHAN born 3 March 1875 Boston, Massachusetts- parents Philip SHANAHAN and Ann.
See here (https://www.familysearch.org/search/recordDetails/show?uri=https://api.familysearch.org/records/pal:/MM9.1.r/SMCG-P32/p1)
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Thank you. The link isn't working now, but I think I have seen that listed before and wondered if it could be him - but that would mean that the last name AND the date didn't match up the information that was given in the census and draft card. I have ordered his death certificate, perhaps it will also have on their when he was born. But I wonder, would there have been a reason to lie about his birthdate and last name...
Have you found that in your research there are mistakes on official documents with names and dates?
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Birthdate is same day and moth- just 2 years off- parents names correct- think Shannon was just written or mis-transcribed as Shanahan (perhaps trouble understanding Irish accent and if person who registered birth was illiterate...) have you found them in 1880 census yet?
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Hello treebird,
I wonder if this is the family in 1880 USA census (Family Search- can be viewed freely)
Brooklyn
Philly Shannahan 38 yrs born Ireland Carpenter
Ann Shannahan 40 yrs
John son 14yrs born Ireland Works In Glass
Phillip son 5 yrs born N.Y.
Mary daur 14yrs born Ireland Flowers (Occupation)
Bridget daur 12yrs born Ireland
Hanna daur 10 yrs b Ireland
Family Search also has baptisms for :
Bridget Shanahan ,10th October 1868, Waterford, Ireland
parents: Philip Shanahan and Anne Keane
John Shanahan 10th July 1865 Waterford
parents Philip Shanahan and Anastatia Kean
It may well be that your family are from Waterford rather than Wexford?
regards
heywood
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Dear Heywood,
Wow, that is certainly food for thought. I guess surnames were often changed around to help assimilate into American culture easier. Funny that you mention Waterford, Ann Kane/Keane's parents are named James and Mary Kane. I found them in a census as having been from Waterford, Ireland and moved to Trevethin, Wales. I know that Ann Kane had a few children before she moved to the USA - and her daughter Anna (my great-grandmother) was sometimes called Hannah - or my guess is that people heard her name wrong and wrote Hannah. But according to her death certificate she was born July 4, 1872. So if this Hanna Shanahan is her, the dates would be off as the ages don't match up.
Also, all the census's with Philip Joseph Shannon Junior say that he was born 1877 March 3 in Boston.
I really don't know where to go now. I'm thoroughly confused at what path do go down.
You certainly have to be a super sleuth!
thanks for your help - if you find any other information please let me know. Familysearch.org has been not working but I'll try it some more. You seem to be good at searching that sight, perhaps I'm not doing the best kinds of searches.
best wishes,
Pamela
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Hello again,
Names/ages and places of birth are often different on various censuses so I would not dismiss 1880 as so much also ties in. Philip's birthplace is not right either but it is worth keeping a note to compare with other information.
You often see Hannah/Anna/Ann and in this case there is also Anastatia. (That is very popular in Wexford area but as they border each other- may be Waterford too.)
heywood
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Is there anyone who has access to the images on Family Search? On their site there is a listing for Mary Shannon, daughter of Philip Shannon and Anne Kane, married 27 Mar.1883 Manhattan, N.Y. to William O'Neill but there is no image available. I wanted to find out her age and birthdate and where she was born and all the other details.
Cheers!
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You'll need to order the actual marriage certificate to see all the details.