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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Nostalgic_One on Wednesday 13 April 11 14:47 BST (UK)
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Has anyone looked for graves here? What was your experience like? Any useful advice?
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Hi
St Martin in the Fields is in the north-east corner of Trafalgar Square
Present day photograph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:St_martin_in_the_fields_exterior.jpg
London Burial Grounds gives extensive information on churchyards in London (link given in the burial guide on the London and Middlesex Rootschat boards).
http://www.londonburials.co.uk/
St Martins in the Fields (further information with pictures in the guide)
'The extensive burial ground, containing an estimated 60-70,000 burials, was emptied and replaced by Duncannon Street and buildings to the South in 1827/30. At the same time burial vaults around and under the church were greatly extended. These were cleared in 1937. Full English breakfasts are now served where coffins once mouldered.'
'The old burying ground adjoining the church has been broken up for the purpose of making improvements in the city of Westminster; the dead were disinterred, and their remains removed to vaults, called catacombs. This circumstance is commemorated by the following inscription, on the north side of St. Martin's church'
The additional burial ground in St Martin's Lane was demolished in 1871 to make way for the northern extension of the National Gallery.
The description of the state of the additional burial ground in Drury Lane makes particularly unpleasant reading and gives ample reason why churchyards in what is now central London were closed by the 1850s because of health reasons and public cemeteries replaced them. It is a paved over public garden.
There was additional burial ground for the church purchased in 1805 in Pratt Street St Pancras.
'In use until 1856, at first for St Martin's parishioners (mainly the poor) then later for other parishes.
Now a not especially exciting open space, with gravestones around the edge. To the south these have been arranged in a rather odd herring-bone pattern for no obvious reason. Over 18,000 burials recorded at the site'
Regards
Valda
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Hmmm, is there any hope of finding what I'm looking for do you think? Specifically I'd like to find details of a gentleman who was buried in there in 1832 (I suspect probably together with other family members).
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Hi
If you mean a gravestone or burial site in a churchyard extremely unlikely. Were the family wealthy? Did they leave wills? They would need to be of some wealth to be buried together considering the pressure St Martin's burial grounds were under with the sheer number of burials (on top of burials) in the relatively small size of the churchyards and catacomb space St Martin's had access to by 1832. Pre 1832 any family burials may have been in the then cleared old burial ground - the original churchyard - built over by 1832.
Westminster Archives does hold some work done on monumental inscriptions at St Martins in the Fields mainly in the church and crypt but also some from what survived at the Drury Lane and Pratt Street (known as the boneyard) burial grounds by the 1990s.
http://www.westminster.gov.uk/workspace/assets/publications/Info-Sheet-08-Monumental-Inscript-1278423843.pdf
St Martin in the Fields burial registers are held at Westminster Archives. There was a separate register for the Pratt Street burial ground. There are some Bishops Transcripts (copies made of the register and sent to the Bishop each year) available to be searched. There is no indication in the BTs where each burial took place and whether these are all the burials. In 1832 a large number of the 636 burials listed in the BTs were from the workhouse.
http://www.westminster.gov.uk/workspace/assets/publications/Info-Sheet-01-Anglican-Regs-1271422893.pdf
What was the man's name? Have you found his entry in the burial register?
Regards
Valda
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I'm looking for a Ewen Mackintosh, listed as a gentleman and landlord living in Haymarket. I have burial records from Ancestry for him, his daughter Mary Ann Clark Mackintosh who died in the same year (1832), and his wife Elizabeth Mackintosh who died in 1853. All were buried in St. Martin in the Fields, despite Elizabeth having moved away from the area quite some time previously. I'd rather optimistically hoped that there might be a family vault full of fascinating info! I'd especially like to find clues to wife Elizabeth's parentage. As you say though, it sounds extremely unlikely.
I guess the next step is to track down those monumental inscriptions. Thank you for the info on those.
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Hi
Presumably the son?
London Gazette 5th March 1844
JOHN HERMAN MERIVALE, Esq. one of Her Majesty's Commissioners authorized to act under a Fiat in Bankruptcy, bearing date the 9th day of November 1816, awarded and issued forth against Ewen Mackintosh, of the Haymarket, in the county of Middlesex, Army Accoutrement Maker, Saddler, Dealer and Chapman....
and the father 25th May 1819
The, Commissioners in a Commission of Bankrupt, hearing date the 9th day of November 1816, awarded and issued forth 'against Ewen Mackintosh, of the Haymarket, in the County of Middlesex, Accoutrement Maker, Saddler, Dealer and Chapman...
a further hearing in June 1819 to see whether he could absolve his debts.
Records at The National Archives of his bankruptcy
B 3/3393 Mackintosh E 1816
The family don't seem to have left any wills.
His partnership in the Haymarket with Richard Birnie was dissolved 19th March 1802.
His wife Elizabeth seems to have been born in Herefordshire
1851 census HO107 1581 folio ?
5 Elizabeth Place Asylum Road Camberwell
Elizabeth Mackintosh 76 Head Widow Annuitant Hereford Pl N.K.
Catharine Mackintosh 29 Daughter London Pl N. K
plus 1 servant
Regards
Valda
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Thank you so much. This is all fascinating. I did not know until today that Ewen owned Mackintosh & Co. saddle business which - supplied the royal family - passed to him by his father Alexander Mackintosh.
Where did you find details of the partnership with Richard Birnie? I would love to know more.
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Hi
London Gazette
http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/home.aspx?GeoType=London
Regards
Valda
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Thank you. This is all extremely interesting.
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For Nostalgic One
Try the will of Alexander Clark, Haymarket 1810 (born Inverness 1744). He was in the East India Company, the brother of James Clark, painter, Naples, (born Inverness 1742, died Naples 1800)who packed Sir William Hamilton's second collection of Greek antiquities in Naples in 1799 for homeward despatch in HMS Colossus, laid on by the local navy C-in-C, a certain Horatio Nelson. I think they were the sons of John Clark and Mary Mackintosh in Inverness - she was possibly one of the Dalmigavie family. James Clark certainly stayed with Alexander Mackintosh when in England (possibly also in Sherrard Street, Golden Square, before Mackintosh moved to the Haymarket), and so did Alexander - there is correspondence from James in the National Archives of Scotland which indicates this. Alexander Clark's will includes bequests to Ewen Clark MacIntosh, Mary Ann Clark McIntosh, (since both are to complete their education it may be that this Ewen Clark Mackintosh may not be the bankrupt) and to a number of other MacIntoshes and Clarks. I think it may be that Alexander Mackintosh's wife had been an Inverness Clark, and he was certainly regarded by the Inverness magistrates as worth soliciting for subscriptions to both the Inverness Royal Academy and the Northern Infirmary. Another kinsman, not mentioned in Alexander Clark's will, but who assisted him in executing his brother's, was Robert MacBean, a Tortola merchant ( Alexander makes a Tortola bequest) who bought the (Mackintosh) Culclachy Estate near Inverness, renaming it Nairnside. I've never been able to discover whether these Clarks were in fact ( as is generally thought in Inverness) descendants of the Provost Alexander Clark who was unseated for backing the Jacobites in 1715, or indeed which Inverness John Clark ( there are at least three possibles, but not much conclusive about any of them survives) their father was. I'd welcome any further information.
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Additional speculative suggestion. Might Mary Ann Clark Mackintosh have been a cholera victim? And might not Mexico City be a possible place to look for her brother? A Ewen Clark Mackintosh was, in partnership with a merchant called Manning, a very influential British presence in Mexico City during the 1830s and 1840s, having arrived there in 1826.
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Sorry to be dense, but I had only just begun to look at the Alexander Clark will when I found you had posted about the family. I think, having studied it a bit more, it probably does establish that Ewen Clark Mackintosh and his sister were the children of Ewen Mackintosh and Elizabeth Mackintosh ( there are legacies to both of them). So it might not add much to what you already know.
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For Allan:
Apologies for my slow response. It's been an exceptionally hectic week here but I am still very much actively researching and am extremely grateful for your messages. You don't sound dense at all. I am fairly new to genealogy and there's masses there that I didn't know and can't wait to explore further.
I've been researching the family of James Mackintosh (b. 1792, Westminster). I have a tree on Ancestry called 'The Mackintosh Family of Totteridge Lodge, Hertfordshire' which is fairly small at present but all fully referenced. James was the son (I'm fairly certain the oldest son) of Ewen Mackintosh and Elizabeth Bouchier. I have baptism records for twelve children of theirs in total. Three of them had the middle name Clark, which must have been after the Alexander Clark you mention. I've been wondering for a long time where Clark came from as clearly it was not their mother's name.
As you mention, son Ewen Clark Mackintosh (b. 1802, Westminster) went to Mexico where he became British Consul. His brother Henry Alexander apparently followed him there, as did one of James' sons (nephew William Lyster Hay Mackintosh) although the latter died shortly after his arrival. I haven't got very far yet with tracing the Mexico branch of Mackintoshes (any tips greatly appreciated). I do know that Ewen Clark Mackintosh had three sons whom he sent home to board at Harrow as they appear on the school's register.
It is only thanks to this thread that I know that Ewen Mackintosh's father was Alexander Mackintosh and that the family owned the saddle business Mackintosh & Co., which I now know was later passed to Ewen's son James (although I don't believe it went any further than that). I have an address for them as 10 Haymarket (today nextdoor-but-one to the Theatre Royal) but did not know that Alexander lived previously in Golden Square. So, once again, thank you!
How do I go about accessing the will of Alexander Clark and the correspondence you mention?
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For the record, the will is National Archives PROB 11/1511, and can be obtained from their shop online, though I think I may have managed to send it to you. 10 Haymarket is certainly the address I first had for Alexander Mackintosh, but the Golden Square address is from before 1791, as his subscription to the Inverness Royal Academy of ten guineas was forwarded to the Cashier by the army agent John Ogilvie, of Ross and Ogilvie, Argyll Street, in the spring of 1791 with a number of others, and an unnumbered Haymarket address is indicated then. The Academy minutes from 1788, which include a list of possible subscribers to be approached simply describe him as "Alexander Mackintosh, Saddler". That's how I first came across him, but when I found he was in the Haymarket, very close to the centre of fashionable London, it seemed likely that he was a well known saddler, so I asked the London museums about him and drew a blank, even from folk who claimed expertise. How did you find out he supplied royalty? I think I may have somewhere in Inverness (I'm not there at the moment) a note of his apprenticeship - when I can dig it up I'll let you know the details.
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Alexander Mackintosh is listed in this 1794 directory under his 10 Haymarket address:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pP1_kkYtEmsJ:www.londonancestor.com/kents/kents-m.htm+alex+mackintosh+sadler&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari&source=www.google.co.uk
His business card from 1786 is apparently included in this collection of papers relating to Thomas Jefferson:
http://ead.lib.virginia.edu/vivaead/published/uva-sc/viu00007.component
As for Mackintosh & Co. supplying the royal family, my only source is this:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4Sm90KPbHdQJ:www.electricscotland.com/history/other/birnie_richard.htm
It appears that they later supplied the army, as Alexander's grandson James is listed in the 1841 census as an 'army saddler,' then in the 1851 census as a 'retired merchant' with 'saddler' crossed out. By 1861 he was simply a 'fundholder.'
I'd be very interested to see the note of Alexander's apprenticeship. I'm guessing it took place in Inverness and that that was where he was born? I'm guessing that he too was buried at St. Martin in the Fields but Ancestry has no records of his death as yet. Do you know how to go about looking for a will for him and therefore perhaps finding out whether he had more children besides Ewen? In particular, there is much evidence of a Colyear Mackintosh also living in Westminster at around the same time and I've often wondered whether he was a brother of Ewen's.
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Also, many thanks for sending the will, although I must confess I found it very hard to read! I find it surprising that there aren't more Mackintosh children mentioned (unless they're there and I just couldn't deciper them). I have baptism records for the following children of Ewen Mackintosh and Elizabeth Bourchier, all from St. Martin in the Fields:
James (b. 1792)
John (b. 1794)
Alexander (b. 1795)
Thomas (b. 1797)
Elizabeth (b. 1798)
Hannah Clark (b. 1800)
Ewen Clark (b. 1802)
Robert (b. 1804)
Mary Ann Clark (b. 1806)
Henry Alexander (b. 1808)
George William Daun (b. 1812)
Catherine Louisa McDermott (b. 1813)
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Birnie seems to have been from Banff and born in 1760. There's apparently(I've been Googling) a local source referred to as "Imlach" which I don't know but which seems to associate him with Alexander Mackintosh whose daughter he is said to have married. Electric Scotland is looked after by the Clan Fraser Society of Canada, which has very good genealogists. He must have had a fairly long association with Mackintosh if the partnership was dissolved in 1802. I'll see whether I can dig anything up from what I have here, but I don't think I have much that would help. Prinny's order seems to be the sort of thing that would crop up in a Birnie obituary, quite possibly based on stories he would have told to his friends.
There are two accessible sources for wills. A Scot with a Scottish estate who made a testament would have the will proved posthumously at the local commissary court and the will would then be recorded in full by the court. Not many made testaments. The surviving records are accessible through the Scotlandspeople website, which is tricky to operate and works on a system of pre-purchased credits, but will track both names and places within date limitations of your choice. The will itself, when you get it, is quite expensive -£5. The Registrar General for Scotland subcontracted the management to a subsidiary of DC Thomson, the publishers of the Dandy and the Beano, and their customer service is not the best, but their contract is apparently moving towards its expiry date. What is actually in the document might vary widely. The most common result is an inventory, not so much of real property as of debts, owed and owing. Family information is far from invariably present, though if it is it will be detailed. The more prominent the testator, the more likely it is to be detailed.
Many American and West Indian Scots who made wills tended to have them processed in their place of residence at death if their estate was wholly there too, which means, for example, that many West Indian wills, if they have not deteriorated from bad storage conditions, have to be consulted on the spot. If any British property or legatees furth of Scotland were affected, they were proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury and will have progressed to the PRO, now the National Archives, at Kew. Their holdings can be searched online, and once you get used to it, the system is easier to operate than the Scots one, though there are pitfalls - the initial search is within 50 year time bands, for example, though there is an advanced search which, if you are fairly sure about dates and places, can cut down the sorting of the results, and it is not a good idea to enter both forename and surname - you get very large numbers of hits if you do, which take a great deal of going through. A surname is usually enough if you know the rough date of death and likely place. You pay nothing until you order, and the rate is £3.50 per will (but of course they have a larger clientele). A very good zoom function is a great help. The copy clerks were only human, and it's sometimes very hard to be certain about names if they were tired or overloaded.
I note the list of Ewen's children. Alexander Clark's will - 1810 - mentions a male child then unchristened, and he doesn't seem to fit with the list. Do you think others might have been christened elsewhere?
I think perhaps I should try to send you James Clark's will, which confirms the relationship between Dr Anderson and Robert Anderson the Inverness silversmith (but not much else, though it's a fascinating document if you are interested in fine art and the way the Italian-Grand Tour market in Greek/Etruscan vases worked at the end of the eighteenth century - Alexander doesn't seem interested in that sort of thing, apart from his nine volume book on Herculaneum). I'll do so when I have checked I actually have all of it. There's an incomplete draft in the National Archives of Scotland - and even this one wasn't accepted as wholly authentic by the PCC - they thought the original, in Naples, would be needed for more than a grant of administration! I don't have notes on them here, but there are some James Clark letters in the NAS which I seem dimly to recall are from 1792, when he was in England, and may mention things which might be happening in Haymarket around the time of James's birth. I'll get my notes on them to you when I can.
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Sorry - I should have said that the National Archives (Kew) website for wills and the like is "documentsonline". I'm too old to think of websites as entities in themselves.
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I just found the reference from Imlach too which says that Birnie married Mackintosh's daughter. It conflicts with other sources though which say he married 'the daughter of a rich baker from Oxendon Street.' I wonder if he perhaps married more than once? I've checked Ancestry but cannot find any marriage records for him. Maybe in time?
Yes it is certainly possible that there were other Mackintosh children not included in the list. The first ten records came from the LDS site and the final two from Ancestry, so there could be a gap of time not covered by either site. Actually, now you come to mention it, I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was another child born in 1810. How many Mackintosh children does the will refer to in total? I couldn't work it out.
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According to the LDS website, Richard Birnie married not a Mackintosh daaughter but a Louisa Birrell at St. Martin in the Fields in February 1798. They went on to have three surviving children who are fairly well documented. Interestingly, their daughter was named Louisa McDermott which are the middle names of Ewen Mackintosh's youngest child Catherine. I have no idea whether that's significant in any way.
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Yes Louisa was still alive at Birnie's death and was his sole legatee.
Children - my guess would be
Christian - mystery - possibly Alexander's daughter, and thus Ewen's sister? Charles - mystery, possibly, but not so likely, similar explanation, or death in childhood after 1810? Alexander Clark doesn't mention an Alexander as a legatee, which could mean he died in childhood. Otherwise, the legatees of 1810 correspond with your list, except for the unnamed infant.
One who does interest me is the William McIntosh, tailor in Gloucester Court. He might be distant or not so distant kin, or possibly even by marriage, to both Alexander Mackintosh and Alexander Clark . And I suppose there's a chance that Alexander Mackenzie in the Adelphi might have married a Mackintosh daughter?
I couldn't find a PCC will for an Alexander Mackintosh, saddler, with a K, which is how folk seemed to have spelt the name, but not Alexander Clark. To be on the safe side, I'll check the other possible spellings. (Another wrinkle on the Scots site is that they allow for varieties of spelling if you want)
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This is getting very close to home. If scotlandspeople is to be trusted the only surviving baptismal records for an Alexander Mackintosh with a K in Scotland between 1730 and 1770 are 4 only in number. They are all in the parish of Petty, which is where I happen to stay, to the east of Inverness. At that time there were a number of Clark families in Petty, two headed by Alexanders, with merchant kin, also Alexanders, in the burgh itself (not to mention the parish clerk and schoolmaster (it was a highly reputable school, very good at Latin, which the Gaelic speakers there are claimed to have conversed in and understood better than English) who was also a Clark, and not to mention Clark kin in the Georgia skin trade. There is still a Sandy Clark farming just east of what is now Inverness Airport. The downside is that the Petty parish register is a mess, and it can't be the only one of its time which was kept in fits and starts in the Inverness area. I think I'll do some more digging first.
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I think I might have a couple of possible McIntoshes. An Alexander of 6 Feb 1734, born to a John and Christian McIntosh (both forenames in Alexander Clark's will) in the burgh, and an Alexander of 7 July 1749 to John McIntosh and Barbara Clark, also in the burgh. There's also an Alexander McIntosh born 11 November to a John McIntosh in Petty - but 1759 might just be a bit late.
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Hmmm, let's see... Ewen Mackintosh was born in 1765, give or take a year or two. I'm fairly certain of that from the age on his burial record. 1734 therefore seems the mostly likely birthdate for Alexander. Do we know he was definitely born in Scotland rather than London?
I'm convinced now I've looked at the will you sent that Ewen and Elizabeth must have had another son, Charles, who was born just before James. They married on the 24th of February 1789 and James wasn't born until the 23rd of August 1792. There was therefore plenty of time for an earlier birth, probably sometime in 1790. In fact I'm so convinced that I'm going to add it to my tree.
Also, I just remembered that, whereas the baptism records I have are from St. Martin's, the couple married at St. Mary's Lambeth. Charles was perhaps baptised there, which is why I have no record for him. I'm guessing he must have died young however, as it appears to have been James who inherited the family business.
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I think it might be safe to assume he was born in Scotland. The witnesses to the baptism were Alexander MacIntosh of Blervie, and an Alexander Mackintosh writer in Edinburgh - I won't be able to check if he was a Writer to the Signet from here, but the Society, if the Librarian is in a good mood, might just tell you, if you ask. Equally you may be near a library which is broadminded enough to hold their printed list. There is a confusion in some contexts between the Mackintoshes of Blervie, who are associated with the Elgin area ( and also with Jamaica - one of the Jamaica Mackintoshes of Blairvie is on record as having married a Duff, related to the Duke of Fife) and the Mackintoshes of Holm, Inverness, who were associated with the early settlement of Georgia, and managed to find a way of preventing the Macgillivrays of Dunmaglass (who seem to have been kin)from being sequestered after Culloden. Either way John Mackintosh, who is simply identified as "merchant" must have had some clout in Inverness, which after Culloden was more or less run by Mackintoshes. A younger son might well become a saddler, and there might even be capital for him in later life. I'll send the record.
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Here's the beginning of my attempt at decipering the will:
This is the last will testa of Alexander Clark of the Haymarket Esq. and gives to ? ? Mr. ? of the Royal Regiment Artillery fifty pounds. To Mrs. Sinclair window of Mr Sinclair of ? two hundred pounds and to Mrs ? ? of the above ? ? ? pounds. To Mr. Alexander Mackintosh two hundred pounds. To wife Christian Mackintosh. To Ewen Clark Mackintosh 100£, to Mary Ann Clark Mackintosh one hundred and ffity pounds. ? to be applied at the situation of my ? at the completing of their education after ? Ewen Clark Mackintosh and Mary Ann Clark Mackintosh to Mrs. Rowland ? ?. to Mr. John Grant ? Merchant of Pimlico fifty pounds, to Mr. Andrew ? of Southampton Street ? pounds. To Mr. ? Cooper artist of Mount Street ? Square fifty pounds. To Charles, James, John, Thomas, Robert and Henry Mackintosh and also to the infant male child of my friend Mr. Ewen Mackintosh ? ? and also to the ? Mr. Ewen Mackintosh the sum of 150 pounds each. To Sir William Ogilvie of Pimlico fifteen ? to Mr William Mackintosh Taylor of Gloster Court St. James twenty five Guineas. To Mr. Alexander ? of Geroge Street Adelphi Taylor fifteen pounds and to his sons ?? and ? ? and pounds oath to ? Clark ? servant of Mr Ewen Mackintosh fifty pounds ? to Mrs Sarah Bailey twenty Guineas to ? ? ? ? and wife ? ? ? Guineas and to my friend Alexander Purrell Anderson ? ? pounds to ? ? Robertson of ? fifty pounds. To ? ? of Lambeth ? pounds. To Mr. William ? of Islington fifty pounds. To Mr ? Anderson of Tortola 30 pounds. To Mrs. Susannah Anderson wife fifteen pounds to Mrs. Charles ?? of ? fifteen Guineas.
That's as far as I can get for now. Am I correct thinking that that's Alexander Mackintosh himself mentioned at the beginning and that he was therefore still alive in 1810? And is that Christian Mackintosh mentioned as his wife? (I'm guessing not, as that doesn't fit with what you've said).
Sounds as if Alexander Clark was staying with the Mackintosh family at the end of his life, as he makes bequests to some of their servants. It's a shame the Haymarket address given doesn't have a number.
I'm also guessing that Ewen Clark Mackintosh and Mary Ann Clark Mackintosh were godchildren, hence why they have Alexander Clark's name and are singled out from their siblings. There is no mention (or have I missed her?) of Hannah Clark Mackintosh who was born in 1800 however. Perhaps she died in childhood. Certainly I have never found any further record of her after her baptism. Ditto with sibling Elizabeth - or is she not mentioned simply because she was female?
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Alexander Fraser (ff=capital F) of the Royal Regiment of Artillery. Mr Sinclair of Petty, I think at the moment, though I'm suspicious of this, as I've never come across any Sinclair in Petty. It's very much a Caithness surname. Having said that, about fifty, all alive in 1810 in Petty, will undoubtedly immediately emerge. (There was a Sinclair at Fort George a little earlier, but a dead one, whose estate the Sheriff substitute Gilzean was engaged in sorting out, and Fort George isn't in Petty). Mrs Fraser, mother of the above Alexander Fraser two hundred pounds. If you take Alexander Mackintosh to have been alive in 1810, (and leaving two hundred pounds to a child you call Mr would be a bit eccentric, though Alexander Clark may well have been putting his will together in a hurry) then Miss Christain (sic) is left all in mid-air without anything - this is probably a lacuna in the copy, and unless another one turns up, the legacy will have to remain a mystery. But her title is clearly "Miss"- although the Clerk's capital M looks like a W, it's a double s at the end of the word. If the Alexander is Alexander Mackintosh himself, it would be logical to put his offspring before Ewen's, though Alexander Clark isn't all that logical later. So I think on balance she may well be Alexander Mackintosh's daughter.
..."these two last legacies to be applied to be applied at the discretion of my executors in the compleating the education of the said Ewen Clark McIntosh and..." "to Mr Rowland ??Warmour?? ??Backhouse?? twenty five pds (best guess, I'm afraid) John Grant wine merchant....Andrew??Dirkin?? of Southampton St Strand (perhaps there's a directory which will clear this up) To Mr Richard Cooper artist Mount Street Berkeley Square ( possibly at a guess someone who helped him with his brother James's executry, which involved a major sale at Christies and the delivery of a number of biggish paintings from Naples. James had wanted his banker and, he thought, his friend, Thomas Coutts of Coutts and Co to do it, but Coutts declined. Which reminds me, Alexander opened an account at Coutts' to do the executry. It might just be worth checking whther Alexander Mackintosh had one with Coutts, who had roots in North East Scotland and links to the Clan Chattan. If he did, and you are a descendant and can convince them you are, their archivist would give you access to it)... child of my friend Ewen Mackintosh now unchristened....the said Ewen Mackintosh... Mr William Ogilvie of Pimlico 15 guineas....Alexander McKenzie of George Street Adelphi and to his daughters (abbreviated "daurs" with a line over the top) Annie and Mary Mackenzie one hundred pounds each...Peggy Clark the servant of Mr Ewen McIntosh five pounds....after Sarah Bailey my best guess is "to Mr Charles Graves, Mr William Graves and Miss Nancy Graves twenty guineas each" - the middle name of Dr Anderson defeats me I'm afraid- Purcell? Purnell? Parnell? none of which seem very Scottish. But he was certainly a nephew of Robert Anderson the Inverness silversmith. And he was left nine hundred pounds.
I can't yet work out where Mr James Robertson came from - yes I can, Limehouse! James Saunders of Lambeth, i think. William Roper of Islington £50. To Mr Andrew Anderson (the silversmith's kin again, I think, of Tortola, To Mrs Hannah Anderson his wife fifteen pounds, and I think the next is Mr Charles Dean of the Temple.... Hope this helps.
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How about Andrew McKie of Southampton Street Strand?
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There is a 1539 reference in the Registers of the Great Seal of Scotland to a Dundas of Potty, quoted in a book about Dundas of Fingask, the full text of which is on the net. But where exactly this Potty may have been I can't find out. I think the Sinclair may be a Sinclair in Potty, and Alexander Clark seems to have known where it might have been. So it's possible that Petty can be ruled out......
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Dr Anderson WAS Alexander Purcell Anderson, it seems - at least a Doctor of that name died in Brighton in 1840.
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Anderson's will confirms (but you have to go through extra-elaborate trust provisions providing for his wife, who seems to have been a Cathcart, and written in broad pen Gothic script first) his Inverness links - there's a legacy to a widow (maiden name I think had been Denoon) of the minister of Moy, which is more or less the territory of the Mackintosh himself.
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Not that it really matters, but for the sake of completeness about Anderson, he is shown in 1805 in the Sun Insurance records (online catalogue National Archives) as insured at a multi-occupied address in Great Portland Street. Easy walk from the Haymarket.
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Gosh, what an impressive amount of information you've found out in such a short space of time! Many thanks for the documents.
So you think that Alexander Mackintosh's wife was an Inverness Clark? In that case, I'm guessing that the couple must have come down to London together. It is entirely possible that Ewen and any siblings he had were born in Inverness as I do not have a baptism record for him. When does the Golden Square correspondence date from?
I'm hopeful that, in time, more BMD information will become available. There are some parish records available online for St. Martin's from the late 1780s onwards but they are patchy. Death records have been the slowest to appear (which makes sense) and the earliest I currently have is from 1824. Perhaps one day we will be able to find out when Alexander Mackintosh died and perhaps who his wife was, as well as confirming the deaths in childhood/infancy of the children we mentioned, and identifying the unnamed male infant.
There is another reference to Alexander Mackintosh here which may or may not interest you (I must confess that I don't fully understand what it is!):
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9XiGZosQxBcJ:calm.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/ArchiveCatalogue/dserve.exe%3FdsqIni%3DDserve.ini%26dsqApp%3DArchive%26dsqCmd%3DBrowse2.tcl%26dsqDb%3DCatalog%26dsqKey%3DRefNo%26dsqItem%3DKP131/3+alexander+mackintosh+sadler+haymarket&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari&source=www.google.co.uk
Other than James who went on to have nine children (seven of them sons), I've so far had little success with tracing any of Ewen and Elizabeth's other children very far. Mary Ann Clark died a spinster in 1832, quite possibly from cholera as you suggest. She was a witness at at least two of her brother's weddings. Catherine Louisa McDermott also died a spinster. Ewen Clark and Henry Alexander of course went to Mexico but I've not yet managed to access any records there. John married in the 1820s but appears to have died very shortly afterwards. Thomas married and had five children but they have proved very difficult to trace.
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I can't find any Inverness burgh marriage after 1750 which might be credible -there's an Alexander Mackintosh for whom Scotlandspeople claims there is no wife registered, but when you look at it, there is just a little cross, which might mean, I suppose, that no marriage took place, and he is described as being "in Essich" which is some way out. Nor is there any Ewen in the baptismal registers, but I didn't try all the possible spellings of Ewen. I will try again for marriages before 1750.
The document is very interesting in fact. If you follow it back into the Cambridgeshire catalogue, it appears to relate to the appointment of a Rev James Mackintosh to the Cambridgeshire parish in question who had previously been a vicar in Dominica - unfortunately the way these postings work i don't seem to be able to refer back to it without losing my draft, so apologies for any errors. I THINK it implies Alexander may have been present at his installation, but I may be mistaken. My guess would be that the document of the 1780s might represent some sort of financial arrangement that Alexander Mackintosh might have backed, though whether he was making a loan on the security of the advowson to two crafty legal men ( or maybe one, since the underage one was probably the patron), or simply guaranteeing security I don't honestly know. £950 is a fair chunk of credit. But it may well be that James Mackintosh was a kinsman of Alexander's. It looks a bit murky, but the twenty-first century has nothing to teach the eighteenth about squeezing every bit out of every possible asset. I think, on the strength of the size of the amount in this reference and the Clarks' connection with Coutts, it might be well worth asking them whether Alexander had an account with them. They do keep what they have. The worst they can say is "No".
I am honestly coming to believe that no-one at all in late eighteenth century Inverness was free of some sort of transatlantic connection to the slave economy. The document's clearly worth following up but I don't know where to start looking for James Mackintosh. The Bishop of London's papers in the Guildhall archives (or the London Metropolitan archives or Lambeth Palace) might have something about the Dominican end, but the London diocese, which ran the colonies, doesn't seem to have been very interested in ancestry per se, and you have to go along and search, since their online catalogues simply list the collections.. However, there's a wonderful grab-bag of Caribbean material called Caribbeana - a turn of the (twentieth century) genealogical periodical which used to be extremely rare, and has now appeared online from the University of Florida and doesn't hide behind a paywall. I'll have a look and see if he turns up in Dominica, though it tends to be the bigger islands which crop up more frequently.
I don't have ( or can't find) here my note of the Golden Square address, except that it was in Sherrard Street. The Cambridgeshire document has him in Haymarket so that puts it back before 1785. I think the source might be one of the burgh documents and my notes on them are in Inverness. Did St Martin's cover Golden Square, or might it have been St Anne's Soho? Sometimes it's worth ringing up Westminster Local History library (if they haven't closed it and sold it off), or their archives. They seem to have a fair spread of directories for late eighteenth and early nineteenth century London.
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Thinking again about Papworth St Agnes. It may be that there is nothing to it, but a simpler explanation is always preferable. The gentleman who is not the Trustee is the patron, still a minor. James Mackintosh, after what looks like 17 years in Dominica, wanted to come back to Britain. He has been ordained in East Anglia, so looking for a parish in that general area had seemed a good idea. The Bishop of Ely would have had to be satisfied he was OK. Perhaps Alexander Mackintosh acted as his agent and fixed all this, which under some head or other might have involved some sort of fee - possibly a "bung" - to the patron. Which amounts to an allegation of simony, so I had better cover my back - call it "expenses". This is still guesswork, of course, and it doesn't explain who James Mackintosh was, but he may well have been born around the late 1740s and I will have a look for him in Inverness. It's not unusual for Invernessians to turn out to have been Episcopalians, though it's usually the local landowners rather than the merchants, in general, though if you scratch an eighteenth century Inverness merchant you generally find he has landowning kin, and if not kin, ambitions.
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James MacIntosh son of John and Christian MacIntosh baptised Inverness in February 1735. So at least one Alexander MacIntosh in Inverness had a brother James. Perhaps this might be the right track. I'll get the document a bit later on and send it. If this is Rev James MacIntosh, he would have been ordained at 35, and been inducted to Papworth St Agnes, which was a very small parish, with, in the nineteenth century, a living worth around £400, at around 52.
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Very interesting! I don't think I ever would have got around to looking into that on my own.
I've searched again for birth records for Ewen Mackintosh in London and for the unnamed infant but without success. I'm convinced it must be possible somehow to access Central London records from the late 1700s/early 1800s online. I may make some enquiries this week...
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Murphy's Law has struck. The IGI family search throws up two possible marriage dates for Alexander the saddler's likely parents - 18 February 1727 in Petty and 9 March 1727 in Inverness. There are also two baptisms of a Christian to them, 7 Sep 1736 and 16 Aug 1742. But perhaps the IGI transcribers were not all that accurate. I will have to check the facsimiles of the registers, which can be accessed in Inverness when I get back there. Interesting if the Petty marriage is right, though as it probably would imply that Christian was from Petty. I think it might be an idea to let it lie for a day or two - and give you a rest - but I'll come back to it sometime next week.
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How annoying! I've never used the IGI site. Perhaps I should give it a try.
I'll see what I can come up with this week too. Funnily enough, I am a member of the bank you mention and will see what their archivist has to say. I would love to be able to go further with tracing Ewen Clark and Henry Alexander in Mexico so may look into that.
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By the way,do let me know if you come across any references to the Bourchiers (the family of Ewen's wife Elizabeth) in any of the documents you have. I've been trying to find details of her parentage for ages.
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Not knowing anything about them, I thought the Bourchiers would turn out to be Huguenots. Not a bit of it. They have a huge English ancestry. One of them married Oliver Cromwell. I don't think I'll get past the Wikipedia pages on them for a bit. But it might be possible to find out what Elizabeth's immediate kin were doing at the time of her marriage.
I think there's just a possibility I may have Alexander the saddler's father's date of birth, thanks to an online partial transcript of the Inverness register by Jane MacGillivray whose main interest is MacGillivray connections. She has also done work on the Petty register, also online. IF it is the right John MacIntosh his father was a James, and brother to Mackintosh of Holm, a smallish Inverness landowner just to the south of the burgh proper, whose family certainly did have MacGillivray connections, and who were involved in burgh affairs over a number of generations (and also in the Darien settlement in Georgia at the end of the 1730s). But it might be a little time before I can confirm (or not) any of that. If it does turn out to be right there might be some difficulty explaining how the Clarks came to be connected. Their mother was, I think, a Mackintosh, but my impression was that she was likely to have been of the Dalmigavie family. But that bridge will have to be crossed when we come to it.
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There's a note above suggesting Elizabeth Bourchier was born in Herefordshire. For what it's worth Rev Edward Bourchier, who seems to have been involved in some way with an estate at Evesham in Worcestershire, (see London Metropolitan Archives) was a vicar in Hertfordshire, or so it would seem. Assuming the absence of a misprint in any of this, I wonder if whoever wrote Herefordshire actually meant Hertfordshire? But the Worcestershire estate(nearer Herefordshire than Hertfordshire) suggests that they probably didn't. However there two Revs Edward Bourchiers in two succeeding generations as Rectors of Bramfield, Hertfordshire, and both seem to be well connected by marriage and ancestry - I found this on a website dedicated to identifying all the descendants of William the Conqueror! I think you indicated where the wedding had taken place, but I'm blowed if I can find it just now. Could you possibly remind me?
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Hi everybody, I am a Mexican historian and I am writing a dissertation about Ewen Clark Mackintosh and his relation with national politicians. But I am interested on recopilate information about his family and his origins. I found out this dialogue and I am wonder if you could help me with my research. For example, where can I find information of his family? I read that one of you have a kind of Mackintosh family tree, and I like to know more about Ewen C. Mackintosh family to understand how did he become a merchant? How did he get relation with Baring Brothers? etc. I am jus starting the research on the link with Britain, and I would like to know where I have to start in british files. Thank you
Regard
GMC
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Hello GMC,
I was very excited to find your message as I would love to be able to find out more about the later life of Ewen Clark Mackintosh and any descendants he has in Mexico.
I am the one with the family tree. Do you have access to the site www.ancestry.co.uk? It is listed on there as 'The Mackintosh Family of Totteridge Lodge, Hertfordshire' (which was the home of Ewen's brother James) and is fully-referenced. As you have probably gathered from this thread, Ewen Clark Mackintosh was the son of Ewen Mackintosh, who owned Mackintosh & Co. Saddle Company. This was passed to him by his father, Alexander Mackintosh. The family lived in Haymarket in Westminster, London and, prior to that, in Golden Square, Soho, London. They are believed to have originated from Inverness in Scotland.
Ewen Clark's brother Henry Alexander Mackintosh also emigrated to Mexico, as did their nephew William Lyster Hay Mackintosh. I'm afraid I don't know a great deal beyond the details of births, marriages and deaths but am happy to help as much as I can.
Best wishes,
Miranda
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Hello Miranda,
Thank you very much for your reply. I don't know the site you mention me, but I'll explore it. I'm not really specialist in family trees, but I like to know more about the family Mackintosh. In Mexico I was able to contact a descendant, but not Ewen Clark, apparently from the side of the family of his brother Henry. She had an interest in knowing more about your family, but had no time to investigate. If you want I can contact her, because he did a little family tree with some documentation of the family in Mexico.
Can I check the tree that you elaborated on the website for free? Is there any chance that you share with me the Mackintosh family tree that you elaborated? My interest on Ewen Clark is related to the business and how he joined politics in Mexico and Britain. The importance that he once had in Mexico was key to the office of consul, but I have the impression that his relationship with Baring Brothers and the British bondholders of the Mexican debt were more influential than his success in business. The few investigations about Ewen Clark indicate that he was very unscrupulous.
Although he was very influential in Mexico, he ended in bankruptcy. So two of the biggest problems for me are the absence of family information and the lack of information of the firm Manning and Mackintosh.
Again thank you very much for the information and hopefully we can continue to share information
Regards
Gabriel
Pd. Sorry about my English :-[
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Dear Gabriel,
Apologies for my slow reply. How have you been getting on? Were you able to find my tree on Ancestry.co.uk? (I am not sure whether you can access it without a paid account). If not, I'll see if I can find another way to get it to you. I would love to hear from Henry's descendants. Do feel free to pass on my details. I am (*).
I don't know much about Manning and Mackintosh I'm afraid, beyond what is recorded in the articles available via a simple Google search, which I'm sure you have found also. If it's of any interest to you however, I do know that Ewen Clark Mackintosh's father, Ewen Mackintosh, also declared himself bankrupt. Yet, interestingly, this does not appear to have affected his lifestyle greatly. He continued to live in his impressive home in Westminster (nextdoor to today's Theatre Royal) and passed his business on to his son James. I've also often wondered whether Manning was any relation of Cardinal Manning, whose family lived in the small village of Totteridge Hertfordshire where the Mackintoshes later moved.
I know that Ewen Clark Mackintosh had three sons - Albert Ewen, Charles, and Francesco Xavier (they all came back to England to attend Harrow and are recorded on the school register which is also available on Ancestry.co.uk). Do you know if he had any further children and what became of them?
Best wishes,
Miranda
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
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Hi Miranda,
The Moderator remove your personal information because of Rootchat privacy. I am new in Rootchat, so I am not available to send you a Personal Message. Could you send me and email with your information, please?
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I found your references here to the Inverness silversmith Robert Anderson, and am hoping someone might help me shed some light on this particular person. I am trying to research either his son or nephew by the same name, also an Inverness silversmith, who migrated to the United States, arriving in Knoxville, Tennessee by 1819. So far I can't find any genealogical records on Anderson in Scotland to verify who the younger man actually was in relation to him. Any assistance in identifying this Scottish-American silversmith would be ever so helpful.
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For Fitzhugh - you will probably have this, but in case not, the Inverness Hammermen's minutes are available on the Website Am Baillie, and googling Robert Anderson silversmith Inverness will get you there and show you that in 1760 Robert Anderson senior was boxmaster - i.e treasurer - to the hammermen, though he is described as a goldsmith. The Inverness Museum holds samples of his work and his hallmark is online. There is a warrant sale of 1763 of the estate and possessions of John Clark, a farmer at Millburn, Inverness, occasioned by Clark's son-in-law, and executor, a former Bo'ness shipowner, Andrew Anderson, residenter in Leith, who may have been kin to Robert Anderson( who certainly was an incomer to Inverness from Edinburgh) (Inverness Commissary Court Inventory and minute of sale May 1764 CC/11/1/6/106-113, obtainable from Scotlands People) Robert Anderson senior owned property at the south end, east side, of Church Street Inverness, which was purchased by the Inverness Magistrates who were also the promoters of Inverness Royal Academy around 1789 as a possible site for their building, but later in 1789 sold to the gentry who had founded The Northern Meeting in Inverness, and became the site of their Rooms (including their ballroom). This would tend to indicate that Robert Anderson senior was by then dead, and would also seem to conf irm the possibility that a son emigrated.
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There is a possible Robert Anderson born to a Robert Anderson and Katherine Hossack in Inverness in 1756. There had been a Provost Hossack in Inverness in the 1730s who was involved with the arrangements to emigrate Highlanders to Georgia in 1739. I haven't checked Scotland's People for a record, but the date seems plausible, since Robert Anderson, goldsmith would have taken some time to establish himself with the Hammermen's Corporation. He was also in the 1760, I think, RWM of one of the two Freemason's Lodges.
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Sorry - the 1756 Robert Anderson born in Inverness to Robert Anderson and Katherine Hossack was the son of a WEAVER, not a goldsmith. Doesn't stop him being apprenticed to a namesake of course, and since the tax records on apprenticeships survive it might be worth looking. It might also be worth going through Edinburgh goldsmiths and silversmiths of the 1740s and 1750s, and checking Andersons in Bo'ness, though from the Scotlands People birth lists there were probably more than one Anderson families there.
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More Apologies. Robert Anderson goldsmith Inverness was NOT an Edinburgh incomer - I had a note he was, but his Testament of 1800 flatly contradicts this. He was the son of James Anderson of Knocknagael, Inverness, and Elizabeth Gordon. No date of birth given in the Testament and the date of death is left blank in the Inverness Commissariat record. His brother was James Anderson, shipmaster London, later of the Island of Tortola. Nephews, sons of James Anderson shipmaster, were Andrew Anderson, planter, late of Tortola, presently in Durham and Dr Alexander Purcell Anderson, physician in Huntingdon. James Anderson shipmaster and planter is named as Trustee for Janet Anderson, Katherine Anderson otherways Livingston (she had married a baker called Alexander Livingston in Inverness), and Rebecca Anderson lawful children of James Anderson of Knocknagael. A further Trustee had been James Falconer, late tacksman of Drakies, Inverness.
The main outstanding debt listed in the Inventory was a bond due from Sir Alexander Grant of Dalvey, Jamaica millionaire, a major figure in the slave trade and late MP for the Inverness Burghs
which would seem to have been due to James Anderson of Knocknagael.
The testament doesn't seem to settle whether or not Robert Anderson had known offspring.
As it happens, the Tortola Andersons were contacts of Alexander Clark, brother of the Inverness paiter and dealer in Greek antiquities, James Clark in Naples.
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Thanks for that clarification. Now I'm really stumped as to this second generation silversmith by the same name from the same locale. It would appear he was not a nephew, but still could have been a son?
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What were your sources for his Inverness origin and parentage? There is an issue involving the whole family in Inverness as it then was in 1800 which meant that the surviving sons of James Anderson (Robert's brother) had to register inventories for their (deceased) uncles and aunts in relation to Grant of Dalvey's bond, which probably meant that his estate wasn't paying up and they needed to register a title to it. None of the inventories,though the Commissaries of Inverness and Edinburgh accept them as testaments dative, has a date of death for any of them, so Robert Anderson probably didn't die in 1800, but at some earlier date - I would guess around 1788 - and there would not necessarily have been a testament as such. Unfortunately one of the Inverness Burgh registers of Deeds from about that time is missing so even if he registered a disposal of his estate it might not survive. There is a birth date from Robert's brother, James Anderson (1729), and for a Ludovic Anderson, an elder brother, but none for Robert or, as far as I can see, any sisters.
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James Anderson senior of Knocknagael must have been dead by 1753, as in that year Ludovic (who in 1733 is described in a document quoted by Dobson as a squarewright in Inverness) in 1753 is described in a claim against Lovat under the Forfeited Estates Act as minister (?) in Inverness and eldest son of the deceased James Anderson of Knocknagael. The date of Grant of Dalvey's bond is given in the dcuments of 1800 as 1766. The right to it in liferent seems to have lain with Elizabeth Gordon, James's widow. Since the leading Inverness merchant Gilbert Gordon, who himself had a son called Ludovic, was a witness at Ludovic's baptism, it's possible that Elizabeth may have been of the same branch of the the Gordons. Not that any of this helps, probably.
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A few facts that might help clarify some of these relationships:
A certain Alexander Mackenzie, tailor, and his wife Sarah Mansfield had children baptized between 1787 and 1807 at Marylebone and Holborn: Margaret, Mary, Sarah, Jabez, Hannah, Philip, and Euphemia.
This Alexander appears to be the (half?) brother of Lieut.-Col. Jabez Mackenzie of the Bengal Establishment. They were sons of Lady Mary Mackenzie, daughter of the 3rd Earl of Cromarty. Both took their mother's surname. Alexander's paternity is unclear to me at this time (he seems to have been born several years before his mother's first marriage -- i.e. was illegitimate), but Jabez was Lady Mary's son by a certain Robert Clark(e) whom she married in 1750.
Lady Mary Mackenzie married four times, first to Robert Clarke, then to Thomas Drayton, then to John Ainslie, and finally to Henry Middleton. The latter three were of South Carolina.
The Charleston Morning Post, 5 Jun 1786, records the arrival of "A. M'Kenzie, Esq; son of Lady Mary Middleton by a former marriage".
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I finally located the will of the father-in-law of Alexander McKenzie. He was John Manfield, Gentleman of Saint John Hampstead, and his 1812 will is available through the National Archives and on TheGenealogist.com as well as Ancestry. His widow was Elizabeth, but she seems to have been his second wife, his first being Mary Byrchmore. The will mentions two children, John Manfield and Sarah the wife of Alexander Mackenzie, as well as a granddaughter Mary Mackenzie.
Mary Mackenzie was born in 1789, according to the Holborn Lying-In hospital records, to Alexander Mackenzie, "Taylor" of "Dumphries" (no doubt Dumfries?) and his wife Sarah. At the births of their next few children, Alexander is again described as a "Taylor" but of St Marylebone instead of Dumfries.
It seems clear to me that the Mary Mackenzie born in 1789 and mentioned in her grandfather John Manfield's will is the same Mary Mackenzie, daughter of the tailor Alexander Mackenzie, mentioned in Alexander Clark's will. I have yet to find any kind of birth or Baptismal record for her sister Anne. In fact, Alexander Clark's will is the only reference to her I can find. I would like to know more about her. That her name was mentioned before Mary's in Alexander Clark's will suggests she was older than Mary, but her absence from John Manfield's will is noted. Did she die before that will? Or was she born to another consort before Alexander Mackenzie's marriage to Sarah Manfield and thus unrelated to John Manfield? Christening records also show a daughter Margaret Mackenzie born in 1787 who is mentioned in neither of the two wills. What happened to her?
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Hi Haninger7
Might I suggest you start a new topic if you are now looking for something else.
This topic started in 2011, runs to a very wordy 7 pages and to be honest, even I didn't re-read what has gone before as it didn't keep my interest. It started off looking for burials in St Martins in the Fields and has moved on somewhat.
If you do start a new topic please copy and paste the URL from the top of the screen for this topic into the new one.
Dawn